Poll: Subtitle positioning in wider ratio (2.20+) movies on Sony Blu-ray Discs

[Truewitt]

Originally Posted by Suntory_Times

subtitles in picture ALWAYS. Though they could include multiple subtitle tracks or the ability to position them in screen etc. It really would not add any real cost as extra subtitle tracks are small.

Trust me, as Penton stated above, it would add significant cost. Production of the subtitles, authoring, QC. And nobody wants text subtitles...

[Kal El]

Please keep the subtitles in the active image area of the film.

[Blaumann]

Best option for me in the poll: Place all subtitles inside the active picture all the time.

Two reasons:

a, for me it makes is easier to "follow the film", as you don't have to look outside the actual picture in order to read the subtitles.

b, on a CIH (constant image height) setup, the black bars are usually cut off and therefore subtitles displayed in the black bars are no longer displayed as well.

Best option for subtitles would be the ability to position them rather freely inside the frame. Which one can do e.g. with a htpc and an external subtitle track. I have no idea, how this could be integrated in Blu-ray players and what the authoring side for the individual BD allows.

[Drexler]

Definately keep them in the picture.
As posted before:

i) You don't have to scan your eyes up and down between the subs and the picture

and

ii) You would allow people to have functioning subs with cinemascope screens

By the way: I don't understand why it would be so expensive to have two versions of the subs???

The subs take very little space and it would hardly require any effort to do the second one. It's just to take the first and shift it in height right? Someone should be able to do that in a minute?

[Eternal_Sunshine]

As a CIH guy, I voted for option 1 (Place all subtitles inside the active picture all the time), of course.

I really hope this poll will make a difference; right now I have actually stopped to import Sony (and Warner) BDs specifically because of the subtitle placement.

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by saprano

But doesn't having to look down at the words then back up at the screen bother you?

If its in the picture your eyes are still focused on the movie.

Exactly. This is a key point. If you watch a 3 hour movie, especially on a large screen, it is indeed tiresome to move your eyes on to the black bar and back on to the picture. By doing this you would lose concentration or the focus on the picture especially if your screen is large. If you watch only few minutes with subs you cannot really appreciate the problem - you really need to read the subs for a reasonable amount of time to fully appreciate the problem. Once subs are within the picture frame it gets integrated with the picture and reading becomes seamless. And also you would really forget that you are reading the subs.

Please consider this fact when you vote. You may acquire a large display in the future if you don't have one today. If you already have a large screen you will go for even larger screen in few years down the track. Then this will definitely be a problem if you happen to watch a long movie with subtitles.

Please note the fact that black bar subs is a nightmare for the blackbar haters since subs appear in the black void that they wish to forget about. Blackbar hating is psychological condition and I think everyone should sympathize about the people suffer from this condition. This is one of the reasons that millions of people around the world hit the zoom button to get rid of the blackbars.

[jbmonster]

Please ...please ...please - all subs should be placed IN the active picture area (same as Theaters do)

[David Giles]

And it really sucks when you have the ability to get rid of those annoying black bars with masking, but you lose half (or all) of the subtitles in the process. Subtitles in the picture!

David Giles

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Eternal_Sunshine

As a CIH guy, I voted for option 1 (Place all subtitles inside the active picture all the time), of course.

I really hope this poll will make a difference; right now I have actually stopped to import Sony (and Warner) BDs specifically because of the subtitle placement.

FWIW,
The other poll did in regards to our decision making process……..
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....=1#post2044794

[Eternal_Sunshine]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

FWIW,
The other poll did in regards to our decision making process……..
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....=1#post2044794

Yeah, I noticed that! Which is why I'm extremely psyched about this poll!

For folks that don't follow Penton's insider thread closely: he initiated a poll on blu-ray.com before regarding user preference for DTS HD MA vs. Dolby TrueHD. The votes are in and apparently are indeed helping to change Sony's future policy wrt lossless audio tracks (see Penton's link above)!

Thus with the current subs poll we have the rare chance to get our voice heard by one of the top Hollywood studios and really make a difference! Which is just amazing.

[aramis109]

My biggest issue with subtitles in the frame has always been readability. If studios can create the subtitles in the frame in a readable format, I'd prefer that. The ones that do it best seem to be the ones that are white lettering with a thin black border around them. This way, no matter what is behind them, they are readable. I think Apocalypto was one that does it that way.

If studios can do this, then awesome- throw them in the frame. I know this'll help the CIH'ers out there. But if they're unreadable, they're useless to everyone.

[Spymaster]

This is an issue VERY important to me!

Well there are two answers:

1. When talking about theatrical captions, such as those translating Klingon to English in the Star Trek movies, or Russian to English in Air Force One the subtitles should be transferred exactly from the theatrical print at all times. (Thus they would be over the film image).

2. For subtitles added by the player, e.g. for the hard of hearing, they should be part of the film frame.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Spymaster

This is an issue VERY important to me!

Well there are two answers:

1. When talking about theatrical captions, such as those translating Klingon to English in the Star Trek movies, or Russian to English in Air Force One the subtitles should be transferred exactly from the theatrical print at all times. (Thus they would be over the film image).

2. For subtitles added by the player, e.g. for the hard of hearing, they should be part of the film frame.

The problem with that the subtitles are an added optical which degrades picture quality. Movies these days are not transferred from theatrical prints.

You could also argue they are over the film image theatrically because there are no black bars to put them in.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

The problem with that the subtitles are an added optical which degrades picture quality. Movies these days are not transferred from theatrical prints.

You could also argue they are over the film image theatrically because there are no black bars to put them in.

I doubt it that they're still doing subtitles optically.

I voted for one line in the black bar, and the other above it. I just think it looks better when it's as low as possible, although I understand it's annoying for the CIH folks who use subtitles.

[4K2K]

This poll doesn't include the subtitling options I would have liked, so please ignore the vote I made.

[Nasty N8]

Defiantly in the active picture at all times helps not only us with CIH scope screens but the guys that use masking to cover black bars.

Nate

[Spymaster]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

The problem with that the subtitles are an added optical which degrades picture quality. Movies these days are not transferred from theatrical prints.

You could also argue they are over the film image theatrically because there are no black bars to put them in.

Even if they did degrade picture quality - which doesn't seem to be the case with the Bond BDs which, so far, have contained all of their theatrical subs - surely they would only do so for the relevant scenes.

I would rather a slight decrease in quality if the theatrical "look" of the movie - including the theatrical captions - was retained.

But as I say, I doubt any decrease in quality would be evident.

ORIGINAL THEATRICAL CAPTIONS is the only acceptable solution! Anything else takes me out of the movie and THAT is a far worse crime than a possible - maybe - slight difference in PQ.

[Steve]

I would prefer the subtitles were located exclusively within the black bar, if there is enough space for them that is. There have been a few times when the subtitles are hard to read against a light background and I don't like that.

[CarlosMeat]

I voted it in the active area. My theater room has a CIH set up.

[clehner]

Originally Posted by CarlosMeat

I voted it in the active area. My theater room has a CIH set up.

Same here, thanks.