MPI's "Baraka" freezes/skips in BDP-S550

[EG Ryan]

Originally Posted by kevhaw

It just occurred to me that the Sony S350 is an entry-level player. I'm wondering if the error correction circuitry is just too basic to handle warped discs?
I wonder how this disc would fare on the lastest Pioneer Elite blu-ray player? That jewel must be able to compensate for minor warpage...

Earlier in this thread I noticed someone with a PS3 was having a similar freezing/skipping problem with this disc.

[Bobby Henderson]

A lot of people have mentioned the shrink wrap being a possible culprit if the disc is somehow being warped. I think the issue may be the paperboard sleeve that covers only part of the disc. That causes some bending of the disc. Really bad packaging design.

[EG Ryan]

Since it seems like most are having the freezing-up issue at the same spot in the movie (1Hr 13Min 20Sec), to me it seems it would be unlikely a physical defect in the disc caused by the flimsy packaging. What are the odds everyone's disc is damaged in the exact same spot on the disc?

It probably is some sort of manufacturing problem/defect that some players are susceptible to. Is it a problem with the original master for the disc? If so, we're all screwed until they make a new master. Is it a problem with a certain batch of discs? If that's the case, I guess keep exchanging your copy until you get one without the defect.

Any thoughts on this?

[EG Ryan]

Originally Posted by EG Ryan

...to me it seems it would be unlikely a physical defect in the disc caused by the flimsy packaging.

What I meant to type is:
"...to me it seems it would be unlikely a physical defect in the disc caused by the flimsy packaging would be the cause of this problem."

Sorry, I just woke up!

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by EG Ryan

Since it seems like most are having the freezing-up issue at the same spot in the movie (1Hr 13Min 20Sec), to me it seems it would be unlikely a physical defect in the disc caused by the flimsy packaging. What are the odds everyone's disc is damaged in the exact same spot on the disc?

It probably is some sort of manufacturing problem/defect that some players are susceptible to. Is it a problem with the original master for the disc? If so, we're all screwed until they make a new master. Is it a problem with a certain batch of discs? If that's the case, I guess keep exchanging your copy until you get one without the defect.

Any thoughts on this?

I agree. I doubt warping is the issue either. If everyones discs warped, the freezing/skipping would occur in random chapters.

[kevhaw]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

I agree. I doubt warping is the issue either. If everyones discs warped, the freezing/skipping would occur in random chapters.

Well, my second copy does freeze up a couple of minutes before the infamous mark.
When these discs are manufactured, I'm sure it's an assemby-line process. As one poster suggested...the disc might be warping where it's not protected by the cardboard. That would suggest it would warp at nearly the exact same spot on all copies.
Another poster also mentioned that his copy froze at a different mark. My LG BH200 was putting concentric scrape marks on my first copy of Baraka. Why would that happen if the disc wasn't warped? There's nothing wrong with the player and it's never scraped any other dvd that I've played in it. Stands to reason the disc is warped and the laser pickup is hitting it at least in that particular player.
It's a known fact that shrinkwrap warps discs. In the laserdisc days, you HAD to remove the shrinkwrap completely from the jacket when you opened up a new movie. Laserdiscs were in thin cardboard jackets. If you didn't, the shrinkwrap would continue to contract and over time, the laserdisc would be warped. A laserdisc is a huge heavy object compared to a tiny dvd. If shrinkwrap could warp a laserdisc, it can warp a dvd.
It's not common for dvds to be in cardboard sleeves. Most are in hard plastic keepcases which prevent warpage.
I still think warpage is the issue. On Sony's regular dvd players, they advertise that their laser pickups can compensate for disc warpage... I'm sure I read that somewhere. I have no idea if the S350 has that capability.
I will try my disc again in a few days. If it still acts up, I may try an old laserdisc trick... place the disc between two sheets of glass and let it flatten out over time. I unwarped many a laserdisc that way, back in the day.

[EG Ryan]

Originally Posted by kevhaw

Well, my second copy does freeze up a couple of minutes before the infamous mark.
When these discs are manufactured, I'm sure it's an assemby-line process. As one poster suggested...the disc might be warping where it's not protected by the cardboard. That would suggest it would warp at nearly the exact same spot on all copies.
Another poster also mentioned that his copy froze at a different mark. My LG BH200 was putting concentric scrape marks on my first copy of Baraka. Why would that happen if the disc wasn't warped? There's nothing wrong with the player and it's never scraped any other dvd that I've played in it. Stands to reason the disc is warped and the laser pickup is hitting it at least in that particular player.
It's a known fact that shrinkwrap warps discs. In the laserdisc days, you HAD to remove the shrinkwrap completely from the jacket when you opened up a new movie. Laserdiscs were in thin cardboard jackets. If you didn't, the shrinkwrap would continue to contract and over time, the laserdisc would be warped. A laserdisc is a huge heavy object compared to a tiny dvd. If shrinkwrap could warp a laserdisc, it can warp a dvd.
It's not common for dvds to be in cardboard sleeves. Most are in hard plastic keepcases which prevent warpage.
I still think warpage is the issue. On Sony's regular dvd players, they advertise that their laser pickups can compensate for disc warpage... I'm sure I read that somewhere. I have no idea if the S350 has that capability.
I will try my disc again in a few days. If it still acts up, I may try an old laserdisc trick... place the disc between two sheets of glass and let it flatten out over time. I unwarped many a laserdisc that way, back in the day.

In regards to the warping being caused in the same spot due to packaging, is every disc placed in the package from the factory in the exact same orientation (e.g. Is the disc "right-side-up", "up-side-down", or sideways in the package)?

I can't say for sure, but I thought I remembered one of my two copies had the disc placed in the cardboard sleeve rotated 90 degrees from vertical.

I'm not saying that there is no warping, but could this be the cause of the movie freezing in almost the exact same spot in time?

[EG Ryan]

By the way, I placed my disc flat on my tile counter and there appears to be no warping (at least to my eye).

[kevhaw]

Originally Posted by EG Ryan

By the way, I placed my disc flat on my tile counter and there appears to be no warping (at least to my eye).

Try both sides of the disc. Try gently pressing on the center hole on each side to see if there is any give.
On a small dvd, the warping will be much less visible versus a large laserdisc. I'd be able to slide a nickel under the center hole on a laserdisc. If a nickel easily slid under the center hole, then I knew it was too warped to play properly.
I looked at my copy under a bright light, comparing both sides, and to my eye, there was the very slightest curvature of the disc.

[kevhaw]

Another point that I never mentioned....when I first went looking for Baraka, on the strength of Roger Ebert's review, I was taken aback by the packaging. I could SEE a slight curve in the cardboard jackets, caused by the shrink wrap. This worried me. I grabbed all the copies that they had and looked for the flattest one!
So, I was worried about warpage before I even first spun the disc and encountered the issue, and before I discovered this forum.
I don't have ESP, just experience from the old laserdisc days. In those days, a cardboard package with a curve in it meant the possibility of trouble.
My fears about the curve in the cardboard packaging translated to a real-world issue that others are also experiencing. Just a fluke?
I don't think so myself...

[Guy R]

Originally Posted by EG Ryan

Since it seems like most are having the freezing-up issue at the same spot in the movie (1Hr 13Min 20Sec), to me it seems it would be unlikely a physical defect in the disc caused by the flimsy packaging. What are the odds everyone's disc is damaged in the exact same spot on the disc?

Any thoughts on this?

I totally agree. If it's in the same spot it is a disc defect from manufacturing. Some players are more susceptible to this defect than others.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by kevhaw

Well, my second copy does freeze up a couple of minutes before the infamous mark.
When these discs are manufactured, I'm sure it's an assemby-line process. As one poster suggested...the disc might be warping where it's not protected by the cardboard. That would suggest it would warp at nearly the exact same spot on all copies.
Another poster also mentioned that his copy froze at a different mark. My LG BH200 was putting concentric scrape marks on my first copy of Baraka. Why would that happen if the disc wasn't warped? There's nothing wrong with the player and it's never scraped any other dvd that I've played in it. Stands to reason the disc is warped and the laser pickup is hitting it at least in that particular player.
It's a known fact that shrinkwrap warps discs. In the laserdisc days, you HAD to remove the shrinkwrap completely from the jacket when you opened up a new movie. Laserdiscs were in thin cardboard jackets. If you didn't, the shrinkwrap would continue to contract and over time, the laserdisc would be warped. A laserdisc is a huge heavy object compared to a tiny dvd. If shrinkwrap could warp a laserdisc, it can warp a dvd.
It's not common for dvds to be in cardboard sleeves. Most are in hard plastic keepcases which prevent warpage.
I still think warpage is the issue. On Sony's regular dvd players, they advertise that their laser pickups can compensate for disc warpage... I'm sure I read that somewhere. I have no idea if the S350 has that capability.
I will try my disc again in a few days. If it still acts up, I may try an old laserdisc trick... place the disc between two sheets of glass and let it flatten out over time. I unwarped many a laserdisc that way, back in the day.

I dont believe it is your player....but it is not a warping issue. There IS a problem with the discs....just not warping. There is a flaw of some type in the data.

[kevhaw]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

I dont believe it is your player....but it is not a warping issue. There IS a problem with the discs....just not warping. There is a flaw of some type in the data.

I just took a look in the AVS Forum and other S350 owner's are complaining also.
One guy agrees with me, here is a cut and paste:
__________________________________________________ _______________
I have a Sony BDP-S350 and I'm having (had) the same problem with the Baraka Blu-ray. Play back was freezing up between chapter 18 and 19 which is around 72 minutes into the film. I think I solved the problem and you can read about it here:

http://nodef.blogspot.com/2008/10/ba...g-problem.html

Quick summary is that the cardboard case is warping the disc. Put the Blu-ray disc in a CD jewel case and wait 12 hours. It worked for me. Now I'm trying it with a second broken Baraka disc I have.
__________________________________________________ ______________
I'll try my copy. I've had it in a spare blu-ray case for several days now. I'm hoping it's dewarped enough. But, warping issues can vary, the longer a disc is warped by shrinkwrap, the longer it will take to dewarp.

[kevhaw]

Gang,
I just tried my copy of Baraka. Plays just perfectly now. Sailed through the trouble spots with nary a glitch.
Ergo, the discs ARE warped because of the cardboard packaging.
Fellow S350 owners... put your copy of Baraka in a cd jewel case or a dvd case. Wait a few days.
Problem solved..
It's a warpage issue, not a data issue.
Sorry SquidPuppet!

[EG Ryan]

Originally Posted by kevhaw

Gang,
I just tried my copy of Baraka. Plays just perfectly now. Sailed through the trouble spots with nary a glitch.
Ergo, the discs ARE warped because of the cardboard packaging.
Fellow S350 owners... put your copy of Baraka in a cd jewel case or a dvd case. Wait a few days.
Problem solved..
It's a warpage issue, not a data issue.
Sorry SquidPuppet!

I left my "Baraka" disc in a CD jewel case for 15 hours, took it out and played it, and it still froze in the same spot (1hr 13min 20sec).

Maybe, if warping is the problem, I didn't let the disc sit long enough? I may let it sit for a couple days more (although some have said 12 hours is long enough), or I might just exchange it (again) for a new copy and see what happens.

More to follow...

[blick]

Originally Posted by kevhaw

I just took a look in the AVS Forum and other S350 owner's are complaining also.
One guy agrees with me, here is a cut and paste:
__________________________________________________ _______________
I have a Sony BDP-S350 and I'm having (had) the same problem with the Baraka Blu-ray. Play back was freezing up between chapter 18 and 19 which is around 72 minutes into the film. I think I solved the problem and you can read about it here:

http://nodef.blogspot.com/2008/10/ba...g-problem.html

Quick summary is that the cardboard case is warping the disc. Put the Blu-ray disc in a CD jewel case and wait 12 hours. It worked for me. Now I'm trying it with a second broken Baraka disc I have.
__________________________________________________ ______________
I'll try my copy. I've had it in a spare blu-ray case for several days now. I'm hoping it's dewarped enough. But, warping issues can vary, the longer a disc is warped by shrinkwrap, the longer it will take to dewarp.

That link results in a "Page not found" error, must of been a copy-n-paste thing. The correct link is:

http://nodef.blogspot.com/2008/10/ba...g-problem.html

Cardboad cases warping Blu-rays? So much for the environmentally green packaging!

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by kevhaw

Gang,
I just tried my copy of Baraka. Plays just perfectly now. Sailed through the trouble spots with nary a glitch.
Ergo, the discs ARE warped because of the cardboard packaging.
Fellow S350 owners... put your copy of Baraka in a cd jewel case or a dvd case. Wait a few days.
Problem solved..
It's a warpage issue, not a data issue.
Sorry SquidPuppet!

Glad its working for you now.

[kevhaw]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

Glad its working for you now.

Thanks SquidPuppet!
I think that you must leave the disc in a jewel case for a couple of days. I remember now when I had my first copy... it did behave better after it was out of the shrink wrap for several hours, but it still froze up. When I say "behaved better"... originally when I first played it and chapter skipped after the lady-in-the-water segment, it was freezing up and pixelating where the tall fellow was jumping up and down. After fooling around with the disc for several hours, I WAS able to play the "jumping up and down" segment fine.
Historically when it comes to warped discs, the longer it was in shrinkwrap, the more it's warped, the longer it needs to unwarp.
I really think this problem will solve itself for the vast majority of S350 owners.
I don't know if this matters or not, but when I put my second copy in a dvd case I layed it down flat to unwarp.

[EG Ryan]

Originally Posted by kevhaw

Thanks SquidPuppet!
I think that you must leave the disc in a jewel case for a couple of days. I remember now when I had my first copy... it did behave better after it was out of the shrink wrap for several hours, but it still froze up. When I say "behaved better"... originally when I first played it and chapter skipped after the lady-in-the-water segment, it was freezing up and pixelating where the tall fellow was jumping up and down. After fooling around with the disc for several hours, I WAS able to play the "jumping up and down" segment fine.
Historically when it comes to warped discs, the longer it was in shrinkwrap, the more it's warped, the longer it needs to unwarp.
I really think this problem will solve itself for the vast majority of S350 owners.
I don't know if this matters or not, but when I put my second copy in a dvd case I layed it down flat to unwarp.

Well, I got my third copy of "Baraka" today. Did my exchange for this copy at a different Best Buy in my area (Sacramento, CA). My first two copies which froze up while playing (@ 1Hr 13min 20sec) were from Best Buy, too.

Pulled the disc out of the cardboard sleeve, placed it directly into my Sony BDP-BX1, and the results were even worse than the other two discs. Ch. 19 won't even start to play. I tried playing Ch. 18, it started playing, and then it began to skip. (**Heavy sigh!**)

I've placed the "Baraka" disc into a CD jewel case, will leave it on the shelf for a few days, and then I will try to play it again. I'll see if letting the disc "relax" for awhile will solve anything.

Again, more to follow...

[wafi]

I guess the next question will be where does one find blank blu-ray cases then? I am gonna try out what others have suggested, was about to go return it this weekend.