Does Blu-ray HAVE to equal high definition?

[Verner Delleholm]

All movies and TV shows ect. on Blu-Ray is high definition, 720p or 1080p, right? Does it HAVE to be high definition? For example, it would be very convenient to put all 24 episodes of a TV show in standard definition on a single BD, instead of 3-4-5 DVDs. I know it could create a little confusion, on whether the product you're buying is HD or not, but this should be solvable with a sticker on the box exclaiming what resolution the video is in.

Alternatively, you can put SD content in extremely high bitrate on Blu-Rays.

So what I'm really asking, is there any hope for ever seeing non-HD stuff on Blu-Rays?

[blu_sharpy]

As good a point as you make about putting a whole series on one disc, it will never really hit off. It would be completely pointless as there would be no upgrade and the consumer would just shrug off the product. People expect Hi-Def to be 1080p and to stick SD Content on a BD would be unacceptable.
To answer your question, yes we do see NON-HD content on BD's in the form of extra content (special features), but we will never see the main content in SD on a BD as it would be a complete waste of the companies time and resources.

Also ---- Putting SD content on a BD and upping the Bitrate would make no difference what so ever to the quality.

[Verner Delleholm]

It wouldn't be completely pointless, you wouldn't have to switch discs all the time, and the box will take up less space. But yeah... Guess it isn't good enough points to confuse cosumers. Too bad.

[blu_sharpy]

I completely agree with you that it would be a good idea but there would be quite a few factors to contend with.
1. A whole series on one disc would result in compression artifacting and issues.
2. There would be little to no room for any special features.
3. Obviously confusing consumers would be a huge factor.

But, point 1 is probably the most important when it comes to your question.

[John72953]

Blu-ray Disc is synonymous with HD content. The confusion it would create in the marketplace to do as you suggested would be mind-boggling.

Blu-ray Disc is about quality NOT convenience!

John

[blu_sharpy]

Well said John

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by blu_sharpy

Also ---- Putting SD content on a BD and upping the Bitrate would make no difference what so ever to the quality.

Yes it would haha. Do you not see all of the compression artifacts DVDs are covered with?

But yeah, in addition to what has already been pointed out, season sets are able to sell at high prices because people see multiple discs and feel like they're getting value out of it. If they put 30 hours of content on a single disc, people will be less likely to spend the high prices on it, because in their minds, it's "just one disc" and "one disc is cheap to make so it should be cheap for me to buy!"

It's perceived value. It's the same reason why so many movies sell "special editions" with multiple discs when they could, in reality, put all the content on less discs.

[recS-12]

I agree, the BD name HAS to equal 1080p to the consumer on no need for average Joe to upgrade, EVER. However, I still think these discs are capable of so much more on them then were getting. Aren't they capable of holding 50gb???

[rlf3911]

Blu-ray discs arent just for movies. Putting an entire season of a TV show on one disc would be awesome, and is completely possible.

Dvds quality looks fine played through a PS3, no problem with me.

[John72953]

Originally Posted by recS-12

I agree, the BD name HAS to equal 1080p to the consumer on no need for average Joe to upgrade, EVER. However, I still think these discs are capable of so much more on them then were getting. Aren't they capable of holding 50gb???

Just so you understand.....BD at 720p/1080i is still HD and perfectly acceptable, especially on a smaller HDTV. There is no doubt 1080p is preferable, but I did want to point that out.

John

[blu_sharpy]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Yes it would haha. Do you not see all of the compression artifacts DVDs are covered with?

How would sticking say 24 episodes on one disc help to remove any compression artifacting?

[krazeyeyez]

Originally Posted by blu_sharpy

How would sticking say 24 episodes on one disc help to remove any compression artifacting?

Would it not depend on the series in question and the amount of dvd's the current release is on? Not to mention how much space is available on a blu-ray now let alone what is possible with the future of the tech.

I don't see this as being anything we will see soon. But once blu-ray disc price drops, and the format becomes the standard i would not be surprised to see some shows released in this manner. Heck haven't there already been blu-rays released at 720p and 1080i purposely, like not as an error. Why an SD release is out of the question i don't understand, i mean i see why not right now (j6p confusion), but down the road if i am not gonna get to see star trek tng in HD i wouldn't mind seeing it all on one or two discs.

[blu_sharpy]

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

Would it not depend on the series in question and the amount of dvd's the current release is on? Not to mention how much space is available on a blu-ray now let alone what is possible with the future of the tech.

I don't see this as being anything we will see soon. But once blu-ray disc price drops, and the format becomes the standard i would not be surprised to see some shows released in this manner. Heck haven't there already been blu-rays released at 720p and 1080i purposely, like not as an error. Why an SD release is out of the question i don't understand, i mean i see why not right now, but down the road if i am not gonna get to see star trek tng in HD i wouldn't mind seeing it all on one or two discs.

Doesnt that then defy the point of HD and Blu-ray Discs. I know by putting everything on one disc you wouldnt have to 'swap' discs but by putting them on there in SD defies the point of BD, you might aswell just stick with the DVD.
720p and 1080i are all HD resolutions its just 1080p is preferred.

[krazeyeyez]

Originally Posted by blu_sharpy

Doesnt that then defy the point of HD and Blu-ray Discs. I know by putting everything on one disc you wouldnt have to 'swap' discs but by putting them on there in SD defies the point of BD, you might aswell just stick with the DVD.
720p and 1080i are all HD resolutions its just 1080p is preferred.

For now yea i fully agree with that, but blu-ray is not anything more then a storage device, one with an incredible amount of space, and based on rumblings i have heard potential for unreal storage capacity down the road. Now the jump into an HD world can be confusing for your average consumer which is why they would not want to do this now, but once it becomes your standard and is used for movies, audio, storage, etc... why not use it for shows that will never be seen in HD?

To me blu-ray is just the future of optical storage, and 1080p is just one of the many things it is capable of offering, including SD in incredible amounts.

[blu_sharpy]

Yeah I competely understand you and hopefully in the near future BD will expand with its capacity and quality. Do you not think they could even upconvert? I'm not a big fan of upconverts but there would at least be an improvement resolution wise against the DVD.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by blu_sharpy

How would sticking say 24 episodes on one disc help to remove any compression artifacting?

You're joking, right?

Blu-ray has over 5x the disc capacity and much more bandwidth. They could probably do LOSSLESS video at 480p if they maxed out the bandwidth, and that would mean absolutely NO compression artifacts EVER. If they do high bitrate lossy as is the standard, 24 episodes would fit EASILY with room to spare and still be a much higher quality than DVD affords, even at the same resolution.

I agree with the others though. Blu-ray should probably stick to HD only.

[Terjyn]

Blu-Ray can only do lossless 480p with no color depth, even with the "easiest" definition of 480p, being 640x480 at 24 fps.

640 x 480 x 24 is 7,372,800 pixels per second. At a rate of 40 Mbps for picture that only gives you 5 bits per pixel representation, and you aren't getting much out of 5 bits.

Lossless compression would help, but it would take a LOT of compression to get to a more typical bit/pixel ratio.

[Jeff Kleist]

Blu-ray has over 5x the disc capacity and much more bandwidth. They could probably do LOSSLESS video at 480p if they maxed out the bandwidth, and that would mean absolutely NO compression artifacts EVER. If they do high bitrate lossy as is the standard, 24 episodes would fit EASILY with room to spare and still be a much higher quality than DVD affords, even at the same resolution.

No, you couldn't. You might be able to fit a single episode on a BD50, assuming that you were playing it back on a high speed BD-ROM drive, way faster than what is currently available even in the latest PCs. Uncompressed SD video is over a gigabyte a minute, and I've never even heard of a lossless video codec being used.

[Jsheth]

Its quality not quantity that counts

But eventually we will see people downloading whole tv shows like all the Neon Genesis Evangelion episodes and burning them onto one disc, heck I would be doing it now but I dont have a BD drive on my computer

[Digital Filmmaker]

Other than marketing hype, there is absolutely no reason why an entire season of standard-def TV could not be released on a single Blu-ray disc. Quite often, the feature film itself is the only HD content on the entire disc, with any extras just ported over SD DVD material from a previous release.

What BDs have going for them are the option of encoding SD material using AVC. Since AVC is 2-3 times more efficient than MPEG-2, you could still use the same bitrate using AVC encoding of each episode and wind up with a superior SD program with fewer compression artifacts. Even at a lower-than-MPEG-2 bitrate, AVC still easily matches DVD quality, taking up even less space.

So, yes. It is entirely possible that 24+ episodes of a typical TV season could be placed on a single Blu-ray disc, and easily meet or even surpass the quality of MPEG-2 standard DVDs in the process.

The only caveat is that I believe that the menus must be authored in HD to meet spec. But, that is no big deal, since the output would have to be from a Blu-ray player and displayed on an HD screen in any case.

This would be a great way to release certain TV series, like the Star Trek spinoffs of TNG, DS9 and Voyager - programs that only exist on SD video - without having to go through the expensive (and most likely cost-prohibitive) process of rescanning and remastering original film elements to HD.

I compared the included "uprezzed" DS9 Tribbles episode included in the Star Trek second season BD set, to the DVD of the same episode rescaled using my PS3, and I saw fewer artifacts and a more pleasing image from the PS3 scaler than from the same episode on the BD.

So, as far as I'm concerned, bring it on. I could use more shelf space.

My two cents.