HDMI Cables

[SDG]

Next time BB or CC try to force Monster Cable on you, Tell them that you will buy what ever they have hooked to their HDTV's on the wall. They will not be able to sell you anything as they are not using a Brand cable that they stock. You will even find that a lot of the TV's are hooked up with component cables. If they believe in Monster cable so much, why don't they use them their self?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by RUR

See here.

etc.

and for some entertainment, here.



etc. BJ's owner is a lawyer of some repute, and it would appear Monster has picked on the wrong guy. I certainly hope so.

Yes they did pick on the wrong guy - his reponse is rather lengthy but I have read it in its entirety previously. He posts quite often on Audioholics and keeps them updated on the process.

I'm so very happy to see someone sticking it to Monster as they go after nay-sayers the same way Scientology and BOSE do.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by SDG

Next time BB or CC try to force Monster Cable on you, Tell them that you will buy what ever they have hooked to their HDTV's on the wall. They will not be able to sell you anything as they are not using a Brand cable that they stock. You will even find that a lot of the TV's are hooked up with component cables. If they believe in Monster cable so much, why don't they use them their self?

In addition tell them if they can pick out in an AB test which one is using the "low end crappy in-store brand" $50 HDMI cable versus the most expensive Ultra2 THX Monster HDMI cable you'll pay double for it, but if they can't pick the difference out they give you 10% off your television.

Ha, ha.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

In addition tell them if they can pick out in an AB test which one is using the "low end crappy in-store brand" $50 HDMI cable versus the most expensive Ultra2 THX Monster HDMI cable you'll pay double for it, but if they can't pick the difference out they give you 10% off your television.

Ha, ha.

Here's an example of the sorts of shenanigans used to convince prospective buyers of Monster's superiority.

Here's a couple of others from CES 2006.

and let's not forget Monster's suit of a miniature golf course, for pete's sake, only a few weeks after Noel Lee claimed that Monster didn't do such things.

[SDG]

Wow, RUR. That is some scamming. I was lucky enough to have read up on hdmi cables before buying my first HDTV. If I did not know any better, I probably would have bought the Monster cables from BB. Odd that the sales man seamed to know all about cables but little about HDTV's. I cant say anything about others that have been suckered into buying the Monster cables as I have made blind buys before and regretted it later.

[HDTV1080P]

Under most conditions lower quality HDMI cables will work fine at short distances and a higher quality Monster cable is not needed. I have purchased lower quality cables in the past and over several years usually the higher quality more expensive cables will last longer. Some of the cheaper cables are so cheap that they fall apart over the years or stop working.
If I was going to build a home theater room in my house with a Front Projector and a HDMI cable was going to need to be placed inside the wall I am going to get a cable that is rated for the maximum speed. In 10 years, I may want a 4K Front projector and I do not want to have to rip the wall apart to replace the cheap HDMI cable since the cable I purchased will only handle 1080P.
Also if I am purchasing a HDTV for $3,000 or more I do not mind spending a few hundred dollars on cables like Monster Cable brand. There are companies that make expensive video and audio cables that cost several thousands of dollars. Monster Cable is like medium quality compared to the several thousand dollar brands on the market.There is no way I am buying a TV for $6,500 and spending $5,000 on cables. I would rather spend $500 on cables.


Read the entire September 2008 Widescreen Review article on page 58 and 59.

There is no BLU-RAY movies with 12 bit color yet but for those people that own a select few HDMI 1.3 displays with 12 bit color the Playstation 3 will up convert to 12 bit color. Many lower quality HDMI cables cannot handle 12 bit color. The cable needs to be rated for 6.68 Gbps. The test performed in Widescreen Review can be duplicated at home with the proper equipment. Most the time there will be no difference in HDMI cables at 8 bit color.

[dobyblue]

If you have a 12-bit display there is little reason to let the PS3 do the 12-bit conversion, why not let the display do it.

Monoprice have HDMI 1.3 certified cables as well, which at distances of 20ft or less all pass 10.2 Gbps bandwidth.

A "higher quality Monster Cable" is never needed when Blue Jeans are offering the same quality at a far lesser price.

[abynum1]

Wow! I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I am glad that the people who buy Monster cables are just as happy as the Bose owners.
However, I believe that anyone making a post that suggests someone should waste their money on these products should be warned and have their post deleted.

Think of the uniformed readers who may take their advise!!
I mean this forum is designed to help and share factual information, not spread B.S.!!! and yes for those that don't understand 0s and 1s, it is B.S.

This may sound harsh, but if had joined this site,read one of the wrong posts, then went out and blew 100.00 on something I could have got at monoprice for 9.00, I'd be pissed!!!!

People who have too much money and like to blow it,shouldn't be encouraging others to do so,
ok, rant over,sorry

[Oddiophile]

So you guys think because the signal is digital a good quality cable won't make a difference? Notice I said "good quality cable" I didn't name a brand.



It's true the signal is ones and zeros but it is still an electrical signal traveling over a copper cable, resistance in the copper can still manipulate the signal. The HDMI signal is very low in voltage and is not recommended to be run over distance greater then 15 feet. Larger conductors (more copper) will reduce resistance on the signal thus doing less damage to the signal and allowing it to travel greater distances.

An HDMI cable is very complicated, you have 19 conductors that make up a single cable that each send a different part of the signal and must reach the display at the same time. If a part of the signal does not reach the component or display at the right time this can create "jitter", this is information that is typically discarded or lost.

What is "jitter"?
Jitter is time-base error. It is caused by varying time delays in the circuit paths from component to component in the signal path. The two most common causes of jitter are poorly-designed Phase Locked Loops (PLL's) and waveform distortion due to mismatched impedances and/or reflections in the signal path.

You can read more on "Jitter" here. http://www.digido.com/bob-katz/jitter.html

The more jitter the more the quality of your audio and video will suffer.

A cable can not improve a signal it can only do less damage to the signal. Which is why some people spend money on high performance cables, there trying to find the perfect cable that will get the signal from point A to point B with doing the least amount of damage or manipulation to the signal. In this case the less "jitter" or manipulation your cable and components do to the HDMI single the better quality at the other end.

Be careful with using the cheap HDMI cables out there, compare the specs before you buy. A lot of the cheap cables use small conductors 28AWG to as small as 33AWG. Quality control can also be bad on these cables because the length of the 19 conductors are not perfect and can introduce more jitter then a quality cable. A lot of the better cables use silver plaited copper conductors because silver is the best conductor of electricity, #2 being copper, #3 gold. A silver plaited copper conductor can give you 60 to 70% of the benefits of a sold silver conductor.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by Oddiophile

So you guys think because the signal is digital a good quality cable won't make a difference?

As the Audioholics tests conclude:

At lengths less than 4 meters you can just about use silly string (OK, not really) and get HDMI to pass at any current resolution. At less than 3 meters you'll even extend that to 12-bit color and possibly the next crazy idea HDMI Licensing decides to throw at consumers. Don't spend a lot on these cables and if you want to save money you won't let anyone at a big box store talk you into buying from them.

http://www.audioholics.com/education...ion-conclusion

I suspect that most of us are using cables of less than 3-4M.

For longer lengths, there do appear to be differences, though there was no preference for Monster vs. Monoprice vs. BJ vs a couple of others.
http://www.audioholics.com/education...esting-results

As you probably know and despite the informative article you cited, discussions amongst reputable folks regarding the audibility of audio jitter effects are fairly polarized and it's difficult (for me, at least) to find any firm conclusions. As it happens, I use only analog connections for audio, so I have no personal experience to relate.

Having said all this, I do believe in buying quality cables. I simply don't believe in buying them from companies with exorbitant pricing and questionable business practices, whatever the name of the company.

[Oddiophile]

Audioholics lost credibility with me years ago, they do have some good articles and info. Maybe there not doing it now (I haven't been on there in awhile) but back in the day they were trashing aftermarket cable manufacturers and there clam's. But any cable manufacture that supported there site was getting these sparkling cable reviews and how this cable doesn't have magic pixie dust that makes the bass better it does what its supposed to do it gets out of the way of the signal, bla, bla, bla. What a scam. They have been trashing Audioquest's DBS system for years, I bet if Audioquest was a paying supporter of there website the DBS system would be the next best thing since sliced bread.



I use a component in my system made by Camelot Technology's called the Dragon Pro MKIII. What it does is reclock a digital single to eliminate jitter on Toshlink, SPDIF, and AES-EBU. The effects it has is dramatic! If you can't here the difference...your deaf.

[crxvtec]

I have 2 6 foot HDMI cables I bought from Big Lots with pretty much the word HDMI on the package and that is it. Over a year now and no issues at all. 7 dollars per cable.

One time I switched the HDMI cable of my friends set up with one of those cheap wires( IDK the brand but he spent over 130 for it). We were watching spiderman and started to talk about PQ and AQ. I brought up the fact that any HDMI cable would work.He was going on about how much better his display looked with his cables. I have never seen him SO PISSED when I showed him that we had been watching Spider man( and playing games, Using a PS3) with My "shitty" wire. It was AWESOME

[dobyblue]

If the signal is not clear, it's not working.
If you don't have sparkles and/or snow all over your screen, your HDMI cable is working.

Audioholics might have lost faith with some for something they never actually did (the well-reviewed products were good ones and people that use that old argument never bother to mention that there were numerous glowing reviews for companies that didn't advertise on the site as well) but those tests are accurate. They are not opinion pieces.

Here's the fact - EVERY HDMI cable under 20ft passed all bandwidth tests.

If you think you need a better build of cable it's got nothing to do with performance, but rather the build of the cable. If you think otherwise, you're kidding yourself.

[SDG]

My HDMI cable is so good that it up-converts all of the 0's too 1's. $15

[Fiveft20in]

Originally Posted by Oddiophile

Audioholics lost credibility with me years ago, they do have some good articles and info. Maybe there not doing it now (I haven't been on there in awhile) but back in the day they were trashing aftermarket cable manufacturers and there clam's. But any cable manufacture that supported there site was getting these sparkling cable reviews and how this cable doesn't have magic pixie dust that makes the bass better it does what its supposed to do it gets out of the way of the signal, bla, bla, bla. What a scam. They have been trashing Audioquest's DBS system for years, I bet if Audioquest was a paying supporter of there website the DBS system would be the next best thing since sliced bread.



I use a component in my system made by Camelot Technology's called the Dragon Pro MKIII. What it does is reclock a digital single to eliminate jitter on Toshlink, SPDIF, and AES-EBU. The effects it has is dramatic! If you can't here the difference...your deaf.

Somone this concerned with the ability of his components to communicate with one another should make a better effort to communicate his thoughts effectively on this board. Clam-trashers beware!

[krazeyeyez]

lol im sold, im gonna get rid of these perfectly working cables i use, pull the first monster hdmi i got ripped off on "thanks bestbuy" out of my closet and go buy another three, and after i get done with that im heading out to go buy a bose stereo system, cause paying more means better quality right. thats a sound argument if i ever heard one.

now to buy a "REAL" cable lol and a REAL stereo.

o crap gotta wash my shoes, just stepped in fud. im sorry some people feel to the need to justify somehow the fact they got taxed and taxed hard, but the facts are out there for anyone informed enough to do some research and apparently if you can afford to buy 100 dollar plus cable you can afford to test this yourself. not a spec of difference audio or visually between my 120$ monster hdmi i bought on the dumb idea "its gotta be better" and the 30$ cables i got from my local hiend stereo store.

[Ricshoe]

Originally Posted by Fiveft20in

Somone this concerned with the ability of his components to communicate with one another should make a better effort to communicate his thoughts effectively on this board. Clam-trashers beware!

Heh, heh...

You forgot another 'there'

Maybe there not doing it now (I haven't been on there in awhile) but back in the day they were trashing aftermarket cable manufacturers and there clam's.

[Fiveft20in]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Heh, heh...

You forgot another 'there'

Dang - those homonyms will get you every time! "There," "their," "they're."

I'll go back and get it.

[tommyjitsu]

If I were to buy a monoprice cable which gauge would you recommend? I read somewhere that a member prefers a 24 gauge but on the monoprice website it states that one is for in-wall. Would you go with 28 or 24 gauge hdmi? If I were to buy a monster cable which gauge would that one be?

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by tommyjitsu

If I were to buy a monoprice cable which gauge would you recommend? I read somewhere that a member prefers a 24 gauge but on the monoprice website it states that one is for in-wall. Would you go with 28 or 24 gauge hdmi? If I were to buy a monster cable which gauge would that one be?

under 6ft I would get the 28awg

anything over 6ft I would get the 24awg

over 25ft 22awg

...thats just me.