Blu-ray Forum - Star Wars: The Complete Saga, Original & Prequel Trilogy - Sept 16, 2011

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- - Star Wars: The Complete Saga, Original & Prequel Trilogy - Sept 16, 2011 - Review (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=141915)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookson (Post 4914367)

I think I'm getting the two box sets. The "complete" set box art is just bad.

Yes, it´s bad, but it´s a digibook. The two separated box sets are not digibooks.

i can't remember and it'll determine what i order.....there is an extra disc included in the complete saga compared to the 2 individual trilogies right??

do we know what's on the 9th disc yet??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny (Post 4914412)

i can't remember and it'll determine what i order.....there is an extra disc included in the complete saga compared to the 2 individual trilogies right??

do we know what's on the 9th disc yet??

No. The separate trilogies are 3 discs only. The saga set has 3 bonus discs.

^ As per my post a month and a half ago:

Quote:

Originally Posted by atexp80 (Post 4739263)

For those who have been speculating about whether the separate trilogy releases include 3 or 4 discs we may now have some indication. Local (Australian) retailers have been provided preliminary art. As you can see from the trilogy releases each show that they are 3 disc sets:

http://images.blu-ray.com/movies/covers/23734_large.jpg
http://images.blu-ray.com/movies/covers/23735_large.jpg
http://images.blu-ray.com/movies/covers/23736_large.jpg

Although this is not concrete confirmation it's doubtful the actual disc contents would vary internationally other than language options so given this it's highly likely that the US trilogy releases will have three discs. Naturally wait for confirmation but these are the first Fox released images which give us an indication of the fact that they will lack any of the features other than those included on the actual film discs (commentaries etc).

This is a worldwide release. There's no reason to think that the configuration of 3 discs for the separate trilogies and 9 for the saga won't apply in the US. Amazon listings also state 3 discs. I know they aren't super-reliable but between those two sources it's very reasonable to expect 3 discs in them and not four as some seem to be thinking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelldweller (Post 4858637)

I think you´re wrong there. You really can´t compare LOTR to Star Wars. You might as well through Matrix, Pirates of the Carribean or Spider-Man in there.
They are all successful franchises but can´t match the creative impact Star Wars has. Besides, LOTR isn´t even an original movie trilogy but an adaption which isn´t as good as the books it is based on .

Exactly! :highfive:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falaskan (Post 4858918)

I'm kinda glad it wasn't just about Vader, Luke, and a princess.

Me too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelldweller (Post 4863665)

I really never got what was wrong with the Prequels. I love all the Episodes alike. I always liked Star Wars before the Prequels came out but the Prequels really set Star Wars on a new level and added much more depth to the overall story. If someone doesn´t see then maybe Star Wars isn´t for them.

I think the same way, and yes, I am aware this could potentially fuel yet another pointless discussion...Who cares!
People, whose favorite character is Han Solo, don't really like SW, or "get it" for that matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC (Post 4863835)

I don't buy that argument. They're bad...period. That's like saying X movie isn't so bad when you have The Godfather or Gone With the Wind to compare it to.

Well, hell, if we ONLY had Ishtar and 88 Minutes to compare the PT to, they might be better.

It's YOUR opinion, and in my opinion it's perfectly worthless. :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay444 (Post 4863985)

I call this the 'Chinese Democracy theory' and I think it holds. Ten plus years in the making and it finally gets released and does not live up to unreal expectations set by fans. While a good record (it is actually very good), Chinese Democracy was no Appetite for Destruction (hailed as a masterpiece). Same rule applies to Star Wars and even Duke Nukem. Doomed to fail because they took too long and the brand name was neglected over a gap of 14 years or so (there was NOTHING new released for Star Wars until 1997). Expectations just built into the unreasonable and doomed the PT before it even began.

The PT is enjoyable, but will always been seen as a disappointment by most. The PT sits notably lower on the preorder charts at 138, where the OT is 53, and the saga is at 6. That is basically all the evidence one needs to see to know its not held in the same league.

Anyway, I liked the PT because it gave me more of a universe I loved. But filmmaking techniques and such have come such a long way it doesn't mesh very well with the previous series. But whatever, I am still buying the whole Saga.

Most people who enjoy the PT, love SW as a whole, so it's only natural that they would get the Complete Saga.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelldweller (Post 4864058)

First of all, the mass of people who enjoy something doesn´t say anything about it´s quality. If Lucas intended to satisfy the typical fans who are now complaining he would have made a rip-off of the original Trilogy (aka Sequels).

The Amazon preorder ranking is explained very easily. The people who like the Prequels mostly like Star Wars in general and therefore order the complete box instead of just ordering the Prequels. There are also many people who out of nostalgia (I guess) aren´t open to the Prequels and therefore only like the Sequels and just order the IV-VI box.

But again, I´m not trying to convince anyone to like the movies. If you don´t like them don´t buy them, don´t watch them but please stop whining about it. And most of all don´t tell Lucas what to do just because you don´t share the same taste and interests as he does.

This.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboy (Post 4864835)

What hero? Anakin? A Hero is usually likeable in a film. Someone you actually care about. In no way shape or form can you care about Anakin in these films. There is no plight that we follow him through! Between the lousy dialouge and acting not to even mention that they were both brats from the start do we even care about this guy. In fact I found myself cheering for him to even hurry up and become Vader because he was so much more interesting. Not at any point did I feel sorry for this guy......

I cared, so your point is moot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatrat1982 (Post 4866663)

No I was dead serious I love Michael Bay and Star Wars and I just figured if anybody remade it he should. I mean yeah the obvious nerd choice would be James Cameron but I don't want him touching it.

:eek: :crazy:

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelldweller (Post 4867857)

What is more selfish... to respect a filmmaker´s work and have him decide in which way he wants to show his movies to the public or to insist on having them shown the way you saw them for the first time?

I just don´t see how the theatrical editions could possibly fit into the "Complete Saga" Set. It just my opinion.
By the way... art is not democratic. The artist has and should have the final word.

100% agreed! :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by adywan (Post 4872504)

Obi-Wan was cut in half, but he still has a full body. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uxi (Post 4872722)

What? Didn't he disappear before the blade hit him?

Yep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelldweller (Post 4872202)

Found some kerosene to fuel the fire ... ;)

http://www.planet-danger.de/uploads/esb_bd07.jpg

Gosh I wish this was an official pic! This would be perfect! It clearly is the ROTS Yoda, which was the best Yoda ever. I hope he will be used for all the Episodes. They can do head replacements in the OT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogmort (Post 4877822)

Less than 85 days to go until the release date! :ohnoes:

CAN NOT WAIT!!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelldweller (Post 4881034)

Ok, here it comes! I got an e-Mail from Lucasfilm confirming that the Blu-Rays will only feature the definitive versions of the movies. More digital enhancements have been made to meet Lucas vision.

I promise that this information is true and I could not be happier!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breather (Post 4885211)

This reply that they're supposedly giving doesn't make sense. There were no 2000 and 2003 versions of any of the films/dvds. The OT on DVD was released late September, 2004. Not 2003. Episode I was released on DVD in October, 2001. Not 2000. Episode II was released on DVD in November, 2002.

So, there were no releases or versions in 2000 or 2003. Either someone at Lucasfilm Publicity is very wrong or the original Amazon poster of the above response was full of it.

I've never understood the speculation on what version we're getting. To me, it's been clear since they mentioned it last fall. We were getting the 2004 versions with more changes.

I also don't believe that we're getting Lucas' "ultimate vision" either. He doesn't have one for the OT, in my opinion. Well, he did. His original vision was the theatrical versions. So, we had the '77, '80, and '83 vision. Then, we had the '97 vision which he stated on the '97 SE featurette as the way he always intended the films to be and his true vision. But, we then got the 2004 vision. Now, we're getting the 2011 vision and probably a 3D vision with more changes. Call me a cynic but I truly believe that these never-ending changes and ever-changing vision has become nothing more than the business model at Lucasfilm. The changes and the constant speculation of future changes throughout the fanbase creates a lot of talk and interest in the franchise and helps sell the films on home video each time they're released.

So psyched about it!!!!!! This sounds awesome! I also think that it's going to be the final versions this time around. :ohnoes: :hyper:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breather (Post 4891611)

I never stated in my post that you like the prequels better than the OT. I stated that I thought I remembered you being a prequel fan, based on your postings, as opposed to not liking the prequels. Being an OT fan is already assumed, for all of us. ;)

Since you mentioned that you didn't have the DVD's, I thought it would be worth telling you about the nice extras on the prequel DVD's and the OT bonus DVD. Considering that these great extras don't appear to be porting over to the BD set, they're worth picking up, for any fan. Just trying to help.

I don't believe that people have to accept the bonus content quietly. You're right, we can't change it, but we can certainly voice our opinions in a thread dedicated to Star Wars. Whether those opinions are positive or negative doesn't matter. It also would make sense to voice those opinions to Lucasfilm, whether it helps or not. If they know people want certain things, it may help on the next release or even help to generate a separate release of bonus features. Doubtful on the separate release thing. Just thought I'd throw that in. ;)

We do agree on one thing. Getting the films with great A/V quality, provided the 2004 transfer/audio problems are corrected, along with the bonus content we are getting, is worth the $90 asking price. My complaints about this set never involved monetary value.

You've got to admit, my idea for a 10th disc was a pretty good one. ;)

For simplicity's sake, they could have even left Disc 9 as they have it now. Add a Disc 10 that includes "The Beginning", "From Puppets to Pixels", "Within a Minute", "Empire of Dreams", "From Star Wars to Jedi", and maybe even "George Lucas: A&E Biography", "Star Wars: Music by John Williams(BBC)", "Star Wars: A Musical Journey", "Star Wars: The Legacy Revealed", and "The Mythology of Star Wars", since they're all likely SD, and that would have substantially improved this release. Considering that they're all likely SD, a BD-50 would have worked fine. Call the disc "Star Wars Documentaries II".

That would have been perfect, although we still don't know the bonus contents in their entirety.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu (Post 4892092)

I think I know now what the problem is... I wouldn't call the updated movies "cuts" or "versions" where you can pick your favorite.

I can say "I like the theatrical release of a movie (Avatar, Lord Of The Rings, ...) better than the Director's or extended Cut." In the case of Star Wars it is ALWAYS THE SAME "CUT" if you will. The changes are always cosmetical, technical enhancements. In the way the Star Wars Saga was conceived and structured there is no room for different "versions" simultanously because the most important thing is the coherence of the whole 6-part-saga - and that is and always was the Project that is called Star Wars.

"Fans" who resent the way Lucas releases his movies dislike Star Wars at it's core! If I'd resent something from the core (in my case Harry Potter, Avatar, Twilight,...) then I keep away from it and don't bicker endlessly about how I would like these movies to be something they are not supposed to be - cause obviously they are for a different audience than me.

So true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben_UK (Post 4892433)

Ive always thought that the original Star Wars trilogy was liked (loved?) by film fans and fans of "star wars". The prequel trilogy is loved by "star wars" fans, not film fans.

I am a film fan.

:confused: WTF? :rolleyes: Seriously?

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelldweller (Post 4894537)

Now that we are finally done discussing the whole OOT topic and we finally know (and Octagon for month) that Lucas has in fact done more enhancing to release the complete Saga for the first time on blu-ray and in cinemas starting Feb 2012... what do you think he fixed or changed now that Star Wars is complete?

Besides, I don´t think the movies will be changed again after this one. Star Wars is out for the first time as a complete Saga with today´s technical possibilities to finish the whole Saga. It´s been said that they won´t be changed for the 3D release. Lucas said he will finally make more own movies (after Red Tails) now that Star Wars is finished.

I think the CGI Yoda in TPM is a given. I´m sure Sabers will be fixed too.

I think so too.

I really hope they replaced Jabba the Hutt in ROTJ, and Yoda('s head) in TESB and ROTJ, as well as that absolutely awful VFX shot of the star destroyer crashing into the the super star destroyer, or whatever it is supposed to be, and lots more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adywan (Post 4900393)

Of course most are going to go for the complete set because that is the only way you are going to get all the extras. It has nothing to do with how many want the whole saga.

Anyway, some more info about the blu-rays:

source: bigpicturebigsound

Sounds fantastic!!!!!!! Thanks for the link. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle (Post 4900853)

I'm betting the complete saga is going to be like the sopranos which the cardboard pockets you pull the discs out of.

Is that like the Avatar Collector's Edition?

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelldweller (Post 4907733)

What are the odds that this release will be regionfree? I´d really like to import the US version instead of buying the german BD Box.

That's why I got myself the Oppo BDP-83 SE.
I hate the German titles of 99,9% of all movies.
I think they intentionally try to piss us off! :rolleyes:

Example: Monsters vs. Aliens German: Monsters und (and) Aliens!!!!!! :angry: :lolcry:

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg_achen (Post 4908779)

A lot of people interpret the scene where Anakin cuts off Mace's arm as the moment when he turns to the dark side. When viewing it in that context, it does seem abrupt. However, I always viewed the preceding scene where Anakin is alone in the Council Chamber and he and Padme are looking at each other across Corucscant as the moment when he decides he will do whatever it takes to save Padme, even if it meant selling his soul to the "devil." At the end of that scene, when the tear runs down his face, his decision has been made. The scene where he aides in killing Mace was the actualization of a decision he already committed himself to and once he went through with it, there was no going back.

Though I acknowledge that rationalization doesn't work for everyone and people have legitimate reasons to be unhappy with his turn. However, when I view the scene I just described as his turning point, there is a subtlety and bittersweet poignancy that works for me, as opposed to the more melodramatic "turn" when he cuts off Mace's arm.

EDIT: It's a beautiful and haunting scene too. The music, cinematography, and even the acting were all rare instances of perfection in the PT, IMO.

YouTube - ‪Padme's Ruminations‬&rlm;

One of the best scenes in the entire SAGA! Pure cinema MAGIC!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu (Post 4908873)

How can you say that the transformation was too abrupt when in Anakin in fact was moving towards the dark side since he was a child: the grief over his mothers loss, the defiance of Obi-Wans teachings, Avenging his mother and his subsequent pull towards Padme, Lying to all the Jedi about his secret love, general arrogance, jealousy, Killing Dooku... In my opinion the transformation was subtle and beautifully executed.

Well, some folks need it spelled out more clearly than others me thinks. ;)

Yay! I finally caught up with the thread again!

Great news so far!

"The Complete Saga" collection looks beautiful, although I hope it's not like the super glossy Avatar Collector's Edition with those cardboard disc holders that you pull out....!?!?!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by atexp80 (Post 4914415)

No. The separate trilogies are 3 discs only. The saga set has 3 bonus discs.

holy crap, i didn't know there were 3 extra disc's w/the complete saga.

looks like i'll have to ignore the crappy packaging (in my opinion) and go w/the saga for the extra's.

Here is a picture of the packaging. The complete collection is a book similar to the Alien Anthology. http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/ar...rs-BDs-WEB.jpg

Source:http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/A-...-to-Town.shtml

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluyoda (Post 4914547)

Hey Bluyoda, I´m glad you´re back!

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Originally Posted by ZoetMB (Post 4909743)

There's a slight chance he doesn't get much on the first film (although I even doubt that) because he originally gave away all but the merchandising rights in order to get the money to complete, but on the other films he owns a big piece and on the PT, I believe Fox was only the distributor.

Lucas owns the rights to the entire Saga outright. The only one he didn't own was "A New Hope", and he aquired that from Fox as part of the distribution deal for the PT. The only role Fox has now with SW is "distributor".

We're only a few months away and right now, I could care less what extras are included. The ONLY thing I'm concerned with is the A/V and if Lucasfilm FINALLY got the release right this time...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff D (Post 4914353)

The latex used for the original puppet had degraded too much. You can even see that it's not in a perfect state in Jedi, never mind 20-odd years later.

A new puppet was created for ROTJ. It wasn't the same one as used in ESB.

Now, back to the Blu-Rays, I'm seriously hoping that they aren't going to be using the same master as the 2004/ broadcast HD versions. There are some serious problems with the master source that isn't limited to the crappy colour and sound problems. There are video glitches that are in the master. You can see one here:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-i...52520kopie.jpg
Now this is one frame from the official 2004 DVD set. Now at first you would think it could just be down to a possible encode error for the DVD's, but no. The same glitches are present in the same spots in the 1080p HD versions too, so the glitches exist on their master. It seems like the whole 2004 OT transfers need scrapping and they need to start from scratch.

The colouring of the films was perfect in the 1997 SE restoration so how could they get it so wrong for the DVD's? They were very careful in the colour timing for the SE's , matching it so close to the original 1997 technicolor prints, but change the pallet so drastically for the DVD's it was unwatchable. Yet you get the same denial from LFL that there isn't a problem like they did with the screwed up audio track for ANH. They claim that it was a "deliberate creative decision" and that "it looks perfect on our monitors and peoples TV's aren't calibrated correctly". Bull. So how come people with professionally calibrated monitors and TV's still have these messed up colours? The truth of the matter is that the DVD set was so rushed that they screwed up and didn't want to admit it in fear of an expensive recall.

Now i really hope i'm wrong on this but i would say that they are just going to use the 2004 master yet again. They have had a long enough time to fix all these problems with the OT but will they spend more money on doing a new transfer/ clean-up to make them look the best they can? probably not. Lucas has gone on record saying how much he dislikes the OT and that he hates ESB. When you get the fanboys saying how much they prefer the new colouring it is a pretty sad time to think how deluded a certain set of fans are. Since when was Yoda neon blue? I really can't understand why they applied such a heavy cyan filter on ANH & ESB, but left ROTJ pretty much untouched.

Hopefully some real footage from the OT blu-ray transfers will show up pretty soon as it already has for TPM and that does look really good-no more pink tint to the whole film.
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/546...ransfer.th.jpg

But this is another reason i think that they are using the 2004 OT transfers. In the ILM:Creating the impossible documentary all the footage from TPM is the new transfer, yet all the OT scenes are exactly the same 2004 version. Why use new footage from one film yet for the OT they use an old transfer? And i don't buy the excuses some fans said elsewhere when i brought this up, that they want to keep the OT secret / they didn't have access to the new OT transfer.

Agreed I'm with you when it comes to hoping that the problems from the 2004 dvd release of the OT are addressed and fixed for the blu-ray release like the lightsabers , pink tint explosions , blue tint to hoth , and other issues with the picture are addressed and fixed for the blu-ray box set as well as the sound mix to episode 4 a new hope that sound mix sounded nothing like the film was suppose to sound like prior to 2004 . Also we know that episode 1 TPM is getting a new blu-ray transfer as well as the new digital yoda being added to episode 1. As far as other changes go it's unknown at this point but I would like to see not too many changes but some special effects touch ups not changes but touch ups to some of the cgi effects that where created for the SE's in 97 / 2004. I am looking forward to seeing the films on blu-ray in 1080p HD and DTS HD Master Audio 6.1 and the most thing I'm looking forward to as far as the extras is the cut / extended scenes from the films and the old documentaries on disc 9.

Im thinking of buying tbe set seperately because of the hard cases.but i have afew quistions. Amazon says the seperate sets have 4 disc each and the complete set has 9. But people on here are saying they only come with three. So i dont know if i should buy seperately and miss out on extras. Help me please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OB1KNBE (Post 4915464)

Im thinking of buying tbe set seperately because of the hard cases.but i have afew quistions. Amazon says the seperate sets have 4 disc each and the complete set has 9. But people on here are saying they only come with three. So i dont know if i should buy seperately and miss out on extras. Help me please.

Amazon says the separate trilogies have 3 discs:

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Preq...9663982&sr=8-3

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Orig...9663982&sr=8-2

So, if you want extras other than the commentaries which will be on the film discs you need to buy the saga. If you have no interest in features then you could get the separate trilogies if you like the art better. Only you can decide that though. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riddler95 (Post 4915338)

I've read & heard that Lucasfilm & Lowry Digital went back to the HD Masters created for The Star Wars Trilogy and they are working on improving the quality and fixing the errors that the 2004 had. I'll believe it when the reviews for the sets begin to get posted.

I am also hoping that the problems from the 2004 DVDs had will be fixed for the Blu-Rays. But it is still disappointing that the Original Versions of the Trilogy will not be included or given an HD Restoration for the set.

I don't like the packaging being used for The Complete Saga. I don't like the artwork and the book style case. I prefer the packaging being used for the individual trilogy sets, the artwork is much better as well. I'll probably buy just the original trilogy then later the prequel set, but if I can get the Complete Saga for a really good deal, I'll just go with that.

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/ar...rs-BDs-WEB.jpg

But back in 2004 when the DVD's came out and people complained about the transfers, Lucasfilm dismissed all complaints and claimed that the errors present on the discs were deliberate creative choices (I still can't fathom after all these years how giving Vader a pink saber and drowning out the swelling force theme as the x-wings swoop down on the death star constitute deliberate creative choices, but I digress).

Anyway, the thing is is that if those errors are indeed fixed, then they'll basically be admitting that the transfers were defective and that they were just bullshitting everybody when they dismissed all claims to the contrary.

Does anyone know if they have fixed the scene where Natalie Portman suddenly looks like she has the mumps? I can't recall which of the films it was in, but one scene she looked like her stunning normal self, and the next her face/cheeks were all swolen up like a balloon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamphausd1 (Post 4915490)

I hope this happens and politicians do this all the time...most people won't remember them saying the changes to the 2004 sets was intentional and all will be well...or as well as they can be for the SW saga...

^ Yes, but you just know that we'd get some standard line about how the 2004 versions were made using the best available elements and restored using the best available technology of the time and that now 7 years later there are new tools etc that they have been able to use to deliver a far better end product.

That way they're saying the delivered the best they could in both 2004 and 2011, whilst admitting no fault of any sort. :D The thing about politicians is generally they've got someone behind them with an ability to craft superb statements which sidestep issues. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamphausd1 (Post 4915587)

:thumbsup: You perfectly described what Lucas and his company are about these days. There's no denying that he's a crafty businessman and would've made one hell of a politician. ;)

And even if you were being sarastic, I still wouldn't put it past him at all to have his company issue a statement like the one you suggested (assuming the upcoming blu ray transfers have indeed fixed all the issues of course).

That's something else that I find funny about the Lucas defenders who get "upset" when someone even suggests the possibility that Lucas has lied or intentionally mislead people about something.

It's pretty much well known and widely accepted that there were technical errors with the color timing and sound of the 2004 DVD release (with these issues being completely separate from changes/additions like putting Hayden at the end of ROTJ).

It is very obvious that this was a screw up or an oversight of some kind. I can't imagine that having inconsistently colored light sabers was something that George Lucas desired and went out of his way to intentionally create, yet he and his "PR camp" refuse to aknowledge it (and IF it was intentional, then it was a bone-headed decision that can't be defended).

There's obviously some dubious information coming from him and his company, and there's no good excuse for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riddler95 (Post 4915338)

But it is still disappointing that the Original Versions of the Trilogy will not be included or given an HD Restoration for the set.

They won't be in this set but they will be released eventually I am betting...lets just say George is losing out on some decent bucks by not putting them out.