Right! ;)

Now, back to Indiana Jones...

People have made this claim and I just dont understand it.

Actually, they do. Indiana Jones has always been about exploring ancient myths. Examining religious and cultural artifacts have already been done, so aliens was really just a natural progression for the series.

What people like you should really say, is, "I dont think it belongs just because I don't like it."

Inter dimensional beings.

You don't get aliens from the story we are presented. Fact. Really no one can make a proper argument they are "aliens". And anyone who claims its definitely aliens is only doing so because of lucas hating, stereotypes (spielberg, creature look, the era) or sarcastic jest, again against lucas.

Yep. Issues?

That's a pedantic argument of semantics. You can label "inter dimensional beings" with the term 'aliens' in the same sense you can label any immigrant or foreigner an 'alien'. Besides which, the beings certainly weren't human, which again fits in the category of 'alien'.

But even if some are using the term for "lucas hating"...it's certainly justified. :D

Not to mention that they looked just like aliens and flew away in a flying saucer. :D
I've always felt that saying they are "inter-dimensional beings" was just an excuse to say that they weren't aliens. And that has nothing to do with Lucas bashing/hating from me.


Well, that's like saying that any time someone states their opinion, they have to say "in my opinion". You're already supposed to know that they're just saying what they think. ;)

But thats not what theyre saying. Theyre saying, "THIS HAS NO PLACE HERE!" Is if that is a fact, even though it isnt.

If I remember right, in one of the interviews with Spielberg about KOtCS, he says something along the lines of not wanting to do a movie with aliens in it, and GL saying something like, they don't have to be aliens, we can call them interdimensional beings. It seemed like it was pretty much a throwaway.

I didn't really have a problem with the aliens/whatever. I can buy that just as well as religious artifacts wielding unearthly powers. It was most everything else I found disappointing. But, I can watch it for what it is, and enjoy its up moments.

Yeah but Lucas loves to pull the wool over our eyes. He is now saying that "greedo always shot first", so take him with a pound of salt.

See. This is the bs that the spoil sport band of jaded folk have turned to. Something totally unrelated to the proceedings in the movie is used to debunk a black and white plot point!

In the movie it is inter dimensional beings. That is what the story tells us.

Its basic stereotyping to assume anything else. Spielberg is like all you close minded types in being TOO conscious of his legacy and "aliens" so oh no it must just must be aliens "masked" with a bs term...

All the baggage and silly information coming out from PR has nothing to do with the story we see in the film. There is no loose end or ambiguity or room for interpretation or using other info sourced from outside the movie to base an interpretation. Sorry folks

The blu-ray.com forums boast some of the most inane and moronic debates, and I've been guilty in partaking in a few of them, but this "alien vs. inter-dimensional being" debate has to be the worst! (or best depending on how you rank idiotic debates).

I'll check back in about 20 posts when the eventual comparison of Lucas to Hitler start to surface and the thread succumbs to Godwin's Law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Calm down, chuckles. I'm just presenting information as it is. I'm not trying to debunk anything, as I don't care, as I stated and you quoted.

I can't help what he said.

we know had Speildberg been ok with them being aliens, they would have been. The fact is, he had done aliens to death in previous films, and George somehow convinced him to allow it by calling them "inter-dimentioal." So they're aliens. Titles can be semantic.

I have to respect your opinion

but WOW.

This isn't correct. The aliens are probably something that could have very easily fitted into KOTCS. I think people gravitate towards pointing out the aliens as the problem, when in reality it's just the most obvious thing to point to.

The real issue is that KOTCS just wasn't a very good Indiana Jones movie, period. You could blame the hokey CGI, the silly fridge scene, the stupid tarzan-inspired action, the lackluster performance of a badly aged Karen Allen, the complete lack of suspense and mystery, the introduction of Jones' son played by the always annoying Shia Lebouf. I could go on, but the movie fails on multiple levels.

It's like trying to point out the precise chemical reason why a cake made of mud tastes bad. Don't bother. It just does, and it's no substitute for the real thing. Both Raiders of the Lost Ark and The Last Crusade capture Indiana Jones and his world extremely well; Temple of Doom isn't too bad, but is ruined somewhat by an unsympathetic, annoying and badly cast female lead.

KOTCS is not an Indy movie, there is no awe, wonder and mystery. It's like a 21st century Indiana Jones variety show in movie form.

haha that made me laugh

Steven Spielberg: "I sympathise with people who didn't like the MacGuffin because I never liked the MacGuffin," Spielberg told Empire in an interview that will be featured in their next issue. "George and I had big arguments about the MacGuffin. I didn't want these things to be either aliens or inter-dimensional beings. But I am loyal to my best friend. When he writes a story he believes in - even if I don't believe in it - I'm going to shoot the movie the way George envisaged it. I'll add my own touches, I'll bring my own cast in, I'll shoot the way I want to shoot it, but I will always defer to George as the storyteller of the Indy series. I will never fight him on that."

Source: http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=32315


Make of that what you will.....

Whether you want to call them aliens or inter-dimensional beings, I just feel in some ways that it doesn't fit into an Indy film, although mzupeman does make a good point. Either way, it doesn't ruin the movie for me or anything. I can just overlook it.

Some other interesting titbits - from the pre-release press junket:

LUCAS: We wrote complete scripts on other MacGuffins [for the third film]. And finally I said, look, let's just try the Holy Grail. [Adopting another voice] ''Ohhh, it's too cerebral, we'll never make it work....'' So we turned it into a tangible magic cup with healing powers, instead of an intellectual thing. It wasn't until the idea of introducing the father came along that we kind of pulled [the third movie] out of the fire. Because it then shifted from being about the MacGuffin. But ultimately, these are supernatural mysteries. They aren't action adventures. Everybody thinks they're action-adventure films, but that's just the genre we hang them on.

SPIELBERG: There's not one that hasn't been supernatural.

LUCAS: The supernatural part has to be real. [He taps the table] Which is why they're very hard, and you run out [of options] very fast. You have to have a supernatural object that people actually believe in. People believe that there was an Ark of the Covenant, and it has these powers. Same thing with the Sankara stones, same thing with the Holy Grail. We may have exaggerated some of its powers, but basically there are people who believe there is a Holy Grail, brought back by the Knights Templar.

SPIELBERG: Of course, I was worried that people would hear ''Holy Grail,'' and they would immediately think about a white rabbit attacking Monty Python. My first reaction was to say, ''Everybody run away! Run away!''

Well to bring us into Indy 4, what kind of developmental push and pull went on once you decided to set the new film in the 1950s?

LUCAS: The idea was to take the genre of Saturday-matinee serials, which were popular in the '30s and '40s, and say, ''What kind of B movie was popular in the '50s, like those B movie serials were popular in the '40s?'' And use that as the overall uber-genre. We wouldn't do it as a Saturday-matinee serial. We'd do it as a B movie from the '50s.

SPIELBERG: The Cold War came to mind immediately, because if you're in the '50s, you have to acknowledge the Cold War.


http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20192040,00.html

IMO the 2nd and 4th McMuffin goes down sour sometimes. But when it comes to the taste of McMuffins; on any given day I may be able to enjoy all the 4 McMuffins for what they are - entertainment.

I don't believe in real life instances of the Ark, or Stones, or Holy Grail, or Interdimensional beings (or aliens for the jaded), but I get into them in a world created for them! Which indy most definitely is.

Sure there are weak parts of KOTCS, though it has nothing to do with using outside information to cheapen years of storytelling.

Spielberg can frame it anyway he wants outside of the movie and special features prism. Inside the indy world, he portrayed a clearly defined McMuffin, and they are Interdimensional beings.

I was not discussing whether or not this was a good film though. I was responding to the notion that many people seem to keep saying over the years that aliens (or inter-dimensional beings, whatever) have no place in an Indiana Jones flick, and I stated my opinion as to why I believe that simply isnt true.

I do agree with your assessment of the film though. I really do. I still somehow manage to have a lot of fun with it despite all its flaws though. Go figure ;-)