::cocks street sweeper::

All that to siphon gas from a truck? Bastards.

Office okay?

Yea, they took some power tools but otherwise not too bad. Good thing I don't own the place

How did you manage to swing the upgraded wiring? However you did it, that's awesome. I noticed on the web site of the place where I bought my TT they have a Speed Box SE that was traded in for $400, a new one is $678 after tax. Looks like I'll be getting a Speed Box sooner than I thought, it's priced well. Hopefully the listening session today gave you a better idea of which direction you want to take.

I didn't do anything to get the upgraded wiring. My dealer said it was for his cousin, and he needed to be helped out. So they hooked it up. I guess they upgraded some other stuff too. Who knows, I could end up with a TT that is 90% the level of yours. Whats really funny is that he doesn't sell anything that Sumiko Audio distributes.

OK, so the M3i sounds great. He took it out of the box 10 minutes before I got there and played one song before I got to hear it. So it really wasn't broke in at all. The first song I played was The Black Keys, it sounded fuzzy. But the soundstage was bigger then I hear on my Integra. Next I played Star Tracks the Imperial March, the bass was OK, but not great. Next I played Muddy Waters, here the amp started to sound much cleaner and I could hear all the little nuances of the harmonica and guitar, then the Piano solo kicked in and it was very detailed, more then I get on the Integra. Then I put on Davorak, and the symphony started to sound more detailed and smooth, lifting if that makes sense, almost crystaline. THEN, I put on Foo Fighters, Walk, OMG, it sounded like it was a different IA, the Foo Fighters sounded like they were in concert. It was robust, bold, inviting and aggressive. Then I wanted to push the M3i to see if it could handle towers, so I had him connect the M3i to the F260s, I kept pushing the IA up and up, and the Focus took it, the M3i never squawked. It kept feeding the F260s, we played Walk from the Foos on this one again, and it was fantastic. So then we played Star Tracks to see how it played on the F260s, the tympani was not quite as deep as the Naim XS played it on the F220 MKIs, but it was deep and tight and accurate. The MKIs are a little boomy, so that could have been part of it, and Naim is known for their deep slam. However, I wasn't wanting more.

So I spoke with my dealer and he offered it to me to take home right then. I told him I couldn't pay for it until Jan. and he said thats fine give me payments on it until January and then pay me whatever you have. I almost came home with it, but I didn't because I need to get the DAC, Phono Pre-amp, ICs for them both and ICs for the preout of the Integra to the M3i so I can use the Bypass. He's working up a deal for me, and Ill talk with him tomorrow or Wednesday to see what the total price will be.

My OSP(sales rep) said that when we put on Foos both times, that he felt that he had never heard anything that good ever. It sounded so good he said. He loves the F260s. We both agreed that the IA was great with rock music, which is more of what I listen to, but I still want to hear it broke in some more and check out more jazz and blues. Im gonna see when I can get out there to hear it agian. I really liked it tho. Very good. Im already measuring the TV stand to see if it will fit. I kinda hear the Creek just to be sure.... But the MF is fantastic. The way the soundstage gets laidout and the seperations of instruments, the tonal quality is so good.

So when are you going to buy the Speed Box SE?

If I have time to get over there tomorrow then I'll pick it up, sometime this week for sure. If I can save $280 on it buying it now instead of later it makes sense to get it now.

Was the IA hooked up to the X-16's before the 260's? It most likely sounded better the more you listened to it as it was warming up, I always notice mine sounds better after 15-20 minutes of operation. You should also check out the Creek but since you have a really good dealer I'm sure he'll put together a nice deal that you'll have a hard time passing up. NOBODY around does anything like the payments you get, your really lucky in that regard. That's a good idea to listen to the MF again, then go listen to the Creek and the MF one last time. How were the 260's the second time around?

Steve glad you got to hear the M3i IA sounds like a great amp indeed, Now since you want to hear the Creek Evolution, I suggest you give a try to the 5i too, please do :D.

Sounds like you enjoyed the audition greatly, So when Are you buing it? :D

Yeah, it was connected to the X16s the first time, then I wanted to make sure that it could power something more difficult to drive if I were to upgrade one day. He didn't have a Sony or Panny BDP on hand, so he connected the MF M3CD and it was good. That too had just come out of the box so it wasn't fully broke in. I need to figure out how to hear the Creek with my speakers. Im also going to ask my dealer to get me a price on the Nait 5i, I know how Naim sounds, so Im gonna see if he will get me a good price on one also.

The one thing I can say is that I really liked it, just not sure I really loved it. I think its mostly because I have the others stuck in my head that I need to hear also. I am very lucky that I have him as a dealer, he works with me in ways I can't imagine. I know it will be a great deal. Probably about $1600 for everything. However, I want to love what I get, and so I have to make sure that the M3i is the right one for me, or if I need to go a different direction. I definetly want a second audition. Rock music is fantastic on it tho. The 260s were great. They really are a tremendous speakers, neutral. A lot liek the Contours.

I know what Naim and Dynaudio sound like. I need to just find whats the best IA for me. It could still be the MF, but Im not gonna make that purchase until I know for sure.

I think the problem is that you don't have much else to compare it to in it's price range, for your piece of mind you should listen to both the Creek and the Naim. What was it you thought was missing with the MF that didn't make you fall in love with it?

One thing you are going to fall in love with all over again is your TT, with what your having done it'll be like getting a brand new table. Just finished using my stylus cleaning kit and gave Beastie Boys Ill Communication a good cleaning for it's first spin, after that I think it'll be some ZZ Top.

Thats the thing, there isn't much I have compared it too in my price range. Hearing the Creek is not going to be easy tho. Its on the west side of LA, and that is a drive and a 3-4 hr trip. Plus Id have to take my speakers as they don't carry Dynaudio out there. That means explaining to the wife that Im taking them on a long drive to hear an amp, and she has to use the TV speakers. The Nait 5i is familiar to me based on what I have heard at Marios house with his XS.

Its not that it was lacking. It was fantastic, but you know if Im gonna spend $1600 on an Amp and other components, then I want to know that I got the best thing possible, and that Im in love with it so Im not second guessing what I bought. I have to be sure. 3 months from now, I don't want to be trading it in for a Naim Nait 5i, you know what I mean? I did love the Foo Fighters tho, it sounded so good on that IA. It really does a great job with rock music and making it sound like a concert.

Your so lucky that you have that TT. I can't wait to get my TT back and spin some vinyl and start buying some again. It will be like a new TT. Im surprised they did so much.

Are you going to get the Foo Fighters on vinyl? I've thought about it and had the album in hand a couple of times but it's expensive here, $45. I don't know if I like it that much to double dip for that price.
Did you find the Class A to be very smooth? I find when my Parasound is operating in Class A it's really smooth. I find the Marantz that I have has a good foundation but lacks the last few percent to make it really good, I'd like more power and control over the speakers, also a bit smoother top end to it. That's one thing that I always read about the Marantz Reference gear is the really smooth, sweet highs that they have. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to keep my cdp, I don't really want to spend almost $2k on a used one. If I feel that's it's lacking at a later date I'll look into adding a DAC rather than replacing it. It doesn't play SACD's but I don't really listen to them so for me it's not an issue.

I'm surprised that they put that much work into your table as well, your dealer really came through for you. It's almost turning out to be a good thing that you broke it. Just listened to the first side of Ill Communication and forgot how good of an album it is. Time for side two.

IDK I think that the Foos album on vinyl is a little pricey to double dip on that one, maybe Ill find it used and get a great deal on it. I think in some ways it was just breaking in and wasn't as good as it should have been, maybe. But the setup was very good, and getting better the more I listened. At first it was a little soft, and fuzzy sounding like I said, but then it opened up and sounded so much better. I only had 30 mins to listen so I was going from one CD to the next, I need to go back and hear it again. When I was playing rock/alternative it sounded great, blues very very good, but with orchestra, it wasn't as good as I think I want it to be. I think a lot of that has to do with breaking in, and I was rushing the audition too.

Next time you go ask your dealer to let it play about an hour before you get there, it'll be nice and warmed up by then, I find that makes a difference. Hopefully you can get a good solid hour to sit and listen to it before you have to make a choice. It also takes awhile just to get used to the sound of something, I think at first we all probably listen too hard and get a bit distracted. Especially if your rushed, a longer more relaxed audition is definitely called for.

I agree whole heartedly. I think a longer more relaxed audition would be best. I would have had one if not for the break in at work. I was gonna spend about 2 hrs there and just really check it out. And youre right, it does take a while to get used to the sound of something.

I wonder if he would let me take it home and audition it in the house with a V-DAC and some ICs for a couple days... Im sure he would, heck he said I don't have to pay for it for til January. Then I can play all the CDs and stuff I want on it. Thing is Id feel bad if I don't love it afterwards.

Tell him you'll take it home and break it in for him, you'll be doing him a favor by having it operating at it's full potential for future clients.:D I don't think you'll feel bad not loving it but it'll pretty much force you to buy something from him, if you don't then that's when you'll feel bad. Would he let you take the Naim home afterwards?

Friggin' tweakers. Sounds like it was not as bad as it could of been. Fuel line repairs suck though.

In other news... congrats on the wheeling and dealing toward the new gear!:rock:

we fixed the fuel line, but the breather tube to the fuel pump on the gas tank is cut too, and we cant fix it without dropping the fuel tank, so its gonna have to be towed.

Thanks. I just need to see what the best IA for me is and then go get the best deal. I did like the MF, so maybe Ill audition it again a little more broke in.

Got a question, or 3, since many of us are bookshelf owners and fans.

When to upgrade to a floorstander?

When I hear about people wanting to drop 3 or 400 bucks on Polk towers, I always say they will be better served by buying a 3-400 dollar bookshelf, right?

The thing is I was looking at 2-3 grand speakers this weekend, mostly towers. The difference between a $400 Polk tower and a $400 B&W bookshelf is drastic, detail and clarity. Getting further up there the differences are more subtle. A $3,000 bookshelf and a $3, 000 tower should both give nice detail. And the bookshelf won't give dramatically better detail in this case. At what price point would you say screw the bookshelf speakers?

Honestly, if you had a choice between two speakers like Dynaudio X-32s (no link you know them) and Spendor SA1 http://www.spendoraudio.com/HTML/SA_line.html which one would you pick? I heard the 3/5 before and it blew me away. next trip to Taipei will hunt down some SA1s or maybe towers A6s for about the same price.:confused:

Mmm, tough choice but generally speaking if you want to get the most of your 3K Monitor speakers you need really good gear, I really don't know what to say on this, All I can say is that a 3K Monitor speaker like the Focus 160 vs the X32 persay should truly depend on your choice, I would choose the tower in this case if I were to fill a larger room. again the Focus 160 should have plenty of drive and should fill a rather large room. Would also depend on the amount of resolution you want, honestly it becomes an application choice at that point, if you are crazy audiophile and looking for absolute best quality and resolution maybe you go with the monitor, if you listen to large variety of stufff and need to fill a larger room matbe you go with an X32 but the X32 is quite reveailing of the source.

Anyways it's a matter of choice at that point, if you ask me 1.5K Monitors or 1.5K Towers, i take the Monitor hands down.

I thik 3K is a price pint where the Gap between Towers and Monitor is considerably narrowed down but you may still end up preferring the Monitor. You can ask Andrew wheter he prefered the studio 100 vs the Signature 2 v3, I think the Signature edge them in almost every aspect except bass.

They won't fill a room as much as he would like them to do.

Id say as you go up the chain the field begins to level and you get something that is more on equal footing. However take the $3500 Dyn Contour S1.4, and the $4900 Focus 260s, the Contours offer better imaging, soundstage, detail retreival. But the Focus 260s bass and output will be better then that of the Contour monitor speaker. So there will still be trade offs, but they do get smaller and smaller. Of course cross comparing brands is harder to do, then lines within a same company. That you have to go with your ear.

Another thing is, what speaker gives you the best musical presentation? If a speaker/receiver combo gives you that toe-tapping, head bobbing feeling over one that is more detail oriented, which is better? Thats a personal preference. Id rather my system have more synergy and rhythm then resolve ever last piece of detail. Again, another trade off.

Olivier check the amp threads.

Yup you're reinforcing my point basically there is no right or wrong answer to this question, At that point they are all good speakers, with some trade off both ways.

I will check the amps thread :D

Thanks. I feel about the same way; at $1.5K monitors, at $3K towers.

Bass is a word I read a few times in your posts, not much of a concern; prefer the crisp, clear details. Not into Metal or Hip Hop, so monitors may do it for a 2 ch setup. I listen to some classic Rock n Roll (CCR, Pink Floyd, Beatles), Jazz (Archie Shepp, Chet Baker), Blues (SRV, Joe Bonamassa), Female Vocalists (Eva Cassidy, Diana Krall), and Classical (Paganini, Bach). In Taiwan, I cannot see ever having a really big room. My current speakers, and sub, have never left me wanting a bigger sound. Just want more detail.

I've always wanted a full range speakers, so I could listen to music without a sub. But the more I think about it, I'd rather put the cash towards the most detailed speaker I could find, whether it goes down to 30Hz or 65Hz doesn't matter as much.

Thanks again for answering the questions about my dreams, which may not come true for a long, long time.:(

So Travis a speaker like the X12 or the Totem Rainmaker would have plenty of low end extension and have more than enough reloution to truly enjoy your jazz Music, both retail for 1200 in the US actually the Rainmaker is starts at 1100$ but could be more depending on finish.

I know the X12 is available in your area.

No Totem speakers here. Buy Dynaudio is everywhere now. Before I used to see Wharfedale and B&W all over Taipei. this weekend many shops have Dyns in their windows.

Travis, something like the x16s will offer you a lot of bass and great detail. It comes a an affordable price too. Most musics low end is around 40 Hz. So a monitor that produces good bass and plenty of detail and sound staging should work great for you.

I think I could swing up to the price point of the X-32s. Then the real question is do I stay with that, which is an awesome speaker, or go to another brand and get a monitor for that cash. If I was forced to buy tomorrow, I'd get the X-32s. With time to think, maybe a monitor from a different company.:confused:

I went from a pair of $3600 (msrp) to a set of $3400 (msrp) bookshelves and each have their own set of positive's and negative's. It's not only how low a speakers reach's, it's also the output that they'll have at the croosover point of your sub. Obviously the towers are going to have greater output with creates a more seemless blend with the sub. With the towers I was able to perfectly integrate my sub, you couldn't even tell it was on. The tower speakers sounded absolutely huge, a sub can usually play anything in the lower octaves with less distortion that a smaller speaker. This also depends on what sub your using, I've been using big, powerful sealed subs for a few years and need the extra output in that region compared to the bookshelves. A sub with less output capability's will be easier to integrate.
On to the bookshelves, for roughly the same outlay of cash you will get superior construction and parts used vs equally priced towers. This usually will give a more detailed and refined sound while sacrificing output and efficiency. Most monitor speakers are less efficient than there larger counterparts thus losing composure when pushing the speaker. I've seen some of the listening levels you have posted and you'll be starting to hit the limits. Most people will say that they'll easily handle that and some might but I seem to have high standard's that may conflict with others views, so take each side with a grain of salt.
Another thing that you may want to think about is whether your using towers or monitors when you get into this price range and quality you'll start to find most AVR's lacking in power to get the best out of the speaker. I would recommend at least a two channel amp, right now that's what I'm doing and taking the mains off the AVR helped it out quite a bit.

I don't know if this helps at all, tell me if there's something I've left out. ( it's 100% certain that I have ) Take the size of your room into account and see if your dealer has a similar sized room you can audition in. Try out both and eventually take home the winner.

What is it that you are seeking for Travis, The X16 would give you some serious bass in your room, if your going to spend that much on the X32 why not give a try to the 2.9k Focus 160 Monitor, pretty much the same price?

For that amount of money get the Focus 160s.

Hey Andrew, did you happen to call that dealer in toronto to see if they have focus line? Also if they have the Contour S 1.4s you should hear them and see how they compare to your S2s.

I thought about it this afternoon and then got distracted with something else, when I got off work I was again distracted getting the Speed Box and playing around with it. I'll leave a note for my wife to call and remind me tomorrow. Lately I've been very happy with the S2's in their current application, vinyl seems to agree with them. They seem to be getting better the more I upgrade my gear, it will be interesting to see how they'll stack up against the Dyn's.

Ill be curious as to what you think of the Dyns, esp, the Focus and Contours.

I've been thinking that it doesn't really make any sense to switch speakers unless it's going to be a significant upgrade, it's just not worth the added cost. Unfortunately that has me thinking of trying to hear the C1's, which is probably a bad idea. I'll give whatever they've got a listen and hopefully they'll have a descent selection. I've mentally resigned myself to buying the S6's for downstairs when the time comes so the S2's are my reference speakers for two channel at the moment. I'm going to put the Studio 20's up for sale sometime soon.

Good morning Steve:)
Hope you and your family are healthy again!

thanks Bill.... well I am the only one that hasn't thrown up yet. Im at work and will probably leave early to go home and help. I have a meeting today that I need to go to for a large customer, otherwise i would have stayed home.

What's up Steve? Having the family sick sucks and hopefully everyone feels better soon.

I got some both good and bad news when I called the Dyn dealer in Dundas today. First the good news is that they have a good selection of Dyn's on hand, the whole Excite series except for the X-16's, the entire Contour line, the C1's and C4's along with the Sapphire's. The bad news is that they're closed for the long weekend!!:mad::( So I guess I'm not going to be able to hear any this trip and I'll concentrate on everything but the speakers in the two channel system for now.

I went and picked up one of the Cambridge Audio DAC's today so another piece is complete, I didn't feel like paying the price tag for one of the Marantz Reference cdp's, this with my current cdp should be a good compromise. What I really need next is some sort of descent power distributor, I'm using a really crappy Radio Shack surge protector right now. Hopefully I can make a choice regarding a new IA and get something next week.

The majority of everyone is over their flu, I never got it, just my oldest daughter has it now. Me, I have just lost a lot of sleep.

Figures they wouldn't have the X16s. Thats ok, the X32s and X16s are very close to one another. The 32s offer a little better overall presentation, so you can figure what you hear from them, is basically what you will hear from the 16s. You should tell the wife that you need to get out to toronto one day earlier then expected! Right before the store closes.

Yeah, I saw your DAC purchase. Ill pick that up in your thread.

That's good to hear that everyone is on the mend. Our son has a therapy session tomorrow that can't be missed and by the time that's over it'll be too late to get there before the store closes. I was planning on heading over there on Sat. but that's not going to happen. Maybe I'll see if we can stay one day later instead of getting there earlier. I'd have to bribe my wife with another day of shopping so it might cost me some $$$.