Kino/Lober's Black Sabbath (1963)

[risky1975]

Thought you guy's might want to know.. i got a message from Kino/Lober Directly on FB stating that the Blu Of Black Sabbath will not have the AIP version included, only Italian Version w/Subtitles ..So there you have it Arrow's Version will be the all time Definitive version of this film and imo the only one to buy...If you are not region free this and the hammer films alone should be enough reason to go region free.. best thing i ever did as a movie fan...

[bigshot]

As far as I'm concerned, the only advantage of the AIP version is having Karloff in English with his own voice. The movie itself is a million times better in the Italian version that Bava himself approved.

I feel differently about Black Sunday because of Les Baxter's great score for that picture.

[RiFiFi1955]

Are they actually different cuts of the film or is it just the language that differs?

[Metallix87]

Oh well, I guess I'll just import the Arrow Blu-Ray when I get my region free 3D player later this year.

[risky1975]

Yaeh there are two completely different cut's.. i much prefer the AIP american version.. but it's all a matter of opinion ..but check this out

Black Sabbath - The Arrow Video Story - YouTube

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by risky1975

Yaeh there are two completely different cut's.. i much prefer the AIP american version.. but it's all a matter of opinion ...

I have to disagree

The Italian version is actually more explicit/graphic. In addition to the better score -- Les Baxter's score is very clearly inferior -- The Telephone, which I consider to be the best segment, has a very different structure.

It is a great idea to listen to Tim Lucas' audio commentary in its entirety.

Pro-B

[bigshot]

The AIP version censors a few shots of The Wirdlak, and completely butchers the Telephone. Apparently the lesbian subtext was too much for US audiences, so they rewrote the script completely when they dubbed to English, making it a ghost story. Also, the order of the segments is juggled around in the US version, totally throwing off the pacing of the movie. There is also a different music track on the US version, which is considerably less atmospheric. Like I said, the only advantage of the AIP version is Karloff speaking in his own voice.

[bigshot]

You should put that video in a spoiler tag. I can't believe anyone would create a trailer for a movie and put the single most important shot in that sequence as the poster frame.

[Metallix87]

Originally Posted by bigshot

The AIP version censors a few shots of The Wirdlak, and completely butchers the Telephone. Apparently the lesbian subtext was too much for US audiences, so they rewrote the script completely when they dubbed to English, making it a ghost story. Also, the order of the segments is juggled around in the US version, totally throwing off the pacing of the movie. There is also a different music track on the US version, which is considerably less atmospheric. Like I said, the only advantage of the AIP version is Karloff speaking in his own voice.

That's all irrelevant. As a horror fan, I want both cuts.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by bigshot

As far as I'm concerned, the only advantage of the AIP version is having Karloff in English with his own voice. The movie itself is a million times better in the Italian version that Bava himself approved.

But the Italian has different sequence, doesn't it?
In the US, the dead-woman plot first (which works as a warmup), The Telephone in the middle (where it should be), and the Boris Karloff segment as the "feature attraction" third.

All other changes, yes, some considerable localization, but imagine if Roger Corman's "Tales of Terror" had mixed the stories around.

[bigshot]

DVD Beaver has screencaps of the Kino version and it isn't even close to any of the other releases... flat contrast, dark, muddy, green, undersaturated. I cancelled my preorder. Kino needs to do better than that.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by bigshot

DVD Beaver has screencaps of the Kino version and it isn't even close to any of the other releases... flat contrast, dark, muddy, green, undersaturated. I cancelled my preorder. Kino needs to do better than that.

Don't cancel your pre-order or form an opinion based on what is posted on that site. The screencaptures posted there are misleading. They are not representative of what is in fact on the disc.

Pro-B

[bgart13]

If Kino's isn't as good as Arrow's, it's an extreme failure on their part. They've blown it on KIDNAPPED (no RABID DOGS), and the initial Dvd Beaver review for BLACK SABBATH is not positive (forget the rights issues for the AIP situation, if the image is anywhere close to what Gary posted...ugh). I feel bad for region locked Bava fans in the US.

[Mackattack57973]

Buuuump. Looks like Kino is reissuing this October 24th

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by Mackattack57973

Buuuump. Looks like Kino is reissuing this October 24th

Looks like only the AIP cut, though.

[redrunner97]

What exactly is the deal with the Bava titles? Should we be expecting another label to pick up the license for the Euro versions in the near future?
A Bay of Blood and Black Sabbath 4Ks would be a game changer.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by redrunner97

What exactly is the deal with the Bava titles? Should we be expecting another label to pick up the license for the Euro versions in the near future?
A Bay of Blood and Black Sabbath 4Ks would be a game changer.

Word has it the guy who owns most of the rights decided to massively increase the licensing costs, so both Arrow and Kino said "no thanks" and didn't renew any of them. B&BL isn't owned by the same guy as most of the others, hence why that one is getting a new release.

There's a French 4K of Black Sabbath out there from 2021 but it's not english-friendly and it's now OOP and very expensive.

[The Batman Professor]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

Word has it the guy who owns most of the rights decided to massively increase the licensing costs, so both Arrow and Kino said "no thanks" and didn't renew any of them. B&BL isn't owned by the same guy as most of the others, hence why that one is getting a new release.

There's a French 4K of Black Sabbath out there from 2021 but it's not english-friendly and it's now OOP and very expensive.

Alfredo Leone? I’ve worked with him on a project, and he’s really good to negotiate with. However at 97, he may be getting financial advice that he wasn’t before.

Having experience with Bava properties, the sad fact is that they don’t sell in the quantities you would expect.

[Doomhunter]

I’m really only into the Karloff part of the trilogy so what ever gives us the best version of that is what I’m in for

[The Batman Professor]

Yeah, I get what you’re saying. I have no idea where the rights will go.