Player decoding or Receiver decoding, that is the question

[Sir Terrence]

I know there has been much back and forth regarding the player doing the decoding or the receiver doing the decoding. However I would like to preface this question with this comment.

When you look at all of the myriad of issues regarding proper playback and getting the best sound, many folks have completely overlook the most important component chasing after minor benefits. Proper room acoustics play a far larger role in getting better performance than something as small as which component does the decoding. The arguement for which sounds better (if it actually does) belongs in the studio(which acoustics are tightly controlled) or in the upper 5-10% of the folks who actually have their room properly treated based on acoustical measurements. To actually answer the question of which is better, the answer is neither has any sonic benefits over the other. I will explain.

When the player does the decoding(or transcoding), the process of transcoding is lossless. In other words nothing is lost converting the bitstream to PCM to send to your receiver. All PIP audio will be mixed in along with the program audio, and the user has access to the audio of all interactive and program material. Whether you choose to do bass management and speaker alignment in the player, or the pcm audio is sent to the receiver for these functions, they are done in PCM because that is how the DSP chips function, is with PCM signals. So no matter which way you turn, the audio will have to be converted.

If the player passes the audio to the receiver in bitstream form, the receiver will have to convert that bitstream to PCM for any bass mangement or speaker alignment to take place. That process is also lossless, and is much like we have seen with legacy Dolby Digital and Dts. The drawback is that no audio from PIP or any interactive material will be heard because this process bypasses the internal mixer of the player. So no matter which direction you choose, PCM conversion will have to take place whether the player does it, or the reciever does it. In the end, there is no sonic benefit that either has over the other, and why when looked at critically, the receiver doing it becomes a marketing ploy and nothing else.

I hope this dispels the confusion between the player doing the decoding, and the receiver doing the decoding. And then, maybe not

[crackinhedz]

Thanks Terrence for giving us an Audio Insider perspective on player vs. receiver decoding.

I asked Terrence for his insight mainly to clear the air on this topic as it has become apparent that some folks out there conclude that the Receiver decoding is superior to Player decoding and vice versa, when in reality that is not the whole case.

Feel free to share experiences, make comments and/or ask any questions, however I cannot promise Sir Terrence will personally respond as he has his own Insider thread that he is currently involved with...

Thanks!

[Vlad44]

'quality' as i understand mostly depends from DAC, not from 'stream data to LPCM' decoder or its placement (in or out of player).
panny BD50 gonna show us benefits of internal decoding...

[Sir Terrence]

Originally Posted by Vlad44

'quality' as i understand mostly depends from DAC, not from 'stream data to LPCM' decoder or its placement (in or out of player).
panny BD50 gonna show us benefits of internal decoding...

Bingo!!

[crackinhedz]

Sir T,

since audio via HDMI bitstream and LPCM is decoded with the same quality, and eventually passed through the same DAC ...what do you think the reasoning is for why people feel that one sounds better than the other? Is it all psychological or can there be some truth to it?

[Leopold BUTTERS]

can't wait to get my new Sharp BD HP50 so it can decode DTS MA HD I don't care if the thing is overpriced :P all i want is my PCM DDTHD and DTS MA HD decoded for me.

[Sir Terrence]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

Sir T,

since audio via HDMI bitstream and LPCM is decoded with the same quality, and eventually passed through the same DAC ...what do you think the reasoning is for why people feel that one sounds better than the other? Is it all psychological or can there be some truth to it?

Its the placebo effect. When you do not fully understand how the process works, it is easy for you to believe that you are getting better by holding on to how it WAS done. Also people just have to justify why they just spent more money on new equipment. There is no super duper decoding chips in receivers. Generally the same decoding chipset you see in the player is the same as you see in the receiver. The conversion process in the player and the receiver is the same(conversion to PCM). Both are lossless.

I think most folks look at DVD decoding in the player as inferior(which because of useless or inadequate bass management and delay) as the same as decoding in a bluray player(which has much better bass management and speaker alignment options) in the same way. In this case. it is just not true.

[xxjjkat7]

Guys

IF I may, I am new here.
Can anyone help me please. (its with my home theatre setup)
I have the Logitech Z5500's 5.1 surround speakers, connected to a PS3 via Optical as well as an HD Cable box connected to the Logitech via Optical.(Keep in mind i have the cable box and PS3 connected to a DLP Projector)
Mainly as you can see, each time i want to either use the ps3 , or the HD cable box, i have to disconnect the Optical from the ps3, if i want to watch cable and same goes for the cable when i want to watch a dvd on the ps3. Thing is this, my main problem is, everytime i either watch a DVD on the ps3, i cant get any DTS sound , same goes with when i switch to High Def digital channels on the HD Cable box, no dolby or DTS signal comes through. When i change the channel on the HD cable box to a lower channel which is a non HD channel, all i can do is hear my sound on Stereo 2x.0, no Dolby Digital or DTS


I need help, can anyone assist?
All i want to do is enjoy my logitech Z5500's with the best sound qualitiy utilized.

I wanted to get a receiver and see if i can connect the receiver to the logitech z5500's.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by xxjjkat7

Guys

IF I may, I am new here.
Can anyone help me please. (its with my home theatre setup)
I have the Logitech Z5500's 5.1 surround speakers, connected to a PS3 via Optical as well as an HD Cable box connected to the Logitech via Optical.(Keep in mind i have the cable box and PS3 connected to a DLP Projector)
Mainly as you can see, each time i want to either use the ps3 , or the HD cable box, i have to disconnect the Optical from the ps3, if i want to watch cable and same goes for the cable when i want to watch a dvd on the ps3. Thing is this, my main problem is, everytime i either watch a DVD on the ps3, i cant get any DTS sound , same goes with when i switch to High Def digital channels on the HD Cable box, no dolby or DTS signal comes through. When i change the channel on the HD cable box to a lower channel which is a non HD channel, all i can do is hear my sound on Stereo 2x.0, no Dolby Digital or DTS


I need help, can anyone assist?
All i want to do is enjoy my logitech Z5500's with the best sound qualitiy utilized.

I wanted to get a receiver and see if i can connect the receiver to the logitech z5500's.

There are a couple of things you need to understand first:

1) Not all DVD's have a DTS soundtrack as an option. It was very rare to have your choice of DD or DTS on a DVD (ie. extended versions of Lord of the Rings). Make sure the DVD that's playing has a DTS track to begin with. Lastly, make sure your PS3 is outputting bitstream over "optical digital" instead of LPCM.

2) On cable boxes, only HD cable channels will broadcast DD. All other channels (ie. SD) will only broadcast in stereo. You will never get DTS from a cable box as Dolby is used exclusively. If you are watching an HD channel and no DD is coming through, then you need to configure your cable box audio setup to pass the raw bitstream to your Logitech. Right now, it sounds like you may have it set up to downconvert to 2 channel.

[Bruuce]

Great OP. Thanks for clearing that up for us, Sir Terrence.

[XSilentCobraX]

Originally Posted by Sir Terrence

I know there has been much back and forth regarding the player doing the decoding or the receiver doing the decoding. However I would like to preface this question with this comment.

When you look at all of the myriad of issues regarding proper playback and getting the best sound, many folks have completely overlook the most important component chasing after minor benefits. Proper room acoustics play a far larger role in getting better performance than something as small as which component does the decoding. The arguement for which sounds better (if it actually does) belongs in the studio(which acoustics are tightly controlled) or in the upper 5-10% of the folks who actually have their room properly treated based on acoustical measurements. To actually answer the question of which is better, the answer is neither has any sonic benefits over the other. I will explain.

When the player does the decoding(or transcoding), the process of transcoding is lossless. In other words nothing is lost converting the bitstream to PCM to send to your receiver. All PIP audio will be mixed in along with the program audio, and the user has access to the audio of all interactive and program material. Whether you choose to do bass management and speaker alignment in the player, or the pcm audio is sent to the receiver for these functions, they are done in PCM because that is how the DSP chips function, is with PCM signals. So no matter which way you turn, the audio will have to be converted.

If the player passes the audio to the receiver in bitstream form, the receiver will have to convert that bitstream to PCM for any bass mangement or speaker alignment to take place. That process is also lossless, and is much like we have seen with legacy Dolby Digital and Dts. The drawback is that no audio from PIP or any interactive material will be heard because this process bypasses the internal mixer of the player. So no matter which direction you choose, PCM conversion will have to take place whether the player does it, or the reciever does it. In the end, there is no sonic benefit that either has over the other, and why when looked at critically, the receiver doing it becomes a marketing ploy and nothing else.

I hope this dispels the confusion between the player doing the decoding, and the receiver doing the decoding. And then, maybe not

This is great info, thanks alot, really did help me alot

[cembros]

i have the bdp s300, does his mean that if i get a receiver that decodes true hd and dts master i can hear those formats even though my player does not decode them?

[JimPullan]

Originally Posted by cembros

i have the bdp s300, does his mean that if i get a receiver that decodes true hd and dts master i can hear those formats even though my player does not decode them?

YES, as long as the BDP-S300 bitstreams the advanced audio codec's to the receiver. [Jim]

[Stephan.klose]

Originally Posted by JimPullan

YES, as long as the BDP-S300 bitstreams the advanced audio codec's to the receiver. [Jim]

the only audio codec that a BDP-S 300 can decode is Dolby Digital Plus...

[Sir Terrence]

Originally Posted by cembros

i have the bdp s300, does his mean that if i get a receiver that decodes true hd and dts master i can hear those formats even though my player does not decode them?

No, because the S300 cannot pass the native bitstream signal to the receiver.

[cembros]

why can it not pass the bitstream?

[prerich]

Originally Posted by Sir Terrence

I know there has been much back and forth regarding the player doing the decoding or the receiver doing the decoding. However I would like to preface this question with this comment.

When you look at all of the myriad of issues regarding proper playback and getting the best sound, many folks have completely overlook the most important component chasing after minor benefits. Proper room acoustics play a far larger role in getting better performance than something as small as which component does the decoding. The arguement for which sounds better (if it actually does) belongs in the studio(which acoustics are tightly controlled) or in the upper 5-10% of the folks who actually have their room properly treated based on acoustical measurements. To actually answer the question of which is better, the answer is neither has any sonic benefits over the other. I will explain.

When the player does the decoding(or transcoding), the process of transcoding is lossless. In other words nothing is lost converting the bitstream to PCM to send to your receiver. All PIP audio will be mixed in along with the program audio, and the user has access to the audio of all interactive and program material. Whether you choose to do bass management and speaker alignment in the player, or the pcm audio is sent to the receiver for these functions, they are done in PCM because that is how the DSP chips function, is with PCM signals. So no matter which way you turn, the audio will have to be converted.

If the player passes the audio to the receiver in bitstream form, the receiver will have to convert that bitstream to PCM for any bass mangement or speaker alignment to take place. That process is also lossless, and is much like we have seen with legacy Dolby Digital and Dts. The drawback is that no audio from PIP or any interactive material will be heard because this process bypasses the internal mixer of the player. So no matter which direction you choose, PCM conversion will have to take place whether the player does it, or the reciever does it. In the end, there is no sonic benefit that either has over the other, and why when looked at critically, the receiver doing it becomes a marketing ploy and nothing else.

I hope this dispels the confusion between the player doing the decoding, and the receiver doing the decoding. And then, maybe not

Vlad44 is right, quality is dependent on the D/A converter and chipset used. I personally do not want to upgrade an entire receiver/pre-pro yet - so I will be on the look out for a standalone with 7.1 out (that has an excellent converter). TrueHD can be passed via an analog 7.1 output (not sure about DTS Master).

[MatrixS2000]

^ looking for a standalone with analogs out is not a good route to go imo.

Most people want the standalone to be cheap, therefore, manufacturers are not going to be putting high quality DACs in them into the cheaper players.

[spyweb]

Hello all,

I am new at this site and I am also very new to the Hi-def world.

I am planning to buy a PS3 and the pioneer VSX-918V-K receiver.
Will I be able to listen to the lossless LPCM signal even if the receiver dosen't decode Dolby THD or DTS-HD Master Audio?

The receiver has 2 hdmi A/V imputs, however, I still haven't figured out what hdmi version the pioneer supports.

I am sorry if this question was asked before, but I looked at different posts and I couldn't find a specific answer.

P.S. I have chosen this reciver exclusively for its price tag and for the hdmi imputs; however, any suggestions regarding a similar receiver within the same price range (< 300) are very very welocome (and strongly encouraged .)


Thank you very much for your help.

[yipcheah]

Originally Posted by Sir Terrence

I know there has been much back and forth regarding the player doing the decoding or the receiver doing the decoding. However I would like to preface this question with this comment.

When you look at all of the myriad of issues regarding proper playback and getting the best sound, many folks have completely overlook the most important component chasing after minor benefits. Proper room acoustics play a far larger role in getting better performance than something as small as which component does the decoding. The arguement for which sounds better (if it actually does) belongs in the studio(which acoustics are tightly controlled) or in the upper 5-10% of the folks who actually have their room properly treated based on acoustical measurements. To actually answer the question of which is better, the answer is neither has any sonic benefits over the other. I will explain.

When the player does the decoding(or transcoding), the process of transcoding is lossless. In other words nothing is lost converting the bitstream to PCM to send to your receiver. All PIP audio will be mixed in along with the program audio, and the user has access to the audio of all interactive and program material. Whether you choose to do bass management and speaker alignment in the player, or the pcm audio is sent to the receiver for these functions, they are done in PCM because that is how the DSP chips function, is with PCM signals. So no matter which way you turn, the audio will have to be converted.

If the player passes the audio to the receiver in bitstream form, the receiver will have to convert that bitstream to PCM for any bass mangement or speaker alignment to take place. That process is also lossless, and is much like we have seen with legacy Dolby Digital and Dts. The drawback is that no audio from PIP or any interactive material will be heard because this process bypasses the internal mixer of the player. So no matter which direction you choose, PCM conversion will have to take place whether the player does it, or the reciever does it. In the end, there is no sonic benefit that either has over the other, and why when looked at critically, the receiver doing it becomes a marketing ploy and nothing else.

I hope this dispels the confusion between the player doing the decoding, and the receiver doing the decoding. And then, maybe not

Dear Sir Terence,

I have a Primare SP 21 with excellent sound output for DTS and DD1.5. However it do not have HDMI input for HD codec such as STD HD and Dolby Tru HD. I intend to get the Pana DMP BD 50 Bluray player which has on board decoding for most of the latest sound codec. However, would my sound performance be better if I would to let the player does the decoding and connect the analogue 5.1 PCM output signal to the reciever anaolgue input directly for all blu ray movies in HD codec. I heard that 5.1 PCM signal output is definitely a better than the normal DTS or DD 1.5 output in bitstream format. Whay say you.