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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Subwoofers


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Old 09-13-2015, 09:26 AM   #1
ECrispy ECrispy is offline
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Default Can you mix subs?

If I combine a good sub (from ID company) with a budget sub, is the result good or bad? Will the budget sub overshadow the tight bass? I was hoping it would supplement the mid bass regions.

The 2 subs I am considering are an old SVS cylinder sub, and a Klipsch 12, which is considered one of the best budget options.
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Old 09-13-2015, 11:24 AM   #2
Billy13 Billy13 is offline
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Doesn't hurt to try it out.

No matter what others may say, you have to find out for yourself. And assuming you have both already.....why not find out with first hand experience, and not hear say
~ HT HYBRID ~
ACOUSTAT~ADCOM~EOSONE~HARMAN/KARDON~OPPO~PEACHTREE~SAMSUNG~SVS
~ VINTAGE HYBRID ~
AR/KLIPSCH~MASSIVE/CROWN~PARASOUND~PEACHTREE~PIONEER~YAQIN

~ BEDROOM HYBRID ~
CROWN~PARASOUND~PIONEER~POLK AUDIO~SAMSUNG~SVS~VMPS
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Old 09-13-2015, 04:11 PM   #3
Blu-Dog Blu-Dog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECrispy View Post
If I combine a good sub (from ID company) with a budget sub, is the result good or bad? Will the budget sub overshadow the tight bass? I was hoping it would supplement the mid bass regions.

The 2 subs I am considering are an old SVS cylinder sub, and a Klipsch 12, which is considered one of the best budget options.

Both are actually pretty good subs, with their limitation being the volume you play them at. Trying to rock the neighborhood with either one alone is a very bad idea...but playing both of them at the same time, turned down a bit, will give you spectacular results.


What you want in a sub is pervasive sound. It should be omnipresent, solid, and not break up or be strong in one place (a "point") source. Many people make the mistake of comparing them..."this sub blows that sub away"...and that's not the point. Having one monster sub is good, but having two that are not as good but playing in concert is better.


I had the same problem when I first set up my theater. In a fairly large room, I had two of the Klipsch 12 subs, which is definitely decent, if you don't push it until it farts. I played them together, but was looking to bring the thunder (my expectations were too high). What I found was that music was very nice indeed, but several tests I ran on movies (the Star Wars "Pod Race", the Master and Commander first sea battle) were a bit wanting. I didn't do enough "sub crawl" tests to determine placement, and just went out and got a JL Audio F113 and gave the subs to my kids.


As awesome as the F113 is, it was a point source. I finally found a place in the room where it worked, but I wanted more, and after much infantile whining, my wife bought a second one...and then for looks, bought two SVS SB-13 units to round them out. Now I have the sound volume and balanced sound.


But there is a limit to how loud you can go, without missing key elements in movies. Interstellar is a good example: it is a subwoofer extravaganza, but the Klipsch and SVS models you mention can deliver it very nicely indeed. When I watch it, I'm dialing back the subs - can't hear the dialogue! And the subwoofers rarely do anything...mostly just a meaningless drone in the soundtrack. I don't know what the hell they were doing, throwing massive sub in dialogue scenes, it's just strange.


So go for it. Don't worry about branding, and all that mess, use both subs. I'm sure it will work out.


Be ready to do the sub crawl, and find the best location for them for volume and tone. Don't push either of them too hard - they're ported and will sound very nasty if they clip. Fortunately, both were designed for smooth delivery if you don't run the individually too loudly, and when played together, they will deliver the goods.


Good luck, and have fun!
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Old 09-13-2015, 05:38 PM   #4
prerich prerich is offline
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Simple answer....yes, you can mix subs
Infinity Comp Prelude P-FR, Infinity Comp Overture 1 - center & front hght, 2 Infinity QPS-1 side, Infinty P-QPS rear hght, Infinity fps-1000 rear, Infinity Outrigger Jr. overheads, 2 AE AV15 Power Cube subwoofers, SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2 DCM Subs (rear), Denon AVR-X4300H (front hght and Prepro), Yamaha MX-830 (rear hght), B&K 200.7 Reference Amp, Behringer NU4-6000 (subs),miniDSP 2X4, BD HTPC, Tube DAC, NAS 20tb , Da-lite 16:9 106", Vivitek hk2288 4k proj, TCL Roku 4K TV.
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Old 09-13-2015, 09:48 PM   #5
ECrispy ECrispy is offline
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Thanks. I will have both the subs ready to setup next week, I'm going to get the Klipsch since its on sale at Fry's again.

I also need to rearrange my living room for speaker placement and will try the sub crawl then.
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Old 09-16-2015, 03:46 PM   #6
Blu-Dog Blu-Dog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post
Simple answer....yes, you can mix subs

You make it look too easy.
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Old 11-16-2015, 10:29 PM   #7
Auditor55 Auditor55 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECrispy View Post
If I combine a good sub (from ID company) with a budget sub, is the result good or bad? Will the budget sub overshadow the tight bass? I was hoping it would supplement the mid bass regions.

The 2 subs I am considering are an old SVS cylinder sub, and a Klipsch 12, which is considered one of the best budget options.
There are varying opinions on the topic of mixing subs.
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Old 11-17-2015, 01:18 AM   #8
Billy13 Billy13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
There are varying opinions on the topic of mixing subs.
And opinions are like....

First hand experience is a totally different thing. Not everyone has that.
~ HT HYBRID ~
ACOUSTAT~ADCOM~EOSONE~HARMAN/KARDON~OPPO~PEACHTREE~SAMSUNG~SVS
~ VINTAGE HYBRID ~
AR/KLIPSCH~MASSIVE/CROWN~PARASOUND~PEACHTREE~PIONEER~YAQIN

~ BEDROOM HYBRID ~
CROWN~PARASOUND~PIONEER~POLK AUDIO~SAMSUNG~SVS~VMPS
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Old 11-17-2015, 03:08 AM   #9
Badas Badas is offline
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In my situation it was hard to blend my two SVS sealed subs with an older Polk ported sub.

Got a good result in the end. However it took forever to get right and a lot of help from fellow members on this site.
Source: 2x Oppo BDP-103D's (Bluray, CD, and SACD), PS3, PS4, Project 1.3 turntable.
Amplification: Marantz SR7009, 2x Marantz MM7055's (10 amps bi-amping 5 channels).
Speakers: (Atmos 5.3.2): 4 x Polk RTiA7's, Polk CSP 1000, 2x Atlantic TLC-8.2, Polk PSW1200, 2x SVS SB Ultra 13's and triple buttkicker system.
Projection: Dreamvision Siglos 3 Tentation Ltd.
Headgear: iPod in Arcam Dock, Schiit Yggdrasil DAC, Woo WA22(tube amp), Violectric V281(SS amp), Ether Flow and AudioQuest NightHawks.

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Old 11-17-2015, 09:29 PM   #10
Auditor55 Auditor55 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badas View Post
In my situation it was hard to blend my two SVS sealed subs with an older Polk ported sub.

Got a good result in the end. However it took forever to get right and a lot of help from fellow members on this site.
You are the gentlemen I referenced in the SVS Sub thread that had to crack a whip at your two SB13's trying to get them tamed.

It is interesting that you were able mix a ported sub with two sealed subs, which those that argue against mixed subs warn against due to how sealed subs has gradual roll off and ported subs frequency response is like falling off a cliff.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:31 PM   #11
Auditor55 Auditor55 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy13 View Post
And opinions are like....

First hand experience is a totally different thing. Not everyone has that.
That's true.

Sometimes is good to "respectfully" debate these matters, pro and con arguments are really helpful to enthusiast trying to make decisions.
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Old 11-17-2015, 10:14 PM   #12
Canada Canada is offline
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Probably won't sound the best but it is way better than mixing the speakers that deal with treble.
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Old 11-17-2015, 10:17 PM   #13
Badas Badas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
You are the gentlemen I referenced in the SVS Sub thread that had to crack a whip at your two SB13's trying to get them tamed.

It is interesting that you were able mix a ported sub with two sealed subs, which those that argue against mixed subs warn against due to how sealed subs has gradual roll off and ported subs frequency response is like falling off a cliff.
Boy did I have to crack that whip. The two SVS's were terrifying. I thought it was going to do serious damage to the house.

Yeah. Roll off is a concern. As they act differently. In the end I made a decision. I did a sweep test and used my ears to work out the first frequency I could actually hear. I also used a SPL meter so I could see the needle response. The first frequency I could hear was 28hz. The SPL was reporting a lot of activity below 28hz also. So I made the call and killed frequencies below 30hz. Some might say that you may not hear below 28hz but you can feel it. It is a valid point. However I have the buttkicker system which can replicate that with far more effect right down to 5hz. So below 30hz was really not required. By rolling off 30hz and below it got rid of that scary stuff. Sounded a lot smoother also. So I'm pleased with the result.

I think by rolling off at 30hz it has smoothed the effect of roll off from two different types of subs. So in my situation it works. In other installs with no roll off two different subs could be problematic.
Source: 2x Oppo BDP-103D's (Bluray, CD, and SACD), PS3, PS4, Project 1.3 turntable.
Amplification: Marantz SR7009, 2x Marantz MM7055's (10 amps bi-amping 5 channels).
Speakers: (Atmos 5.3.2): 4 x Polk RTiA7's, Polk CSP 1000, 2x Atlantic TLC-8.2, Polk PSW1200, 2x SVS SB Ultra 13's and triple buttkicker system.
Projection: Dreamvision Siglos 3 Tentation Ltd.
Headgear: iPod in Arcam Dock, Schiit Yggdrasil DAC, Woo WA22(tube amp), Violectric V281(SS amp), Ether Flow and AudioQuest NightHawks.

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Billy13 (11-18-2015)
Old 12-08-2015, 06:21 PM   #14
Auditor55 Auditor55 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badas View Post
Boy did I have to crack that whip. The two SVS's were terrifying. I thought it was going to do serious damage to the house.

Yeah. Roll off is a concern. As they act differently. In the end I made a decision. I did a sweep test and used my ears to work out the first frequency I could actually hear. I also used a SPL meter so I could see the needle response. The first frequency I could hear was 28hz. The SPL was reporting a lot of activity below 28hz also. So I made the call and killed frequencies below 30hz. Some might say that you may not hear below 28hz but you can feel it. It is a valid point. However I have the buttkicker system which can replicate that with far more effect right down to 5hz. So below 30hz was really not required. By rolling off 30hz and below it got rid of that scary stuff. Sounded a lot smoother also. So I'm pleased with the result.

I think by rolling off at 30hz it has smoothed the effect of roll off from two different types of subs. So in my situation it works. In other installs with no roll off two different subs could be problematic.
What's your opinion about the lesser sub dragging down the performance of the better sub in a mixed sub system?
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:14 AM   #15
Blu-Dog Blu-Dog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
What's your opinion about the lesser sub dragging down the performance of the better sub in a mixed sub system?
I don't buy that view. There are too many factors in play to dismiss the "lesser" sub.


The most obvious is volume. Try to play is too loud results in a hash of sound, and no reason to run a contest between subs. Especially with automatic sound correction gear, and microphones - you just wind up with all these robots calling each other foul names and telling each " we'll settle this outside" and other crazy stuff, until the cops show up. Increase the gain, gradually, to maintain the peace.


The other glaring problem is what crossover they're playing at. Depending on what type of sub it is (ported or sealed, and power reserve), you may want to pick a different slope to have them actually complement each other. You can get more bass that way.


You've got to fool around with it...
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