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Old 03-25-2017, 04:52 PM   #1
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Default Velodyne ULD 15 series II vs SVS CS-Ultra

I love my Velodyne subs, but I ran across a deal on a pair of SVS CS-Ultras with original 500 wpc amp. These review awesome, anyone have a thought on if this would be an upgrade or not? They would cost me less than I could sell the Velodynes for.

The Velodynes are 15 inch sealed, with 400 watt servo controlled amp, the SVS 12 inch, ported, with 2 channel, 500+ WPC amp. The Velodynes are over 25 years old now. The SVS about 15.

Also, the SVS were designed with home theater in mind (which is what I use mine for), the surround is much larger than on my Velodynes. The Velodynes were made before "Home theater" was a thing.

Any thoughts,
Thanks.
Home Theater Sony VPL-HW45ES w/Elite Screens Tab Tensioned 125" screen. or Vizio 70"
PrePro Emotiva UMC-200 Amps 2xBryston 7B ST Monoblocks (mains), Harman Kardon signature 2.1 (surrounds & center), Samson S1000 (Subs) Speakers Mirage M-3si, Mirage M-Csi, BIC V-52 (x4) Subs 2 x SVS CS-Ultra Other PS3/PS4/XBox 2x Adcom ACE-515 Line Conditioner

2.0 System Schiit Modi Multibit DAC>Schiit Freya Tube preamp w/KEN-RAD VT-231 tubes>2xBryston 7B ST>Mirage M-3si.
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Old 03-25-2017, 05:53 PM   #2
Dwayne Dwayne is offline
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Velodyne sub's are top shelf equipment in the audio business. Being that your's are over 25yrs old tell's me that it's time to replace/upgrade. SVS sub's are the best in the business for Home Theater use as the majority of the people that frequent this website will tell you. I say go for it on the SVS CS-Ultra's because you can't go wrong with anything that sport's the logo SVS. Good luck
7.2 Denon 4520c.i. AVR, Sony 65" 4K HDR X900E, Monster HTS-1600, AMD Custom Built Computer/Media Player, Polk Audio RTi 12 Speaker's-Main's, Polk Audio CS-2 Center, JBL ES 80 Speaker's Surround, Polk Monitor 60 Surround Back, Acoustech 12" PL 200 Sub, Polk Audio 10" PSW 110 Sub, Sony BDP 570-SACD, Panasonic BDP 360 2.0 Onkyo 809 AVR, Polk Audio Monitor 70s, Audio Technica AT-LP-120
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:09 AM   #3
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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I picked up the SVS' today and have been listening to them all afternoon. The jury is still out on if I like them better or not. At this point, I am thinking not. I forget how freakin good the pair of ULD 15s are.

Before disconnecting the ULDs and hooking up the SVS', I put in Ironman (1), the opening scene is a great test. I hadn't watched it in a while, but even though I had heard it before, it still gave me a jaw dropping, spine tingling experience again. It sounded so freaking good.

I then switched over to the SVS' and I wasn't as impressed, not really even close. I have to watch it again tomorrow after having some time to get the levels better. I ran through my normal array of test material. IronMan Blue ray, P!nk- live in Australia Blu ray (If you haven't seen it, you should) and a 3 hour block of "bassy" music videos I recorded from Fuse (in DD 5.1) and a couple other random Blu Rays.

The SVS have a decent advantage in real low bass, but other than that, the ULDs sound much better across the rest of the bass range. One of the first things I noticed, was a loss of "warmth", even in dialog. The explosions in Iron man weren't as forceful, the SVS' would rattle the walls a bit more, but of the bass you can actually hear, it wasn't as enjoyable. And the ULDs will rattle the heck out of the walls when needed as well.

I am going to go out and pick up an XLR cable, so I can hook up both systems at the same time (My Prepro has XLR and RCA out for the Sub)

One other thing I noticed, is if you turn the volume on the SVS amp (Samson S1000) past 3 o'clock, you get a noticeable static hum coming through the subs, which is rather loud when volume is maxed. You would never hear it over any level of movie watching, but it bothers me anyway. With the volume set at 3 o'clock, I have to max out my sub out from the prepro at +10 dB.

The SVS' have more headroom than the ULDs, maybe considerably more. But the ULDs will blast everyone out of the house, I don't need more than that.

I'll test more tomorrow, and over the next few weeks, before I make my final decision.
Home Theater Sony VPL-HW45ES w/Elite Screens Tab Tensioned 125" screen. or Vizio 70"
PrePro Emotiva UMC-200 Amps 2xBryston 7B ST Monoblocks (mains), Harman Kardon signature 2.1 (surrounds & center), Samson S1000 (Subs) Speakers Mirage M-3si, Mirage M-Csi, BIC V-52 (x4) Subs 2 x SVS CS-Ultra Other PS3/PS4/XBox 2x Adcom ACE-515 Line Conditioner

2.0 System Schiit Modi Multibit DAC>Schiit Freya Tube preamp w/KEN-RAD VT-231 tubes>2xBryston 7B ST>Mirage M-3si.
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:19 PM   #4
prerich prerich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1138 View Post

I am going to go out and pick up an XLR cable, so I can hook up both systems at the same time (My Prepro has XLR and RCA out for the Sub)
You my friend are a perfect candidate for a MiniDSP 2x4 if you're using 4 subwoofers!!!! The ULD's are some of the best made for their time period and they are still highly respected. I have a pair of SVS CS 16-48 subs and a pair of P1512 subwoofers (15 inch driver and 2 18 inch passive radiators per cabinet). Each has their specific prowess, using the MiniDSP 2x4 and amplifying them on the same 4 channel amp (Behringer NU4-6000) - has blended these subs perfectly!
Infinity Comp Prelude P-FR, Infinity Comp Overture 1 - center & front hght, 2 Infinity QPS-1 side, Infinty P-QPS rear hght, Infinity fps-1000 rear, Infinity Outrigger Jr. overheads, 2 AE AV15 Power Cube subwoofers, SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2 DCM Subs (rear), Denon AVR-X4300H (front hght and Prepro), Yamaha MX-830 (rear hght), B&K 200.7 Reference Amp, Behringer NU4-6000 (subs),miniDSP 2X4, BD HTPC, Tube DAC, NAS 20tb , Da-lite 16:9 106", Vivitek hk2288 4k proj, TCL Roku 4K TV.
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Old 03-27-2017, 07:30 PM   #5
Dwayne Dwayne is offline
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I really appreciate your honesty on the SVS sub compared to your Velodynes. Maybe SVS is not for you. Looking forward to your final decision .
7.2 Denon 4520c.i. AVR, Sony 65" 4K HDR X900E, Monster HTS-1600, AMD Custom Built Computer/Media Player, Polk Audio RTi 12 Speaker's-Main's, Polk Audio CS-2 Center, JBL ES 80 Speaker's Surround, Polk Monitor 60 Surround Back, Acoustech 12" PL 200 Sub, Polk Audio 10" PSW 110 Sub, Sony BDP 570-SACD, Panasonic BDP 360 2.0 Onkyo 809 AVR, Polk Audio Monitor 70s, Audio Technica AT-LP-120
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Old 03-27-2017, 08:20 PM   #6
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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I just came home with a balanced XLR cable, and hooked it up and WOW... I don't know if there is a problem with the 1/4" input or the RCA to 1/4" adapter, but they sound like entirly different subs. Also, the static/hum is completely gone.

I'll report back after some more listening.
Home Theater Sony VPL-HW45ES w/Elite Screens Tab Tensioned 125" screen. or Vizio 70"
PrePro Emotiva UMC-200 Amps 2xBryston 7B ST Monoblocks (mains), Harman Kardon signature 2.1 (surrounds & center), Samson S1000 (Subs) Speakers Mirage M-3si, Mirage M-Csi, BIC V-52 (x4) Subs 2 x SVS CS-Ultra Other PS3/PS4/XBox 2x Adcom ACE-515 Line Conditioner

2.0 System Schiit Modi Multibit DAC>Schiit Freya Tube preamp w/KEN-RAD VT-231 tubes>2xBryston 7B ST>Mirage M-3si.

Last edited by brad1138; 03-27-2017 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 03-28-2017, 06:22 PM   #7
prerich prerich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1138 View Post
I just came home with a balanced XLR cable, and hooked it up and WOW... I don't know if there is a problem with the 1/4" input or the RCA to 1/4" adapter, but they sound like entirly different subs. Also, the static/hum is completely gone.

I'll report back after some more listening.
XLR's are the way to go if your runs are long or if you have the available ins/outs!
Infinity Comp Prelude P-FR, Infinity Comp Overture 1 - center & front hght, 2 Infinity QPS-1 side, Infinty P-QPS rear hght, Infinity fps-1000 rear, Infinity Outrigger Jr. overheads, 2 AE AV15 Power Cube subwoofers, SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2 DCM Subs (rear), Denon AVR-X4300H (front hght and Prepro), Yamaha MX-830 (rear hght), B&K 200.7 Reference Amp, Behringer NU4-6000 (subs),miniDSP 2X4, BD HTPC, Tube DAC, NAS 20tb , Da-lite 16:9 106", Vivitek hk2288 4k proj, TCL Roku 4K TV.
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:15 AM   #8
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post
XLR's are the way to go if your runs are long or if you have the available ins/outs!
This is only a 6 ft XLR cable. There was a definite increase in gain, at least 3 dB (as a guess), and it seemed fuller. I don't know if there was an issue with the 1/4" input on the Samson amp or what, but it certainly has made a noticeable improvement. Also, it looks cool
Home Theater Sony VPL-HW45ES w/Elite Screens Tab Tensioned 125" screen. or Vizio 70"
PrePro Emotiva UMC-200 Amps 2xBryston 7B ST Monoblocks (mains), Harman Kardon signature 2.1 (surrounds & center), Samson S1000 (Subs) Speakers Mirage M-3si, Mirage M-Csi, BIC V-52 (x4) Subs 2 x SVS CS-Ultra Other PS3/PS4/XBox 2x Adcom ACE-515 Line Conditioner

2.0 System Schiit Modi Multibit DAC>Schiit Freya Tube preamp w/KEN-RAD VT-231 tubes>2xBryston 7B ST>Mirage M-3si.
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Old 03-30-2017, 01:07 AM   #9
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Although I still need more testing, and the XLR made a sizable difference, the SVS is seriously lacking in the "mid to upper"subwoofer range. I am guessing that 40Hz is the turning point. Under that and there's no competition, SVS flat kicks butt. But over that, where a lot of explosions are heard (especially like the opening scene to Ironman) the Velo is MUCH more prominent. Also I should say, the Velo is rated flat to 16 Hz, so it is no slouch in that area, the SVS just has much more in that range.

I am going to play around with the built in PEQ in the emotiva. Yes I know I should get a computer program and do it right, but I don't have that, so I am going to wing it a bit and just go off my gut quite a lot of experience.

I love the real deep bass of the SVS' a lot, but if I try to crank them up a bit to bring up the upper range, the walls will start to come apart, and it really isn't pleasant (according to my wife )

I think I am going to try +6dB @ 80 Hz with about a 1 octave Q setting and maybe -3 dB @ 15-20 Hz, again with a 1 octave Q. And then go from there. I am shooting for sounding (more) like the Velos with more deep bass. I also read that the CS-Ultras can get carried away with really low/subsonic frequencies at high volumes, and it isn't a bad idea to have a filter cutting off below 15 Hz or so. I could set a PEQ setting @ -12 dB or -15 dB with slightly under a 1 octave Q at 10Hz.

I'll let you know how that goes.
Home Theater Sony VPL-HW45ES w/Elite Screens Tab Tensioned 125" screen. or Vizio 70"
PrePro Emotiva UMC-200 Amps 2xBryston 7B ST Monoblocks (mains), Harman Kardon signature 2.1 (surrounds & center), Samson S1000 (Subs) Speakers Mirage M-3si, Mirage M-Csi, BIC V-52 (x4) Subs 2 x SVS CS-Ultra Other PS3/PS4/XBox 2x Adcom ACE-515 Line Conditioner

2.0 System Schiit Modi Multibit DAC>Schiit Freya Tube preamp w/KEN-RAD VT-231 tubes>2xBryston 7B ST>Mirage M-3si.
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:36 AM   #10
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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OK, after enough time to get the levels (more or less) correct, and A/B with the Velos, the perceived lack of "mid to upper bass" from the SVS' isn't what I originally thought it was. The SVS' are really shining They are tighter and more dynamic. I noticed it in the drums in the P!nk concert, my wife noticed voices sounding clearer. Now, I am noticing it everywhere. The Velos are muddy by comparison. The Velos did have a bit more presence in that upper bass range, but not significant.

My previous post about boosting upper bass 6 dB was a bit ignorant, that is way more than needed. I did, with a Q setting of ~1 octave, increase 80 Hz by 2.5 dB and decreased 20 Hz by 1.5 dB, and I will continue to play around with those settings.

But the SVS' are nothing short of amazing, so damn happy I happened across that add. They ROCK

I did toy with the idea of keeping the Velos also, but I really don't want to add that muddyness back into the system, aside from needing the $. I am going to keep my eyes out for another set of the SVS' though
Home Theater Sony VPL-HW45ES w/Elite Screens Tab Tensioned 125" screen. or Vizio 70"
PrePro Emotiva UMC-200 Amps 2xBryston 7B ST Monoblocks (mains), Harman Kardon signature 2.1 (surrounds & center), Samson S1000 (Subs) Speakers Mirage M-3si, Mirage M-Csi, BIC V-52 (x4) Subs 2 x SVS CS-Ultra Other PS3/PS4/XBox 2x Adcom ACE-515 Line Conditioner

2.0 System Schiit Modi Multibit DAC>Schiit Freya Tube preamp w/KEN-RAD VT-231 tubes>2xBryston 7B ST>Mirage M-3si.
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Old 03-30-2017, 08:40 PM   #11
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Congratulations ........... and welcome to the DARK SIDE

I own a pair of what was once their entry level subs and I'm STILL impressed with them ............... I'm afraid of what an upgrade would do to this room

It reminds me of this video

Visuals by......
Panasonic~ Oppo

Audio by...
DUAL~ Grado ~ Yamaha ~ Pro-ject ~ Oppo ~ Vincent
Harman/Kardon~ Acoustic Research ~ Light Harmonics ~ acurus ~ Dahlquist
SVS
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Old 04-01-2017, 02:13 AM   #12
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After reading through this thread, I knew the OP would come around.
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ACOUSTAT~ADCOM~EOSONE~HARMAN/KARDON~OPPO~PEACHTREE~SAMSUNG~SVS
~ VINTAGE HYBRID ~
AR/KLIPSCH~MASSIVE/CROWN~PARASOUND~PEACHTREE~PIONEER~YAQIN

~ BEDROOM HYBRID ~
CROWN~PARASOUND~PIONEER~POLK AUDIO~SAMSUNG~SVS~VMPS
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Old 04-01-2017, 06:15 PM   #13
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Pulled and ready for sale



Home Theater Sony VPL-HW45ES w/Elite Screens Tab Tensioned 125" screen. or Vizio 70"
PrePro Emotiva UMC-200 Amps 2xBryston 7B ST Monoblocks (mains), Harman Kardon signature 2.1 (surrounds & center), Samson S1000 (Subs) Speakers Mirage M-3si, Mirage M-Csi, BIC V-52 (x4) Subs 2 x SVS CS-Ultra Other PS3/PS4/XBox 2x Adcom ACE-515 Line Conditioner

2.0 System Schiit Modi Multibit DAC>Schiit Freya Tube preamp w/KEN-RAD VT-231 tubes>2xBryston 7B ST>Mirage M-3si.
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Old 04-06-2017, 09:01 PM   #14
prerich prerich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1138 View Post
Pulled and ready for sale



How much?
Infinity Comp Prelude P-FR, Infinity Comp Overture 1 - center & front hght, 2 Infinity QPS-1 side, Infinty P-QPS rear hght, Infinity fps-1000 rear, Infinity Outrigger Jr. overheads, 2 AE AV15 Power Cube subwoofers, SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2 DCM Subs (rear), Denon AVR-X4300H (front hght and Prepro), Yamaha MX-830 (rear hght), B&K 200.7 Reference Amp, Behringer NU4-6000 (subs),miniDSP 2X4, BD HTPC, Tube DAC, NAS 20tb , Da-lite 16:9 106", Vivitek hk2288 4k proj, TCL Roku 4K TV.
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:40 AM   #15
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Quote:
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How much?
At the moment, I have the whole set listed at $1,000 on Craigslist. I have seen the ULD 15 set recently go for around $400 each, and the amp only for around $200. Having the matching set I hope is worth something by itself.

I may not get that much, but as long as I get $700 to cover the cost of the SVS', I'll be happy.

I am going to keep them at $1,000 for a few weeks on CL. I want to see if I get any action over this weekend at $1,000, but to anyone from this forum that might want them, local pickup only (western WA State), I'll do $800 after this weekend.
Home Theater Sony VPL-HW45ES w/Elite Screens Tab Tensioned 125" screen. or Vizio 70"
PrePro Emotiva UMC-200 Amps 2xBryston 7B ST Monoblocks (mains), Harman Kardon signature 2.1 (surrounds & center), Samson S1000 (Subs) Speakers Mirage M-3si, Mirage M-Csi, BIC V-52 (x4) Subs 2 x SVS CS-Ultra Other PS3/PS4/XBox 2x Adcom ACE-515 Line Conditioner

2.0 System Schiit Modi Multibit DAC>Schiit Freya Tube preamp w/KEN-RAD VT-231 tubes>2xBryston 7B ST>Mirage M-3si.

Last edited by brad1138; 04-07-2017 at 04:09 PM.
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