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Old 05-24-2017, 05:10 AM   #261
Twm1988 Twm1988 is offline
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
Looks like a pair of Emit 20s below a pair of Opticon 1s
Yup, and on some pretty sketchy improvised speaker stands!

Just demo models on home demo right now, they didn't have the M10's I wanted to take for demo. My dealer's willing to let me trade in the DALI's for the Dyn's if I like. Have them for 1 week, so well see what happens.
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Old 05-24-2017, 05:38 PM   #262
callas01 callas01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twm1988 View Post
Yup, and on some pretty sketchy improvised speaker stands!

Just demo models on home demo right now, they didn't have the M10's I wanted to take for demo. My dealer's willing to let me trade in the DALI's for the Dyn's if I like. Have them for 1 week, so well see what happens.
What do you think so far between the 2?
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Speakers: Dynaudio Focus 260s, Focus 210 C, DM 2/6
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Old 05-24-2017, 11:09 PM   #263
Twm1988 Twm1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
What do you think so far between the 2?
We'll, I'll give you a few strong/weak points of each;
THIS IS WITH ALL SPEAKERS CROSSED OVER AT 80Hz TO THE SAME SUB FOR ALL TESTING

DALI's: -Top end air/space/detail is unmatched by the Dyn's.
Imaging and definition/precision of edges of instruments and such
is better in the DALI's, not huge difference but definitely notable.
The crispness and clean edges of guitar or stringed instruments is
amazing on the DALI's, very much more like a "live" performance
to them.

-DALI's seem to do the depth and layering a little better than the
Dyn's. I get more of a sense of the spaciousness and blacker
background and deeper soundstage and layering with the DALI's.

-DALI's are also very quick and snappy through most of the
frequencies compared to Dyn's, and have a bit more energy for
electric guitar and similar things like that.

DYNAUDIO's: -Top end is a little more natural and not so "in your face" as
the DALI's. Some tracks with the DALI's will have a little
fatigue, not harsh or bright, but a little hard on the ears.
Dyn's are more comfortable and can listen to louder. You
don't quite get the same liquid and airy vocals that give you
goosebumps and sound live like you do with the DALI's.

-But there is something off with the DALI's midrange and
vocal presentation... the soundstage and vocals can sound
somewhat "canned" for lack of better word, and like they're
set too deep into the soundstage. They're still clearer and
more detailed than the Dyn's vocal's, but seem to sound a
touch unnatural and like the bottom portion of the vocals are
cut off or missing a little. Vocals on Dyn's are more realistic
and set further forward in the soundstage and do not have
the "canned" sound to them. They sound wide open, but not
as precise or defined.

-With orchestral music, the end credits music to the film
Master and Commander and the soundtrack to the movie
Inception I can hear the midrange strings more easily with
the Dyn's. They are neutral and have a proper weight and
fullness to the strings. The DALI's are a bit sweeter and sound
nice, but a bit thinner and the instruments are sometimes lost a
bit in the mix, almost smeared or blurred a bit and they don't have
the right body and punch to them. DALI's do much better with the
higher frequency strings with their top end clarity, but it's
also a little too sweet and exaggerated at times.

Basically the Dyn's remind me more of improved version's of my little RC Mini's, which is not a bad thing at all. The DALI's are more impressive in their top end clarity and "live" presentation, but the Dyn's present things more evenly and not having the "canned" presentation in the mids really brings through the certain vocal's and strings through so they're more present and easier to identify in the soundstage, but not as liquid sounding or precise.

Each has some really great things about them, the DALI's are more of a "wow" speaker with many impressive talents that the Dyn's just can't match, but they also call attention to the top end and something's off in the mids. The Dyn's are more "all-rounders" and don't call attention to themselves and present the midrange more like I want, I just crave a little more precision/definition and separation like the DALI's have.

It's a tough call... I need more time to test a few more CD's and a handful of movies before I can make a definite decision, I'm 50/50 on how much I like each of them right now.

Last edited by Twm1988; 05-24-2017 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 05-25-2017, 01:49 PM   #264
callas01 callas01 is offline
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As I've said before, Dali and Totem stuck out first to me when I auditioned all 3 brands, but the more and more I auditioned the 3 speakers, I felt that while the totems or Dalis did a few things a little better the Dyns, but totem and Dali did things not as good also; however the Dyns did everything correct and nothing wrong. The Dalis ribbon tweeter was slightly more detailed but I felt the Dalis felt a little fatiguing or bright at times, the Dyns didn't. The totems imaging was better but the Dyns imaging wasn't left behind. The Dalis & Totems bass was good the Dyns better. The Dyns mid range was the best to me. Then the natural quality to the sound, nothing added or taken away. Just a very real sense of here is the music from the Dyns.

Dynaudio suggest playing the speakers full range. With or without a sub, for music the Dyns have always sounded best full range.

I like my little Dalis in the bedroom, they're very good. Both brands are great, but I don't see my Focus 260s going anywhere anytime soon for any brand.
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Old 05-25-2017, 03:49 PM   #265
prerich prerich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twm1988 View Post
We'll, I'll give you a few strong/weak points of each;
THIS IS WITH ALL SPEAKERS CROSSED OVER AT 80Hz TO THE SAME SUB FOR ALL TESTING

DALI's: -Top end air/space/detail is unmatched by the Dyn's.
Imaging and definition/precision of edges of instruments and such
is better in the DALI's, not huge difference but definitely notable.
The crispness and clean edges of guitar or stringed instruments is
amazing on the DALI's, very much more like a "live" performance
to them.

-DALI's seem to do the depth and layering a little better than the
Dyn's. I get more of a sense of the spaciousness and blacker
background and deeper soundstage and layering with the DALI's.

-DALI's are also very quick and snappy through most of the
frequencies compared to Dyn's, and have a bit more energy for
electric guitar and similar things like that.

DYNAUDIO's: -Top end is a little more natural and not so "in your face" as
the DALI's. Some tracks with the DALI's will have a little
fatigue, not harsh or bright, but a little hard on the ears.
Dyn's are more comfortable and can listen to louder. You
don't quite get the same liquid and airy vocals that give you
goosebumps and sound live like you do with the DALI's.

-But there is something off with the DALI's midrange and
vocal presentation... the soundstage and vocals can sound
somewhat "canned" for lack of better word, and like they're
set too deep into the soundstage. They're still clearer and
more detailed than the Dyn's vocal's, but seem to sound a
touch unnatural and like the bottom portion of the vocals are
cut off or missing a little. Vocals on Dyn's are more realistic
and set further forward in the soundstage and do not have
the "canned" sound to them. They sound wide open, but not
as precise or defined.

-With orchestral music, the end credits music to the film
Master and Commander and the soundtrack to the movie
Inception I can hear the midrange strings more easily with
the Dyn's. They are neutral and have a proper weight and
fullness to the strings. The DALI's are a bit sweeter and sound
nice, but a bit thinner and the instruments are sometimes lost a
bit in the mix, almost smeared or blurred a bit and they don't have
the right body and punch to them. DALI's do much better with the
higher frequency strings with their top end clarity, but it's
also a little too sweet and exaggerated at times.

Basically the Dyn's remind me more of improved version's of my little RC Mini's, which is not a bad thing at all. The DALI's are more impressive in their top end clarity and "live" presentation, but the Dyn's present things more evenly and not having the "canned" presentation in the mids really brings through the certain vocal's and strings through so they're more present and easier to identify in the soundstage, but not as liquid sounding or precise.

Each has some really great things about them, the DALI's are more of a "wow" speaker with many impressive talents that the Dyn's just can't match, but they also call attention to the top end and something's off in the mids. The Dyn's are more "all-rounders" and don't call attention to themselves and present the midrange more like I want, I just crave a little more precision/definition and separation like the DALI's have.

It's a tough call... I need more time to test a few more CD's and a handful of movies before I can make a definite decision, I'm 50/50 on how much I like each of them right now.
Nice comparison!!!!!
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:35 PM   #266
Twm1988 Twm1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post
Nice comparison!!!!!
Thanks, I tried my best to articulate how each speaker has made me feel.

Callas, I think im in the same boat as you had been feeling about your auditions too.
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:57 PM   #267
Twm1988 Twm1988 is offline
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Sep 2014
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Also forgot to mention,... after I told most of this to my dealer he also gave me a pair of Audioquest Rocket 33's to try with the DALI's. Seems like he thought they would even out the top end a bit, but I don't think they can fix the strange issues I'm finding with the DALI's midrange.

Haven't tried them yet, but will make sure I do before I return them just to see if the cables have any effect.

Right now I would say I'm probably leaning 60/40 in favor of the Dyn's. Just seems hard to give up the things the DALI's do really well like the clarity and imaging and snap/quickness. I do think however, that the M10's might sound a little quicker and cleaner/clearer than the M20's just because of their smaller driver not putting out as much bass and moving as much air... they may be closer to the DALI's in these area's than the bigger M20's are.

I also can't be certain that the M20's are fully broken in wither. My DALI's have well over 200 hours into them, but the Dyn's I think are not quite there. My dealer has always got a pair of the M30 towers on demo, and he had M10 demo models a couple months ago but then sold them to a customer and brought in the M20's for demo models not all that long ago. I'll ask him when I return the M20's how many hours they have on them, but I'll be suspicious if he say's they're fully worked in. So the M20's may very well be closer to the DALI's in those area's after full break-in.

Last edited by Twm1988; 05-25-2017 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 05-25-2017, 11:47 PM   #268
BigAl87 BigAl87 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twm1988 View Post
Also forgot to mention,... after I told most of this to my dealer he also gave me a pair of Audioquest Rocket 33's to try with the DALI's. Seems like he thought they would even out the top end a bit, but I don't think they can fix the strange issues I'm finding with the DALI's midrange.

Haven't tried them yet, but will make sure I do before I return them just to see if the cables have any effect.

Right now I would say I'm probably leaning 60/40 in favor of the Dyn's. Just seems hard to give up the things the DALI's do really well like the clarity and imaging and snap/quickness. I do think however, that the M10's might sound a little quicker and cleaner/clearer than the M20's just because of their smaller driver not putting out as much bass and moving as much air... they may be closer to the DALI's in these area's than the bigger M20's are.

I also can't be certain that the M20's are fully broken in wither. My DALI's have well over 200 hours into them, but the Dyn's I think are not quite there. My dealer has always got a pair of the M30 towers on demo, and he had M10 demo models a couple months ago but then sold them to a customer and brought in the M20's for demo models not all that long ago. I'll ask him when I return the M20's how many hours they have on them, but I'll be suspicious if he say's they're fully worked in. So the M20's may very well be closer to the DALI's in those area's after full break-in.
I think that can be an explanation but from my understanding of your review it feels as the Emit has a better overall balance while nothing stands out but i am not actually that surprised, Energy use to make speakers that are linear also but it kind of like a better version of it and i am sure more details would come through the M20 knwing they may not be fully broken in.

Anyhow I know it's tough to second guess ourselves I'll give you he fact the Dali are fun as hell sort of like the Rainmakers which i really loved while I had them

FYI if you heard M20 with Bryston integrated you migh find them rather quick actually. I have done several test with different amps and that mioght affect how perceive speakers, I know the better the amp, the better the M20 will perform. Rainmakers on HK vs on Arcam a new speaker seriously.
Olivier
Panasonic TC-65CX800U 4K
Oppo BDP-203 4K, Bel Canto 3.5vb DAC
,Anthem MRX 520 Receiver, Naim 250DR /NAC272, Totem Fires Dusk L/R on Target MR20, Dynaudio C-30, Totem Tribe III Dusk on wall Center, Totem Mites Dusk Surrounds, JL Audio Fathom f113 Gloss Black. Naim NACA5, Nordost, Bis Audio, Audioquest
, Totem Forest Signature.
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Old 05-26-2017, 01:14 AM   #269
Twm1988 Twm1988 is offline
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Originally Posted by BigAl87 View Post
I think that can be an explanation but from my understanding of your review it feels as the Emit has a better overall balance while nothing stands out but i am not actually that surprised, Energy use to make speakers that are linear also but it kind of like a better version of it and i am sure more details would come through the M20 knwing they may not be fully broken in.

Anyhow I know it's tough to second guess ourselves I'll give you he fact the Dali are fun as hell sort of like the Rainmakers which i really loved while I had them

FYI if you heard M20 with Bryston integrated you migh find them rather quick actually. I have done several test with different amps and that mioght affect how perceive speakers, I know the better the amp, the better the M20 will perform. Rainmakers on HK vs on Arcam a new speaker seriously.
Yes I think the M20's would improve a bit more if I had time to break them in properly. And I also think that the M10's would sound a little quicker and cleaner as well just because of the smaller driver putting out let bass and being able to more a bit quicker than the larger one, so it's something to think about for sure.

Comparing the Energy's and Dyn's I find that the RC Mini's still offer up the more engaging and rich midrange with more punch, and they seem to still offer better midrange precision and definition of edges of things than the Dyn's, but the Dyn's can unclutter busy music and movie scenes and still make sense of them while the Energy's get a bit messy and compressed.

The High frequencies on the Dyn's are a little clearer and offer a little more space and distinction between each element in the mix than the Energy's, but the Energy's still have more attack and excitement in the high's. Gunshots and electric guitar have more of the proper bite to them on the RC Mini's, and the Dyn's seem to roll off a little sooner than the Energy's. I find myself thinking with some music and movie scenes that the Dyn's high's are cut off a little too soon and don't have quite enough presence to them.

Overall, I would say that yes the description that the Dyn's are like bigger better versions of the Energy's is quite accurate. Will still do more testing between the DALI's and Dyn's for the next few days and then just go back quickly between the Energy's and Dyn's to get a final sense if the Dyn's are enough of a step up from the Energy's for me. Still kinda wishing for more top end clarity and for better imaging and precision/definition from the M20's at this point.

Maybe I should be thinking about X14 instead of M10? It's tough to recall exactly how the Emits and Excites stacked up to each other from the last time I heard them directly side by side. I like the M20's midrange presentation, it seems a little bit more engaging rather than strictly neutral to me. I don't want to loose that presentation to a more laidback style by going with the X14's, but I think the imaging and precision and top end clarity the Excites have might make them a better choice...
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Old 05-26-2017, 04:39 AM   #270
BigAl87 BigAl87 is offline
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Yes I think the M20's would improve a bit more if I had time to break them in properly. And I also think that the M10's would sound a little quicker and cleaner as well just because of the smaller driver putting out let bass and being able to more a bit quicker than the larger one, so it's something to think about for sure.

Comparing the Energy's and Dyn's I find that the RC Mini's still offer up the more engaging and rich midrange with more punch, and they seem to still offer better midrange precision and definition of edges of things than the Dyn's, but the Dyn's can unclutter busy music and movie scenes and still make sense of them while the Energy's get a bit messy and compressed.

The High frequencies on the Dyn's are a little clearer and offer a little more space and distinction between each element in the mix than the Energy's, but the Energy's still have more attack and excitement in the high's. Gunshots and electric guitar have more of the proper bite to them on the RC Mini's, and the Dyn's seem to roll off a little sooner than the Energy's. I find myself thinking with some music and movie scenes that the Dyn's high's are cut off a little too soon and don't have quite enough presence to them.

Overall, I would say that yes the description that the Dyn's are like bigger better versions of the Energy's is quite accurate. Will still do more testing between the DALI's and Dyn's for the next few days and then just go back quickly between the Energy's and Dyn's to get a final sense if the Dyn's are enough of a step up from the Energy's for me. Still kinda wishing for more top end clarity and for better imaging and precision/definition from the M20's at this point.

Maybe I should be thinking about X14 instead of M10? It's tough to recall exactly how the Emits and Excites stacked up to each other from the last time I heard them directly side by side. I like the M20's midrange presentation, it seems a little bit more engaging rather than strictly neutral to me. I don't want to loose that presentation to a more laidback style by going with the X14's, but I think the imaging and precision and top end clarity the Excites have might make them a better choice...
i am a bit confused about the speed of the Emit 20 as honestly when I paired that speaker with Bryston integrated, it had a lot of pace and speed.
Olivier
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Old 05-26-2017, 06:08 AM   #271
Twm1988 Twm1988 is offline
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i am a bit confused about the speed of the Emit 20 as honestly when I paired that speaker with Bryston integrated, it had a lot of pace and speed.
Hmmm,... well I was a little confused as well when I first compared them to the Opticon at home here and found them a little sluggish. I did read somewhere that the M10's were able to work on even lower powered receiver's, but for some reason the M20's needed some good power to get them going right. The M20's are rated at 4 Ohms, while the 10's are 6 Ohms, but same 86dB sensitivity for both.

I don't remember the M10's sounding slow when I heard them at my dealers the last few times. We used an NAD T758 the first time, and then a $3,700 Musical Fidelity integrated for the next few times, and finally a $2,500 Naim integrated the last couple of sessions. So the M10's worked well on a wide range of amps... I guess I would chalk it up to the M20's not being fully worked in, or maybe the H/K receiver just isn't a great match being on the more lush and velvety side? I would think that the Anthem MRX receivers would pair very well with the Dyn's, and that's what I'm hoping to replace the H/K with in the next year. Do your X18's pair really well to the MRX520?

Anyway, I'm not too worried about the speed. I think a fully broken in pair of M10's would keep up just fine with the Energy's and even the DALI's too. I'm more concerned that the Emit's just might not have the level of imaging and precision and clarity that I want now after having lived with the DALI's for a few month's.

I think when I return the M20's I will get my dealer to give me a quote as to what I will be looking at $$$ wise to trade the Opticon's to a pair of M10's, and then also what he'll want $$$ wise for me to go for a pair of X14's.
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Old 05-26-2017, 12:50 PM   #272
BigAl87 BigAl87 is offline
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Hmmm,... well I was a little confused as well when I first compared them to the Opticon at home here and found them a little sluggish. I did read somewhere that the M10's were able to work on even lower powered receiver's, but for some reason the M20's needed some good power to get them going right. The M20's are rated at 4 Ohms, while the 10's are 6 Ohms, but same 86dB sensitivity for both.

I don't remember the M10's sounding slow when I heard them at my dealers the last few times. We used an NAD T758 the first time, and then a $3,700 Musical Fidelity integrated for the next few times, and finally a $2,500 Naim integrated the last couple of sessions. So the M10's worked well on a wide range of amps... I guess I would chalk it up to the M20's not being fully worked in, or maybe the H/K receiver just isn't a great match being on the more lush and velvety side? I would think that the Anthem MRX receivers would pair very well with the Dyn's, and that's what I'm hoping to replace the H/K with in the next year. Do your X18's pair really well to the MRX520?

Anyway, I'm not too worried about the speed. I think a fully broken in pair of M10's would keep up just fine with the Energy's and even the DALI's too. I'm more concerned that the Emit's just might not have the level of imaging and precision and clarity that I want now after having lived with the DALI's for a few month's.

I think when I return the M20's I will get my dealer to give me a quote as to what I will be looking at $$$ wise to trade the Opticon's to a pair of M10's, and then also what he'll want $$$ wise for me to go for a pair of X14's.
Yes MRX520 pairs really well with the X-18 and does not lack speed and the 4ohms rating may explain this with the HK receiver. Also for imaging When speaker is not fully broken in sometimes Dyn tend to lack in that department but once fully broken in it should be fine. Keep in mind also the Smaller M10 will have better imaging than the M20 for sure and One thing i know the X-14 and X-34 image better than my X-18.

If you want do the test at your dealer but turning an X-34 outward by like 75 degrees and the other speaker facing strait ahaead we were still getting stereophonic imaging with X-34.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:43 PM   #273
Twm1988 Twm1988 is offline
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Ok... I think I'm officially sold on the Dyns

Been going at it all day yesterday and today and I must say that after you spend some time with the Dyns and compare to the DALI's you really see which one has the proper presentation. And comparing the Dyn's and RC Mini's side by side, the Mini's have a little more bite and energy up top, but the spatial presentation is no match. Energys have only a little depth and layering. The Dyn's bring you right into the atmosphere of the recording.

I still have a few more days to play with them, but will go back in on Monday and trade the Opticon's in.

I'm still wanting a little more clarity and precision and definition from the Emits, but the overall presentation now is much better to me that the DALI's. Now I just have to decide whether to go for M10 or X14. Will go in and try to compare the M20's with X14 or X18 if he has either in.

I know I've asked you a half dozen times before Olivier, but could you just one more time give me your comparison between the M20 and X14's when you compared them side by side? What was the difference you noticed in the overall clarity and precision of the two? And did you find the Excites midrange as engaging as the Emits? I really like the mids on the Emits, very much like my Energy's and I don't want to loose that midrange presentation if the Excites midrange is more laidback.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:59 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Twm1988 View Post
Ok... I think I'm officially sold on the Dyns

Been going at it all day yesterday and today and I must say that after you spend some time with the Dyns and compare to the DALI's you really see which one has the proper presentation. And comparing the Dyn's and RC Mini's side by side, the Mini's have a little more bite and energy up top, but the spatial presentation is no match. Energys have only a little depth and layering. The Dyn's bring you right into the atmosphere of the recording.

I still have a few more days to play with them, but will go back in on Monday and trade the Opticon's in.

I'm still wanting a little more clarity and precision and definition from the Emits, but the overall presentation now is much better to me that the DALI's. Now I just have to decide whether to go for M10 or X14. Will go in and try to compare the M20's with X14 or X18 if he has either in.

I know I've asked you a half dozen times before Olivier, but could you just one more time give me your comparison between the M20 and X14's when you compared them side by side? What was the difference you noticed in the overall clarity and precision of the two? And did you find the Excites midrange as engaging as the Emits? I really like the mids on the Emits, very much like my Energy's and I don't want to loose that midrange presentation if the Excites midrange is more laidback.
Mids are as sweet sounding on Xcite as they are on Emit, all in all Excite have great tonal balance and if anything a more musical better flowing presentation (less Mechanical for lack of better words) Not to says the Emits are Mechanical but you get the picture. Now price difference between emit and X-cite is quite steep so you be the judge of that can you at least compare in store?

I know a guy who works at Dynaudio has said everyone hearing direct A-B comparison between X-cites and Emit will say X-cite is the better speaker.

Even without knowing which speaker is the most expensive I am sure you would be able to tell which one if the Excite and Emit if you heard the comparison in a blind test.

Just my 2 cents.

It is very difficult for me to describe a speaker as sometimes things can be left to interpretation.
Olivier
Panasonic TC-65CX800U 4K
Oppo BDP-203 4K, Bel Canto 3.5vb DAC
,Anthem MRX 520 Receiver, Naim 250DR /NAC272, Totem Fires Dusk L/R on Target MR20, Dynaudio C-30, Totem Tribe III Dusk on wall Center, Totem Mites Dusk Surrounds, JL Audio Fathom f113 Gloss Black. Naim NACA5, Nordost, Bis Audio, Audioquest
, Totem Forest Signature.
Wadia 151 Power DAC Mini, Dynaudio X-18.

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Old 05-26-2017, 10:37 PM   #275
Twm1988 Twm1988 is offline
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Sep 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl87 View Post
Mids are as sweet sounding on Xcite as they are on Emit, all in all Excite have great tonal balance and if anything a more musical better flowing presentation (less Mechanical for lack of better words) Not to says the Emits are Mechanical but you get the picture. Now price difference between emit and X-cite is quite steep so you be the judge of that can you at least compare in store?

I know a guy who works at Dynaudio has said everyone hearing direct A-B comparison between X-cites and Emit will say X-cite is the better speaker.

Even without knowing which speaker is the most expensive I am sure you would be able to tell which one if the Excite and Emit if you heard the comparison in a blind test.

Just my 2 cents.

It is very difficult for me to describe a speaker as sometimes things can be left to interpretation.

Will reply to you in the Dyn thread from now on Olivier, so as not to disrespect DALI's.
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