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Old 08-14-2017, 12:15 PM   #81
devineki devineki is offline
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With an UHD Blu-Ray Drive in PS4 Pro, Sony could have waited 2019, but without Sony don't have the choice, it will be holiday 2018 for PS5. In any case Sony can not afford an incompatibility with ps4 games catalog.
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Old 08-14-2017, 12:32 PM   #82
Steedeel Steedeel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_rigby View Post
We both may be correct. Guess: Next PS4 is a step upgrade from PS4 Pro with UHD Media capable I went back to the SRI drafts and finally realized the power caps for 2019 define two separate UHD consoles and neither can be the PS4 Pro.



PS4 Pro does not have the DRM protections for UHD Media. If this is what is understood by Sony then the Pro is not a true UHD Media console, there is a UHD Media PS4 that does have UHD Blu-ray coming and since it does not need as powerful a GPU for 4K gaming it can come sooner. Tier 4 now has a UHD Media capable Power Cap of 60 watts and a UHD Gaming console with a power cap of 70 watts for HD media and 110 watts for 4K media. This confirms there are two separate definitions and the Tier 3 power caps for the PS4 Pro are higher than 60 watts in Media mode, that eliminates the Pro as one of the two consoles being released 2018-2019.

Holiday 2018 something greater than PS4 Pro with UHD media DRM
Holiday 2028 or sometime 2019 UHD Gaming capable with UHD Media DRM

This makes sense of the several conflicting rumors.
4K Bluray playback is ideal for me. I plan to move into a new apartment in 2019 so I have delayed a 4K tv purchase until then.

By the way, holiday 2028? . We will have holograms by then!
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:54 PM   #83
Gargus Gargus is offline
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Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
They already set a bad precedent by not including a 4K player in their 4K console. I won't put anything past them now.

How so? At the time 4kuhd was not very big when pro came out, it is still nothing in comparison to normal blu rays released. So they chose not to include one in order to keep the cost down. In fact by not including the 4k player they released the pro at the same price as a ps4 was at the time and lowered non pro ps4, so they didn't even have to raise the price.

Having a 4k player in it was not mandatory for any reason at all. 4k players prices were pretty high when pro came out and that's just for the player alone, they still aren't cheap yet. If they included one and charged you 150 bucks more you'd be pissed about a expensive ps4.

Or did you forget yes a ps4 can play movies and such but it is still a GAMING CONSOLE.
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:08 AM   #84
Airaizor Airaizor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devineki View Post
With an UHD Blu-Ray Drive in PS4 Pro, Sony could have waited 2019, but without Sony don't have the choice, it will be holiday 2018 for PS5. In any case Sony can not afford an incompatibility with ps4 games catalog.
Kinda annoyed with Sony for skimping out on this. I wonder if it was pressure from the other departments within the co. or if the sole reason was truly undercutting the Pro's manufacturing price.
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:18 AM   #85
Airaizor Airaizor is offline
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I wonder if they will go with a two-console ecosystem right from the start of next gen. PS5 and PS5 EX (or Pro, whatever), with the latter pushing 160% computational/250% graphical advantage. Pro was cited to extend the lifespan of this gen, but I also wonder if this was also done to help ease the consciousness of the PS4 playerbase into a 2-console ecosystem now.

We saw from the thrashing, the Xbox brand got years ago, that gamers are sensitive to new changes as a new gen starts. Heck when the PS4 "NEO" rumours dropped last year, there were gamers who did not like it. But Sony busted Pro out while PS4 is popular so any damage was greatly dampened.

It will be advantageous to do this, because they effectively eliminate console gaming's Achille's Heel, and that is 30fps. A lot of hardcore gamers prefer PC gaming cuz they want higher framerates and Sony can't control the Hz specs a dev decides on. But they can offer two SKUs to develop for, like what Nintendo is doing with their Switch in docked and undocked mode.
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Old 08-15-2017, 02:34 PM   #86
rodneyfaile rodneyfaile is offline
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I've always used my Playstation 3 and 4 as my main blu ray player. I wish they had made the PS4 capable of playing UHD movies. If the PS5 doesn't support UHD, HDR and Dolby Vision, I will probably not purchase it. Movies come first for me, the games are what I consider an extra perk.
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Old 08-18-2017, 01:51 PM   #87
jeff_rigby jeff_rigby is offline
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Originally Posted by rodneyfaile View Post
I've always used my Playstation 3 and 4 as my main blu ray player. I wish they had made the PS4 capable of playing UHD movies. If the PS5 doesn't support UHD, HDR and Dolby Vision, I will probably not purchase it. Movies come first for me, the games are what I consider an extra perk.
We do know that there are two new Game console power caps for holiday 2018 but we do not know if they will be iterations of the PS4 and still called PS4.

Better to call them Holiday 2018 UHD consoles; UHD Media and UHD Gaming capable.

The SRI also says that consoles after 2019 will not have higher resolutions than UHD so some other way to define them is needed, no higher resolutions are coming just performance and power improvements.

Best guess is they are all UHD consoles and called PS4 similar to the PS4 Pro naming convention. Sony calls all PS4s UHD Capable and that may continue in the future.
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Old Yesterday, 04:31 PM   #88
jeff_rigby jeff_rigby is offline
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Reference post 42

The Micron Game Console chart lower right has GDDR6 in game consoles considerably before 2020. The chart deliberately does not have any dates between 2015 and 2020 but if you chart it yourself it's almost a lock for Holiday 2018 which is what Efficientgaming.eu Tier 4 power caps for UHD media Jan 1, 2019 imply.

Then you have a recent Samsung post on GDDR6 mentioning game consoles:

Quote:
8K Resolution Using Less Power
Effortlessly processing complicated data with greater speed, such as 3D graphics or 8K-resolution video, the Samsung GDDR6 still offers outstanding efficiency, using less power than GDDR5.

Ultra-Fast, Up to 768 GB/s at 384 I/O

With data rates nearly twice as fast as the previous generation, the Samsung GDDR6 offers trailblazing speed for high-resolution video and graphics-intensive 3D games and applications.
From 2012, Sony CTO plans (8K @ 300FPS) for the PS4 have to wait 5 years (2013+5=2018)
3D graphics or 8K resolution Video = 4K per eye @ 120 FPS VR or Glassless 4K 3D on 8K TV.


Quote:
Originally Posted by https://hothardware.com/news/amd-semi-custom-silicon-may-power-atari-ataribox
So, when Su was asked by Barron’s if there was another new semi-custom chip in the pipeline, she gave a rather curious answer.

She said that there is “one additional design that will ramp in the second half of 2018.” Su went on to mention that AMD would be mum on the subject until its partner is ready to discuss the project further. We have to also consider that Su mentioned this new prospect while at the same time describing an overall softness in the console market.

In our semi-custom business, unit shipments were up sequentially and down year-over-year as we enter the fifth year of the current game console sales cycle,” said Su. “As we look at the remainder of the year and given the maturity of the current game console cycle, we expect semi-custom revenue to be down for the full year.”
Efficientgaming.eu has two Tier 4 power caps for two new 2019 consoles (page 11) but only one semi-custom mentioned from AMD. I ran across this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by https://www.tweaktown.com/news/57845/playstation-5-feature-full-discrete-gpu-apu/index.html
After I had found out what this person did, I had a few questions to ask about the PS5 and what it will arrive as - especially when we look at Microsoft's upcoming Project Scorpio console. The first question I had was "will it feature a discrete GPU" to which I received a smile and a "I can't say exactly", and then I said would it feature an APU like Project Scorpio, and then there was a "no".
That would not be a semi-custom APU so if the above is true then the AMD Semi custom is likely a "Media Console" with maybe PS4 Pro performance able to sell at a very low price. A softness in the Game Console market should signal a much price reduced PS4 or a PS5. Xbox Two and PS5 expected in 2018, powered by AMD with 4K support

And that equals two consoles for 2019 and accounts for only one AMD semi-custom 2018 design win.

1) Cheap less powerful PS4 UHD Media Console (50 watts Navigation) (60 watts HD and UHD Media) If Pro performance then 8 GB GDDR6 used.
2) Expensive PS5 UHD Gaming Console with dGPU (70 watts navigation) (70 watts HD media and 110 watts UHD Media) Likely Ryzen CPU and Vega dGPU with infinity fabric connecting CPU and GPU for a slightly less efficient than APU console. GDDR6 used

Page 11 of the Gaming SRI has two tier 4 (2019) powercaps.

EU SRI power caps are generally lower each year. The SRI rules are as follows:
1) A stakeholder (Sony) informs the EU of a new console(s) and it's Tier/power use/cap.
2) During the year it applies, 80% of the console sales have to meet that power cap.
3) Sony has to test and confirm this by June of that year (2019). Independent testing to confirm is also done.
4) This time, 2019, has two Console definitions with different power caps. Each have to comply with the power cap rules in their category. 80% of the UHD Media consoles sold in 2019 have to comply with the Power caps for the UHD Media console and 80% of the UHD Gaming Consoles sold in 2019 have to comply with the power caps for the UHD Gaming Console.

Note: The 2019 UHD Gaming console power caps are only a very small amount larger than the measured power used by the 2017 PS4 Pro while the UHD Media console is significantly smaller.

Last edited by jeff_rigby; Yesterday at 04:41 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 04:51 PM   #89
Steedeel Steedeel is offline
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No way will there be a PS5 in 2018.
If you don't believe in VR, you haven't tried it!
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Old Yesterday, 06:55 PM   #90
dmaul1114 dmaul1114 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steedeel View Post
No way will there be a PS5 in 2018.
Yeah I can't see it before 2020 myself.

Sony and MS lose money on consoles at the start, they're not going to be in a hurry to move on as long as they're still selling well and software, PS+/Xbox Live subs etc. still selling a high levels.

The second half of generations is when they make the most profits. So I see this stretching 7ish years just like last gen. Even more so since Sony and MS did mid-gen refreshes with the Pro and X and Nintendo just put out the Switch last year.
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Old Yesterday, 10:15 PM   #91
Steedeel Steedeel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaul1114 View Post
Yeah I can't see it before 2020 myself.

Sony and MS lose money on consoles at the start, they're not going to be in a hurry to move on as long as they're still selling well and software, PS+/Xbox Live subs etc. still selling a high levels.

The second half of generations is when they make the most profits. So I see this stretching 7ish years just like last gen. Even more so since Sony and MS did mid-gen refreshes with the Pro and X and Nintendo just put out the Switch last year.
Agreed. 2020 for me too.
If you don't believe in VR, you haven't tried it!
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