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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Movies > Blu-ray Movies - International > France


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Old 08-22-2017, 08:26 AM   #1
James Luckard James Luckard is online now
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Default Butterfly Kiss - 9/5/17



https://www.amazon.fr/Butterfly-Kiss.../dp/B072RC11CT

Michael Winterbottom is one of my favorite directors, and this is the first BD release anywhere of his first feature. It's a fascinating Thelma & Louise-esque tale of two women falling in love as they commit a cross-country murder spree on the highways of the UK. I really love the film.

I'm eager to pick it up, but it's EUR 24,99 and I've encountered far too many French BDs that are 1080i, sourced from PAL sped-up masters. I can't watch PAL speedup. I watch PAL DVDs at 96% speed on my computer, but there's nothing I can do for BDs.

Does anyone know about this company, Outplay? Do they have a reputation for releasing quality products?
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:35 PM   #2
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I didn't think that Butterfly Kiss would make it to Blu-ray and was pleasantly surprised that it finally got a release. Even though I had no previous experience with Outplay I blind bought it not even knowing if there were forced subs. And taking the risk payed off big time! I just watched it and image and sound are excellent, French subtitles are optional. I can now happily retire my region 1 DVD which, besides the constraints of the format, is cropped to 1.33:1.
I can highly recommend this release to everyone interested in the film.
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The whole principle of censorship is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak (Robert Heinlein).

Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from (Jodie Foster).

Plus tu baises, moins tu cogites et mieux tu dors (Virginie Despentes).
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:44 PM   #3
Konrad Konrad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Luckard View Post
I'm eager to pick it up, but it's EUR 24,99 and I've encountered far too many French BDs that are 1080i, sourced from PAL sped-up masters. I can't watch PAL speedup. I watch PAL DVDs at 96% speed on my computer, but there's nothing I can do for BDs.

Does anyone know about this company, Outplay? Do they have a reputation for releasing quality products?
The Outplay Blu-ray release is 1080p/24, the included DVD is PAL. Therefore Blu-ray runnig time is 88 min, DVD is 84 min. Hope this helps.
My BD/DVD Collection

The whole principle of censorship is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak (Robert Heinlein).

Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from (Jodie Foster).

Plus tu baises, moins tu cogites et mieux tu dors (Virginie Despentes).

Last edited by Konrad; 09-26-2017 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 09-27-2017, 01:09 AM   #4
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Thanks so much!!!!

Full running time, no PAL-speedup and removable subtitles? Ordered!!
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:11 AM   #5
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DVD Classik reviewed it and it however seems to use a dated HD master.
http://www.dvdclassik.com/test/blu-r...ee-dvd-blu-ray
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:06 PM   #6
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Thank you for the link!
I have to honestly say that I found Outland’s presentation of this 22 year old indie film excellent. I was thrilled that it did get a release on Blu which I thought unlikely to happen. Watching it I was actually smitten how good it looked, though I admit I do not possess a pair of the kind of golden eyes a seasoned reviewer obviously does. I watched it on a 92” screen with an isf calibrated THX-certified projector and I was probably too immersed in the film to notice the shortcomings M. Beauchet mentions in his review.

Anyway so long as studios like Arrow in the UK (it is a British film after all) or Criterion in the US do not commission an 8k scan and subsequent 4k restoration it is safe to say that Outland’s release is the best one available today. It seems to me that some reviewers are mor papal than the pope and excel in finding fault instead of appreciating that a rare film gets a high quality release. Just my 5 cents.
My BD/DVD Collection

The whole principle of censorship is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak (Robert Heinlein).

Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from (Jodie Foster).

Plus tu baises, moins tu cogites et mieux tu dors (Virginie Despentes).
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:27 PM   #7
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Yep, agreed, I never expected Criterion-level treatment of such an obscure film.

I was afraid it would be the standard French "reuse an old PAL HD master" BD, so I'm just grateful it's at the right speed, I don't mind if it's an older HD master, I was totally expecting that.
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Old 09-29-2017, 02:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad View Post
Anyway so long as studios like Arrow in the UK (it is a British film after all) or Criterion in the US do not commission an 8k scan and subsequent 4k restoration it is safe to say that Outland’s release is the best one available today. It seems to me that some reviewers are mor papal than the pope and excel in finding fault instead of appreciating that a rare film gets a high quality release.
A 2K restoration at least would probably be already better than re-using a decade old made-for-DVD HD master, though, no ?
On the other hand, never forget that a technical review is what it is... : a technical review. If it's from a dated master, it should say it, no matter how good the movie is, because appreciating a rare movie isn’t the goal of these reviews.

Sure, it's nice to have the movie on BD at all, but one could argue that the BD-format should not be limited to "good enough" masters. I mean, otherwise, I'd just stick with the DVD, you know ?

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high quality release.
It looks like an OK-ish upgrade but I strongly doubt that re-using an outdated source with a very likely unfaithful color timing allows for a high quality release. I’d also tend to argue that accepting these (and even more so by calling them “high quality”) is what allowed the BD market to never clean up their inventories and for all these outdated HD masters to still be around.

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Originally Posted by James Luckard View Post
Yep, agreed, I never expected Criterion-level treatment of such an obscure film.
Not a Criterion-level one but it would have fit right in the BFI Flipside line-up, and they would certainly have restored the movie rather than re-using this dated source.
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Old 09-29-2017, 08:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenia View Post
A 2K restoration at least would probably be already better than re-using a decade old made-for-DVD HD master, though, no ?
Hmm... But this is coming from France, where they use PAL, yet the BD has been confirmed to run at normal speed, so the master clearly wasn't created for DVD or home video release on any PAL format...

There are loads of BDs released in France with repurposed PAL-sped-up HD masters, indeed I was afraid that's what this would be until the proper running time was confirmed.

Last edited by James Luckard; 09-30-2017 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 10-01-2017, 07:52 AM   #10
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Masters can be converted from 24fps to 25 fps, and the other way is true.
Simple exemples : all the studio movies that were released on DVD in the US at 24fps and in Europe in 25fps despite being sourced from the same master.
We still have many cases of BDs in France incorrectly encoded in 1080i50 despite the possibility to convert it to 1080p24 but it's a way to save money for the label which then doesnt have to handle 2 intermediate masters at 2 different speeds. TF1 used to do that a lot.

So the encode speed isnt an accurate way to tell at all.

Last edited by tenia; 10-01-2017 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 10-02-2017, 08:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenia View Post

Sure, it's nice to have the movie on BD at all, but one could argue that the BD-format should not be limited to "good enough" masters. I mean, otherwise, I'd just stick with the DVD, you know ?


It looks like an OK-ish upgrade but I strongly doubt that re-using an outdated source with a very likely unfaithful color timing allows for a high quality release. I’d also tend to argue that accepting these (and even more so by calling them “high quality”) is what allowed the BD market to never clean up their inventories and for all these outdated HD masters to still be around.
I own the DVD. The BD is way better and respects the widescreen aspect ratio. BTW I’ve seen the movie in the cinema upon its release in 1995 and even though I do not claim that I still remember how it looked like on the big screen back then the BD seemed pretty faithful to me, but yes the color grading and the organic grain resolution and bla and bla and blablabla. But that’s just me, my requirements are not so high. I am happy if I have an enjoyable movie experience and the technical quality is not so bad that it actually distracts from viewing. Having said that, I am of course willing to doube-dip, or rather triple-dip since I have it on DVD and BD, if a better version should be released that also satisfies the most critical of the reviewers.
My BD/DVD Collection

The whole principle of censorship is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak (Robert Heinlein).

Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from (Jodie Foster).

Plus tu baises, moins tu cogites et mieux tu dors (Virginie Despentes).
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Old 10-02-2017, 10:41 PM   #12
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This is such an exceptionally obscure film, I'm stunned and grateful we got a BD at all. My copy is on its way from France, eager to check it out. I think this film is an underappreciated gem.
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Old 10-17-2017, 06:21 AM   #13
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My disc arrived today. I didn't have time to watch the whole film, but I skipped around a bit and it looks decent. Clearly an older HD transfer, but miles better than any of the DVDs out there - US or UK.

Be warned, if you have a US system only, I can't honestly tell if the disc is region-locked, but it doesn't matter, because the disc has multiple PAL logos at the beginning that can't be skipped, and which US players can't decipher. My US player froze on them and couldn't play the disc. There's no way to make it to the menu, and there's no way to do the STOP, TOP MENU, TOP MENU trick. You'll only be able to watch this disc on a device that can handle PAL, like a multi-region player.
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