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Old 09-06-2017, 06:46 AM   #161
antennahead antennahead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HedgeHog View Post
Thx...I've been pulling the plug for extended period. Sometimes it will power back on but most times it just goes back to the blinking cycle. I'm just waiting for the OLED price adjustment in Canada since US consumers had a USD$5K price drop but we're just releasing the TV so still at the old outrage price of CAD$29999!

May try to order the rectifier (repair kit) and do some de-soldering/re-soldering. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PIONEER-Repai...%257Ciid%253A1

-H
Best of luck, I hope that fix repairs your Kuro!
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Old 09-25-2017, 04:15 PM   #162
dobyblue dobyblue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HedgeHog View Post
Thx...I've been pulling the plug for extended period. Sometimes it will power back on but most times it just goes back to the blinking cycle. I'm just waiting for the OLED price adjustment in Canada since US consumers had a USD$5K price drop but we're just releasing the TV so still at the old outrage price of CAD$29999!

May try to order the rectifier (repair kit) and do some de-soldering/re-soldering. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PIONEER-Repai...%257Ciid%253A1

-H
Gibby's will ship anywhere in Canada, they've got pretty competitive pricing on OLEDs at the moment.

65" B7P from LG is $4,000 + tax shipped.

https://gibbyselectronicsupermarket....-hdr-smart-tv/
The first thing I try to communicate to my crew is that there will be no shaky-cam and no rack zooms, because those techniques are only used to hide the fact that there is no energy. When you eliminate those gimmicks you’re confronted with the reality of the shot you have in front of you, and nine times out of 10 you say to yourself: “This just isn’t working.”
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:09 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
Gibby's will ship anywhere in Canada, they've got pretty competitive pricing on OLEDs at the moment.

65" B7P from LG is $4,000 + tax shipped.

https://gibbyselectronicsupermarket....-hdr-smart-tv/

Thx...I know. I got my Kuro from Gibby's.

Still waiting for LG Canada to match price adjustment that LG US had. Theirs is a sizable price drop.
TV: Pioneer Kuro Elite PRO-151FD / BD: MW Oppo BDP-105 / PVR: Arris Gateway
Pre/Pro: Classe Audio SSP-800 / Amps: Classe Audio CA-M400 (x2) + CA-5200
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Rack: SolidTech Rack of Silence Reference 3 and Reference 4 / Power Conditioning: RGPC Substation 240v + 1200Custom
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:21 PM   #164
fathergll fathergll is offline
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Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
The Pioneer plasmas at 72Hz have better motion quality when compared to a OLED. However OLED has absolute black with more resolution.

If all the content was 1080P keeping the plasma would be a no-brainer despite the advantages that OLED has with black levels). The x-factor now is UHD bluray which is technically superior to bluray and being on a Kuro or any plasma means you are stuck with outdated tech that can't provide the same IQ.
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Old 11-15-2017, 02:12 PM   #165
AnalogAperture AnalogAperture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fathergll View Post
If all the content was 1080P keeping the plasma would be a no-brainer despite the advantages that OLED has with black levels). The x-factor now is UHD bluray which is technically superior to bluray and being on a Kuro or any plasma means you are stuck with outdated tech that can't provide the same IQ.
As true as that is, if you have a 4K player and watch something on a plasma, you can still benefit from the quality diff even if it's not UHD 4K. I do that now and I must say it def looks wayyy nicer than my regular blu's and I get the benefit of atmos!
60" Samsung 3D Plasma PN60E550D1F (ISF Calibrated)
7.1 Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH - Roku 3 (4200)
Samsung UBD-K8500 - Oppo DV-970HD
Onkyo DX-C220 - JVC HRA591U VHS

Center: Advent Mini; Front: Advent Legacy III; Surrounds: Advent Legacy II; Surround Back: Advent Prodigy Tower; Subwoofer: Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX
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Old 11-16-2017, 08:03 PM   #166
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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For those that want to purchase a new display. The best choices are a high-end true 4096 x 2160P 3 chip DLP projector that also offers native 3-D, then second choice would be a 4096 x 2160P Sony SXRD projector, and my last choice would be a 3840 x 2160P OLED flat panel with absolute black. OLED flat panels would make a good bedroom TV.


When It comes to 4K Ultra HD, one needs to sit a few feet from the screen to see the increased resolution, one can sIt farther away if they have a super huge size screen. A 120+ inch projector is ideal for 4K Ultra HD and people can see big differences in resolution when the screen is that big.


The reason why native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs look around 5% better when played back on an old classic 1080P Pioneer plasma is because the HEVC bit rate is higher and looks better then MPEG-4/AVC, plus the HDR10 to SDR conversion from a 3840 x 2160P 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray source looks very good. I like watching 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs on a 1080P plasma. However a high-end DLP projector has better motion then plasma and one day when the time is right I am looking at going the projector route and away from flat panels. Come to think about it 100% of all movies watched in the commercial movie theaters come from some type of projector system (either a DLP, DLP laser, or SXRD projector normally). For those that have a dedicated dark home theater room that is the best way to watch movies at home. OLED is for those consumers that cannot have a projector because of issues with the home theater room not allowing for a projector without a major remodeling of the home.

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 11-16-2017 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 11-20-2017, 04:13 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
For those that want to purchase a new display. The best choices are a high-end true 4096 x 2160P 3 chip DLP projector that also offers native 3-D, then second choice would be a 4096 x 2160P Sony SXRD projector, and my last choice would be a 3840 x 2160P OLED flat panel with absolute black. OLED flat panels would make a good bedroom TV.


When It comes to 4K Ultra HD, one needs to sit a few feet from the screen to see the increased resolution, one can sIt farther away if they have a super huge size screen. A 120+ inch projector is ideal for 4K Ultra HD and people can see big differences in resolution when the screen is that big.


The reason why native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs look around 5% better when played back on an old classic 1080P Pioneer plasma is because the HEVC bit rate is higher and looks better then MPEG-4/AVC, plus the HDR10 to SDR conversion from a 3840 x 2160P 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray source looks very good. I like watching 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs on a 1080P plasma. However a high-end DLP projector has better motion then plasma and one day when the time is right I am looking at going the projector route and away from flat panels. Come to think about it 100% of all movies watched in the commercial movie theaters come from some type of projector system (either a DLP, DLP laser, or SXRD projector normally). For those that have a dedicated dark home theater room that is the best way to watch movies at home. OLED is for those consumers that cannot have a projector because of issues with the home theater room not allowing for a projector without a major remodeling of the home.

Some people have TV's in dark dedicated rooms when they should have a projector. Wish I had a dark dedicated room. I would have Dolby Atmos and a large front projection screen.
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Old 11-20-2017, 08:35 AM   #168
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Had a recent repair to my Kuro Elite 151's Input Board and my 9 Year Old Plasma is back in shape & picture is still Fantastic. My Tech Repairman told that it is still the Best & Most Reliable TV ever made in his 30 plus years in the business. He is still able to get Pioneer parts for these TV's & gets Personal Service from Pioneer's Top Engineer. It's unfortunate that Pioneer is out of the TV Business now. The repair shop had 8 OLED TV's in the shop that all have the Burn In issue, which is sad because the picture on these 4K sets are Fantastic when working proper. Unfortunately, the Repairman told me that most of these OLED's that he is getting in are all less than 2 years old. I certainly hope that the OLED technology improves in the next few years when I might be in the market to replace my Kuro. But for now, I hope my Kuro will last at least another 5 years.
I have attached a couple of photos of my Kuro.
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File Type: jpg 20171119_172757_resized.jpg (74.0 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg 20171119_171243_resized.jpg (68.3 KB, 30 views)
Downstairs FR Home Theater - Pioneer 151FD Elite Plasma, Denon AVR 4308CI, Axiom M60 Fronts, (4) Axiom QS8's Sides & Rear Surrounds, Axiom VP160 Center, PSA V1500 (2) Subs, Oppo BDP-103D Blu Ray, Samsung BD-UP5000 Blu/HD DVD, TiVo Roamio Pro & Tivo Premier XL4 DVRs

Upstairs LR Music/Home Theater - Toshiba 32" LCD, Denon AVR 4802R, Aperion Verus Grand Towers, Aperion Verus Grand Center, Pioneer Surrounds (2), Oppo BDP-83, Toshiba SD-4960 DVD Audio/SACD, Technics SL-D30 TT
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:08 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fathergll View Post
If all the content was 1080P keeping the plasma would be a no-brainer despite the advantages that OLED has with black levels). The x-factor now is UHD bluray which is technically superior to bluray and being on a Kuro or any plasma means you are stuck with outdated tech that can't provide the same IQ.
Blurays are still made. There's also the smaller studios that only release blurays.


If the Kuro was your average plasma changing to a new TV would be easy. Watched Passengers last week and it's amazing how the picture on this TV can still surprise with how good it looks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogAperture View Post
As true as that is, if you have a 4K player and watch something on a plasma, you can still benefit from the quality diff even if it's not UHD 4K. I do that now and I must say it def looks wayyy nicer than my regular blu's and I get the benefit of atmos!
Isn't the SDR conversion all over the place? I read you have to calibrate for each movie.

I wouldn't buy UHD's cause of Atmos. There's no reason why blurays can't have it other than studios wanting to try forcing people to buy the UHD.
Pioneer Kuro 151FD|Samung 40"
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Old 11-21-2017, 03:36 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by AnalogAperture View Post
As true as that is, if you have a 4K player and watch something on a plasma, you can still benefit from the quality diff even if it's not UHD 4K. I do that now and I must say it def looks wayyy nicer than my regular blu's and I get the benefit of atmos!

Is this true? I read multiple people who did A and B comparisons and said they couldn't spot the difference on a plasma or it was so small it was negligible.

Last edited by fathergll; 11-21-2017 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 11-21-2017, 05:10 PM   #171
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yes (true)

i personally acquired several UltraHD displays several years ago without HDR support, specifically for the improvement in picture quality for SD/HD content (television - DVD - HD), enjoying the improvements without regrets

'it's the primary reason for acquiring an UltraHD display, all content displayed is improved' :: how anyone could not see/realize this, is beyond me (my eyes & appreciation)

only this year did we finally watch UltraHD content on these displays with affordable players offered :: (we have now acquired 2017 displays to take full advantage of further picture format improvements (Dolby Vision))

'it's an whole new viewing experience'


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Is this true? I read multiple people who did A and B comparisons and said they couldn't spot the difference on a plasma or it was so small it was negligible.
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Old 11-21-2017, 05:14 PM   #172
jibucha jibucha is offline
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yes (still) :: my apology (previous post) :: i did not read 'carefully', or possibly at all

a 4K UltraHD player, used with a HD display, will certainly be a benefit (perceivable improvement in picture quality) :: in my viewing experiences, quite obvious and predictable


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Is this true? I read multiple people who did A and B comparisons and said they couldn't spot the difference on a plasma or it was so small it was negligible.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:11 PM   #173
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Thanks for the above posts about the benefits of UHD on Plasmas.


Next question - could someone give me some models of UHD players where this is confirmed working or does any model work? Are there any special requirements...etc?
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:35 PM   #174
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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The OPPO UDP-203 for $549 is the best 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player on the market (UDP-205 has better analog audio outputs but is overkill for most consumers that only use HDMI). Sony’s UBP-X800 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player is the only other low cost 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player that plays SACD and DVD-Audio discs and it can sometimes be found for around $149.99.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:45 PM   #175
AnalogAperture AnalogAperture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post
Blurays are still made. There's also the smaller studios that only release blurays.


If the Kuro was your average plasma changing to a new TV would be easy. Watched Passengers last week and it's amazing how the picture on this TV can still surprise with how good it looks.



Isn't the SDR conversion all over the place? I read you have to calibrate for each movie.

I wouldn't buy UHD's cause of Atmos. There's no reason why blurays can't have it other than studios wanting to try forcing people to buy the UHD.

Honestly It's not as all over the place as I thought it would be, at least when playing a 4K on my Plasma looks damn good and don't even have to calibrate for each movie, honest!


and I normally do agree with not needing to buy UHD because of Atmos, but I really..REALLLLY wanted to hear Blade Runner in 7.1 and as such had to get the 4K version as it was the only pressing that was Atmos/7.1. I didn't initially take the dip because of video, but after having viewed the 4K version of the film, the detail even on my 1080p tv is amazing! You can see even more detail on Holden's tie that I'd never noticed before, it was rather surprising. But that depends more on what you want to get the most out of your player/experience. Personally I like Atmos, I don't have Atmos but I benefit from the 7.1 core, especially with the new movies and remastered one's you really can hear the soundscape open more. Blade Runner is a prime example of the benefit there of, the rain surrounding my theater room is almost poetic.. and Vangelis' score? ufff! Pure Bliss!!

Since I first got 7.1 I kept telling myself damn.. this would sound amazing in 7.1 but alas, they won't do it! SOOO Glad I was wrong!

Also forgot to add, I completely agree, if Kuro was the average it'd be a no brainer. But I will say I do still want a Kuro myself, in due time.. 60 inch Kuro... *droll*.. but for now I love my 3D Samsung Plasma, it does colors rather gorgeously (even before ISF), though the blacks aren't as pure as a Kuro, with the Bias light I installed, it does real well, and it doesn't bother me as much as I thought it might have, and my goal was to have something that could do 3D too, I watch movies in 3D a lot more than the average person. But dear lord I want a Kuro!! if only they'd made a 3D Kuro >_> (and I know that the Panasonic ZT60 is derived from Kuro Tech, but still!)




Quote:
Originally Posted by fathergll View Post
Is this true? I read multiple people who did A and B comparisons and said they couldn't spot the difference on a plasma or it was so small it was negligible.

It is negligible in the grand scale of things as it can't do HDR but as I mentioned above the sheer detail given in Blade Runner surprised me. Seeing detail I'd never seen on Ties and clothing kinda sold me on the format for 1080p, that being said as also mentioned above, I adopted 4K UHD on my 1080p Plasma because of the Atmos Channel. The PQ was a wonderful surprise, especially with Blade Runner. Baby Driver was also one I noticed a benefit of because of the color correction given felt more natural even on the Plasma.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fathergll View Post
Thanks for the above posts about the benefits of UHD on Plasmas.


Next question - could someone give me some models of UHD players where this is confirmed working or does any model work? Are there any special requirements...etc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
The OPPO UDP-203 for $549 is the best 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player on the market (UDP-205 has better analog audio outputs but is overkill for most consumers that only use HDMI). Sony’s UBP-X800 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player is the only other low cost 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player that plays SACD and DVD-Audio discs and it can sometimes be found for around $149.99.


I think that any works but as mentioned by HDTV1080P, those above are def some of the best, I have a Samsung UBD-K8500 with dual HDMI (one for Pioneer Elite receiver (non 3D) and one to the Samsung Plasma) and I love it, I haven't had issues that some have reported thankfully, and all movies dished at it have rocked. Though it doesn't play SACD and DVD Audio to my knowledge, I have another player (Oppo DV-970HD) for that so it's not a loss for me. But I've been very satisfied with PQ/Color Correction and Audio Quality/Compatibility of the Samsung player. It's one I can def recommend but in the end it's a matter of budget and preference. I was able to get this Samsung for free on a trade so I can't really complain.

But you can't go wrong with it considering it is backwards compatible and there are benefits to it, will you see 4K? no, but you will still take advantage of a better pressing/encoding and audio channels (when available)!
60" Samsung 3D Plasma PN60E550D1F (ISF Calibrated)
7.1 Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH - Roku 3 (4200)
Samsung UBD-K8500 - Oppo DV-970HD
Onkyo DX-C220 - JVC HRA591U VHS

Center: Advent Mini; Front: Advent Legacy III; Surrounds: Advent Legacy II; Surround Back: Advent Prodigy Tower; Subwoofer: Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX

Last edited by AnalogAperture; 12-07-2017 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:03 PM   #176
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Normally, I'm on the bleeding edge for almost every A/V format and hardware. However, I just can't justify replacing my PRO-151FD, now going 9+ years strong. Of course it's calibrated, and I even run a Murideo Prisma into it for 3D LUTs. The picture is simply incredible.

Yes, I know how good 4K can be, as I do have a 55" Samsung UHD set in the living room. But the Kuro is just crazy good on all 1080p content. And, it just won't die!! If I can keep it going for a couple of more years, I think there will be several decent native 4K projectors <$5K that I can consider making a true upgrade.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:26 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by turns2stone View Post
Normally, I'm on the bleeding edge for almost every A/V format and hardware. However, I just can't justify replacing my PRO-151FD, now going 9+ years strong. Of course it's calibrated, and I even run a Murideo Prisma into it for 3D LUTs. The picture is simply incredible.

Yes, I know how good 4K can be, as I do have a 55" Samsung UHD set in the living room. But the Kuro is just crazy good on all 1080p content. And, it just won't die!! If I can keep it going for a couple of more years, I think there will be several decent native 4K projectors <$5K that I can consider making a true upgrade.
4K is the least thing about these new sets that you might be missing out on, its wide color gamut and HDR that your Kuro is lacking that will have the biggest impact. However, the Kuro's and Panasonic's Plasma's are still holding their own against some of the new TV's.

Last edited by Auditor55; 12-10-2017 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 12-11-2017, 06:18 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
4K is the least thing about these new sets that you might be missing out on, its wide color gamut and HDR that your Kuro is lacking that will have the biggest impact. However, the Kuro's and Panasonic's Plasma's are still holding their own against some of the new TV's.


This is true. The main issue at this point is the lack of content for HDR. For 1080p material Kuros are pretty much reference quality which is what makes tough making a switch.
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Old 12-11-2017, 07:04 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
4K is the least thing about these new sets that you might be missing out on, its wide color gamut and HDR that your Kuro is lacking that will have the biggest impact. However, the Kuro's and Panasonic's Plasma's are still holding their own against some of the new TV's.
I have HDR on my Samsung 4K set, which I have connected to the OPPO UHD-203. So I get to experience HDR all the time. But I'm not terribly impressed. Sometimes it feels a bit gimmicky to me. When done poorly, it takes me out of the "movie theater experience". When done well, I guess I just haven't seen it done "right".
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:36 AM   #180
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Find a Dolby Cinema theater in your area to see Dolby Vision HDR done correctly using dual Laser DLP projectors.


https://www.dolby.com/us/en/platforms/dolby-cinema.html
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