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Old 01-03-2018, 09:36 PM   #8741
Ruined Ruined is offline
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Just watched the Synapse. More blue (attic/razorwire pit) and more contrast (Suzy's cab ride), it's also been given a more thorough dirt removal pass as the Italian master can be a bit spotty at times. I never once thought I was watching a vastly different film because of it though, I think I'm a bit Suspiria'd out as I actually got a bit bored this time and even the 4.0 audio didn't hold any surprises because the 2.0 on the Italian UHD really HAS been derived from the LCRS mix and already sounds amazing.

People can take this as veiled snark or desperate points-scoring if they must but I really don't care because it's just an opinion: in some ways the UHD was actually the more striking version to me despite its shortcomings because it looks so mundane and normal and then BAM, you get those insane reds and greens popping off the screen. But when the colour's blaring out at full volume from the start it quickly lost its effect on me.

I am NOT stating which version is more correct, that horse has long been beaten into glue, nor am I stating this to make anyone's mind up but my own. I am just stating which version affected me more and why. Being a Suspiria virgin prior to watching the TLE restoration I had no long-standing memories of DVDs or notions of colours or 35mm screenings of the film for it to live up to and the movie blew me away as a result, even more so when watching the UHD with the 2.0 audio. But this third time was definitely not the charm, I'll give it a rest for a while and then come back to it somewhere down the line.

Grazie mille to my benefactor for sorting me out with a viewing of the Synapse.
I really am impressed that Synapse sought out a rare quad mix and encoded 4.0 audio properly. That alone shows dedication rarely seen these days
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:50 PM   #8742
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the UHD was actually the more striking version to me despite its shortcomings because it looks so mundane and normal and then BAM,
I'm surprised you didn't find the low contrast and brightness on the TLE version immediately off putting.
The only time I've seen such a shitty presentation contrast wise was with Sylvia Kristels Private Lessons on Bluray. That was even more jarring because the menu is Synapse Brightness but the second the film starts its TLE World.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:30 PM   #8743
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I'm surprised you didn't find the low contrast and brightness on the TLE version immediately off putting.
The only time I've seen such a shitty presentation contrast wise was with Sylvia Kristels Private Lessons on Bluray. That was even more jarring because the menu is Synapse Brightness but the second the film starts its TLE World.
The low contrast definitely stood out but only majorly in certain sequences, like Suzy's cab ride as I mentioned. The shadows have this light greeny grey cast on the TLE but are a proper deep dark on the Synapse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
I really am impressed that Synapse sought out a rare quad mix and encoded 4.0 audio properly. That alone shows dedication rarely seen these days
I'm all for dedication, it's just that having been exposed to the LCRS mix in some form dulled my subsequent appreciation of it on the Synapse, even including the discrete channels and 96kHz sampling.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:42 PM   #8744
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I'm all for dedication, it's just that having been exposed to the LCRS mix in some form dulled my subsequent appreciation of it on the Synapse, even including the discrete channels and 96kHz sampling.
Hmmm...is the 2.0 mix really just as good as the actual dedicated 4.0 channel mix? I'm a little surprised at that....
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:47 PM   #8745
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Why? Surround DSPs have been capable of unpacking a matrixed signal for donkey's years and have become rather good at it. The LCRS layout and all that wild directionality is fully preserved inside the 2.0 mix, hence me coyly asking earlier in the thread about the directional dialogue and whatnot which plays out in the exact same way on the 4.0. As soon as the 4.0 started up and the music makes its way from front right across to front left I knew I was listening to a known quantity, the 2.0 absolutely blew me away and listening to the 4.0 after that just didn't have the same 'wow' effect. Not because it isn't as good as the 2.0 but nothing stood out as being notably better.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:56 PM   #8746
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My thoughts: I loved it! I can't stop thinking about it! It exceeded my expectations. The restoration was beyond stunning too. This will always be MY definitive version, because it was my first experience and it was love at first sight (and sound.)
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:58 PM   #8747
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Why? Surround DSPs have been capable of unpacking a matrixed signal for donkey's years and have become rather good at it. The LCRS layout and all that wild directionality is fully preserved inside the 2.0 mix, hence me coyly asking earlier in the thread about the directional dialogue and whatnot which plays out in the exact same way on the 4.0. As soon as the 4.0 started up and the music makes its way from front right across to front left I knew I was listening to a known quantity, the 2.0 absolutely blew me away and listening to the 4.0 after that just didn't have the same 'wow' effect. Not because it isn't as good as the 2.0 but nothing stood out as being notably better.
Interesting. And, as for "why?", Surround DSPs might have been capable of decoding a matrixed signal for donkey's years, but sadly I haven't had one for donkey's years so wouldn't know. That's why I asked. My current one is my first and blows away any tv or soundbar I've previously owned so it's all a bit six months old for me. Good to hear it is an actual proper matrixed signal on the UHD though. I thought without the sound the TLE would definitely be redundant for me. But I look forward to listening to it on my same surround set-up in Feb and see if it has the same power as the Synapse beast.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:59 PM   #8748
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My thoughts: I loved it! I can't stop thinking about it! It exceeded my expectations. The restoration was beyond stunning too. This will always be MY definitive version, because it was my first experience and it was love at first sight (and sound.)
I had a nightmare last night. I dreamt my Bluray was the TLE version in mono. More frightening than the film itself
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:08 PM   #8749
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I had a nightmare last night. I dreamt my Bluray was the TLE version in mono. More frightening than the film itself
YIKES!!!! That is a nightmare indeed. Having said that, the Italian standard TLE disc is awful sound wise. So weak compared to the 4.0 track. Definitely wasn't impressed with that.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:21 PM   #8750
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(the death of pat hingle at the start being one).


[Show spoiler]I know it's the character's name, but the fact that the character's name is Pat Hingle still makes me think of this guy and giggle.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:22 PM   #8751
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My thoughts: I loved it! I can't stop thinking about it! It exceeded my expectations. The restoration was beyond stunning too. This will always be MY definitive version, because it was my first experience and it was love at first sight (and sound.)
You are very lucky indeed to have experienced SUSPIRIA for the first time by way of this restoration. I first discovered the film on fullscreen VHS videocassette a lifetime ago.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:25 PM   #8752
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You are very lucky indeed to have experienced SUSPIRIA for the first time by way of this restoration. I first discovered the film on fullscreen VHS videocassette a lifetime ago.
Yeah, same here. Definitely a lifetime ago lol
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:39 PM   #8753
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Interesting. And, as for "why?", Surround DSPs might have been capable of decoding a matrixed signal for donkey's years, but sadly I haven't had one for donkey's years so wouldn't know. That's why I asked. My current one is my first and blows away any tv or soundbar I've previously owned so it's all a bit six months old for me. Good to hear it is an actual proper matrixed signal on the UHD though. I thought without the sound the TLE would definitely be redundant for me. But I look forward to listening to it on my same surround set-up in Feb and see if it has the same power as the Synapse beast.
You a surround sound virgin, me a Suspiria virgin, cherries just be gettin' popped all over the place!!
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:40 PM   #8754
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Big no-no with a 2- and 6-year old girl sleeping next door. I wouldn't hear them if they start crying/ fall out of bed/need me.
It's high time your kids toughened up! There's no room for snowflakes in this house!
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:42 PM   #8755
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You a surround sound virgin, me a Suspiria virgin, cherries just be gettin' popped all over the place!!
very good!
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:48 PM   #8756
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There are places where it's more absurdly colourful than the Synapse! (the death of pat hingle at the start being one).
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:50 PM   #8757
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Why? Surround DSPs have been capable of unpacking a matrixed signal for donkey's years and have become rather good at it.
The 4 track mix on the Synapse was restored from the original discrete mag masters. That allowed them to do modern noise reduction track by track which should in theory result in a broader dynamic range than a matrixed mix from decades ago. Matrixed surround is OK for TV shows, but this one is a real stunner. It sounds better than the CD they included. It has to be played loud for full effect. Otherwise a lot of the subtlety in the quiet touches fall into the noise floor of your room.

Last edited by bigshot; 01-03-2018 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:03 AM   #8758
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The 4 track mix on the Synapse was restored from the original discrete mag masters. That allowed them to do modern noise reduction track by track which should in theory result in a broader dynamic range than a matrixed mix from decades ago. Matrixed surround is OK for TV shows, but this one is a real stunner. It sounds better than the CD they included. It has to be played loud for full effect. Otherwise a lot of the subtlety in the quiet touches fall into the noise floor of your room.
I can only tell you what my ears told me. They're not the best, but what can you do?
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:14 AM   #8759
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My thoughts: I loved it! I can't stop thinking about it! It exceeded my expectations. The restoration was beyond stunning too. This will always be MY definitive version, because it was my first experience and it was love at first sight (and sound.)
Welcome to the club! The first time I watched it I was completely obsessed like you. I couldnít get the theme out of my head and I kept playing certain scenes in my mind over and over.
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:15 AM   #8760
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The 4 track mix on the Synapse was restored from the original discrete mag masters. That allowed them to do modern noise reduction track by track which should in theory result in a broader dynamic range than a matrixed mix from decades ago.
Actually, the original 4-track was in too poor a shape to use. But the DME (dialogue-music-effects) mixing stems for each channel were in perfect shape, and allowed them to completely reconstruct the 4 channel mix from earlier-generation elements, using the original 4.0 as a guide for levels. So Synapse was actually working from a 12-track master, all in 24/96.

And the results are spectacular.
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