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Old 12-09-2015, 10:07 PM   #401
filmmusic filmmusic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
Just how much grain did the original artwork have?
I'm sorry, but this argument that is used over and over, is not really an argument.
The original artwork was filmed! So as to be a film!
A grainless image (the original artwork) may seem pretty as a single photo, but is another thing when you see a film of a series of these photos thus giving the impression of movement.

And I say this again, the Bluray isn't the original artwork EITHER! (unless it's a CAPS film -although there are arguments about that too.).
There is grain (not moving) on the background, which wasn't painted by the artists.
let alone the fact that the characters are redrawn with thicker lines to seem good in HD.

Recently a friend of mine, a graphic artist, who doesn't even care for grain at all like me, told me how awful Snowhite Bluray looked to him. Like they applied a filter all over and textures were vanished, lines were thickened, the whole thing was flat etc.
It surprised me coming from him, who isn't a "nitpicker" as you would call me, as far as films are concerned.
He suggested that they must have done this so as to create a pseudo-HD, like "vectorizing" the whole image so that if you raise the resolution the result remains the same and doesn't lose "quality" (eg. blurring and stuff)

Last edited by filmmusic; 12-09-2015 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 12-09-2015, 11:37 PM   #402
PeterTHX PeterTHX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filmmusic View Post
I'm sorry, but this argument that is used over and over, is not really an argument.
The original artwork was filmed! So as to be a film!
Film was a "necessary evil" to get the public to see them. You can bet your entire fortune that if Disney had CAPS available to him from the start he would have used it. Because it lets them get as close as possible to the original artwork without the dust, noise, and yes...grain of film. Not to mention the generations of going from negative to interpositive to master to mass produced prints.


Even going straight from the negative will have far, far less grain than a print, not to mention different levels of color and contrast. So using a print as a comparison is ludicrous.
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Old 12-12-2015, 01:46 AM   #403
Lnds500 Lnds500 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filmmusic View Post
This is coming from an IB Technicolor 35mm fim print from the re-issue in the 60s.
So, is that... a good thing? It's obviously a duplicate but is it a good duplicate, how worn is it etc?

Quote:
I'd prefer black crush than grainless flat images.
it's a matter of what do you have as priority.

Another comparison:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/153657
Your love of grain is clouding your judgment. The "de-grained" image has more information. Isn't the whole "grain is good" argument about how de-graining the image removes the finer details of an image?

Well, in this case, **** grain, you lose image info!
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Old 12-12-2015, 02:02 AM   #404
filmmusic filmmusic is offline
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Originally Posted by Lnds500 View Post
Isn't the whole "grain is good" argument about how de-graining the image removes the finer details of an image?

Well, in this case, **** grain, you lose image info!
well for me it's not ONLY about detail.
i prefer grain because it gives life and depth to the animation and ties harmonically all the elements together (foreground with background).
So, as I've said I prefer that even if I have to see some darker areas here and there.

I don't know about the quality of the print in motion (I know that 3 minutes appear a bit blurry because there was warping), but the screenshots look quite good.
And as you see the colors are also quite good. I mean they are not faded to red or anything.
Of course a scan of the original negative would be much better, but comparing to Bluray I prefer this look since we don't have anything better.

Last edited by filmmusic; 12-12-2015 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 01-01-2016, 01:38 AM   #405
Lnds500 Lnds500 is offline
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So as some of you have noticed, imageshack has gone to s**t so I will probably be moving all the comparisons on flickr sometime in January (hopefully).
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:52 AM   #406
Poya Poya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lnds500 View Post
So as some of you have noticed, imageshack has gone to s**t so I will probably be moving all the comparisons on flickr sometime in January (hopefully).
Are you almost finished with that?
For every laugh, there should be a tear. - Walt Disney
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Old 05-20-2016, 06:44 PM   #407
miniroll32 miniroll32 is offline
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Just out of interest, I've made a little comparison between the Blu-ray of The Little Mermaid (bottom) and a documentary recorded shortly after the movies original release (top).

Wait, wait... Here comes Lee Marvin! Thank god; he's always drunk and violent! - Homer Simpson
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:13 AM   #408
filmmusic filmmusic is offline
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Lnds i'm trying to send you a private message but it seems your folder is full!
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:28 AM   #409
Lnds500 Lnds500 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filmmusic View Post
Lnds i'm trying to send you a private message but it seems your folder is full!
Send again
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Old 05-10-2017, 06:15 AM   #410
DawnShadow DawnShadow is offline
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I'd love to see these comparisons re-uploaded
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Old 05-16-2017, 07:06 PM   #411
78deluxe 78deluxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filmmusic View Post
I'm sorry, but this argument that is used over and over, is not really an argument.
The original artwork was filmed! So as to be a film!
A grainless image (the original artwork) may seem pretty as a single photo, but is another thing when you see a film of a series of these photos thus giving the impression of movement.

And I say this again, the Bluray isn't the original artwork EITHER! (unless it's a CAPS film -although there are arguments about that too.).
There is grain (not moving) on the background, which wasn't painted by the artists.
let alone the fact that the characters are redrawn with thicker lines to seem good in HD.

Recently a friend of mine, a graphic artist, who doesn't even care for grain at all like me, told me how awful Snowhite Bluray looked to him. Like they applied a filter all over and textures were vanished, lines were thickened, the whole thing was flat etc.
It surprised me coming from him, who isn't a "nitpicker" as you would call me, as far as films are concerned.
He suggested that they must have done this so as to create a pseudo-HD, like "vectorizing" the whole image so that if you raise the resolution the result remains the same and doesn't lose "quality" (eg. blurring and stuff)
The idea that the original intent was for the imperfections of film to be a part of the plan is unsubstantiated as far as anything I've heard or read.

Do you think musicians in the 1930s intended for the recordings they made to have noise, flutter, speed and pitch fluctuation? Of course not, but that was a limiting factor of the technology they had at the time. I'm sure the vast majority would have preferred better sounding reproduction of the instruments and voices recorded. Just like I'm sure the artists painting the cells would have loved for the original cells to be seen in the best quality possible in motion.

Animating hand painted cells in the time frame is no different.
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Old 07-10-2017, 03:59 PM   #412
Warstorck Warstorck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnShadow View Post
I'd love to see these comparisons re-uploaded
I second that motion.
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Old 01-04-2018, 08:57 AM   #413
thinredline thinredline is offline
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Cinderella

(image taken from originaltrilogy.com)
original 35mm print (left), Blu-ray (right):
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:58 PM   #414
Poya Poya is offline
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What have they done to Peter Pan?:

For every laugh, there should be a tear. - Walt Disney

Last edited by Poya; 04-24-2018 at 03:31 AM.
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:12 AM   #415
crazybeats crazybeats is offline
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It's a shame many movies look nothing like they did when originally released but that's just how it is.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:09 AM   #416
AnhKiet911 AnhKiet911 is offline
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Thanks for the comparisons!
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Old 02-26-2018, 12:12 AM   #417
StarkRomanoff StarkRomanoff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinredline View Post
Cinderella

(image taken from originaltrilogy.com)
original 35mm print (left), Blu-ray (right):
The Cinderella blu has been on my wishlist for years but my god they destroyed the detail! I much prefer the duller film print than a bright blob in this case.
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\__/\__/
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( . . . . . . )
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Old 02-26-2018, 12:34 AM   #418
Hardback247 Hardback247 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkRomanoff View Post
The Cinderella blu has been on my wishlist for years but my god they destroyed the detail! I much prefer the duller film print than a bright blob in this case.
Is there any chance for a new restoration for the Signature Collection?
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:27 PM   #419
Jim Collins Jim Collins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardback247 View Post
Is there any chance for a new restoration for the Signature Collection?
No other movie was digitally restored for the Signature Collection, so propably no
Once Upon A Time
October 23, 2011 - May 18, 2018

Titanic 4K?
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Old 04-24-2018, 01:10 AM   #420
Poya Poya is offline
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SO GLAD this is getting attention on Twitter!:

https://twitter.com/stephen_duignan/...45621945323520
For every laugh, there should be a tear. - Walt Disney
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