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View Poll Results: When do you think PS5 will be announced?
2018 5 4.95%
2019 32 31.68%
2020 49 48.51%
2021 15 14.85%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-14-2017, 11:15 AM   #101
devineki devineki is offline
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With an UHD Blu-Ray Drive in PS4 Pro, Sony could have waited 2019, but without Sony don't have the choice, it will be holiday 2018 for PS5. In any case Sony can not afford an incompatibility with ps4 games catalog.
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:32 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_rigby View Post
We both may be correct. Guess: Next PS4 is a step upgrade from PS4 Pro with UHD Media capable I went back to the SRI drafts and finally realized the power caps for 2019 define two separate UHD consoles and neither can be the PS4 Pro.



PS4 Pro does not have the DRM protections for UHD Media. If this is what is understood by Sony then the Pro is not a true UHD Media console, there is a UHD Media PS4 that does have UHD Blu-ray coming and since it does not need as powerful a GPU for 4K gaming it can come sooner. Tier 4 now has a UHD Media capable Power Cap of 60 watts and a UHD Gaming console with a power cap of 70 watts for HD media and 110 watts for 4K media. This confirms there are two separate definitions and the Tier 3 power caps for the PS4 Pro are higher than 60 watts in Media mode, that eliminates the Pro as one of the two consoles being released 2018-2019.

Holiday 2018 something greater than PS4 Pro with UHD media DRM
Holiday 2028 or sometime 2019 UHD Gaming capable with UHD Media DRM

This makes sense of the several conflicting rumors.
4K Bluray playback is ideal for me. I plan to move into a new apartment in 2019 so I have delayed a 4K tv purchase until then.

By the way, holiday 2028? . We will have holograms by then!
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Old 08-14-2017, 09:54 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
They already set a bad precedent by not including a 4K player in their 4K console. I won't put anything past them now.

How so? At the time 4kuhd was not very big when pro came out, it is still nothing in comparison to normal blu rays released. So they chose not to include one in order to keep the cost down. In fact by not including the 4k player they released the pro at the same price as a ps4 was at the time and lowered non pro ps4, so they didn't even have to raise the price.

Having a 4k player in it was not mandatory for any reason at all. 4k players prices were pretty high when pro came out and that's just for the player alone, they still aren't cheap yet. If they included one and charged you 150 bucks more you'd be pissed about a expensive ps4.

Or did you forget yes a ps4 can play movies and such but it is still a GAMING CONSOLE.
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:08 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devineki View Post
With an UHD Blu-Ray Drive in PS4 Pro, Sony could have waited 2019, but without Sony don't have the choice, it will be holiday 2018 for PS5. In any case Sony can not afford an incompatibility with ps4 games catalog.
Kinda annoyed with Sony for skimping out on this. I wonder if it was pressure from the other departments within the co. or if the sole reason was truly undercutting the Pro's manufacturing price.
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:18 AM   #105
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I wonder if they will go with a two-console ecosystem right from the start of next gen. PS5 and PS5 EX (or Pro, whatever), with the latter pushing 160% computational/250% graphical advantage. Pro was cited to extend the lifespan of this gen, but I also wonder if this was also done to help ease the consciousness of the PS4 playerbase into a 2-console ecosystem now.

We saw from the thrashing, the Xbox brand got years ago, that gamers are sensitive to new changes as a new gen starts. Heck when the PS4 "NEO" rumours dropped last year, there were gamers who did not like it. But Sony busted Pro out while PS4 is popular so any damage was greatly dampened.

It will be advantageous to do this, because they effectively eliminate console gaming's Achille's Heel, and that is 30fps. A lot of hardcore gamers prefer PC gaming cuz they want higher framerates and Sony can't control the Hz specs a dev decides on. But they can offer two SKUs to develop for, like what Nintendo is doing with their Switch in docked and undocked mode.
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Old 08-15-2017, 01:34 PM   #106
rodneyfaile rodneyfaile is offline
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I've always used my Playstation 3 and 4 as my main blu ray player. I wish they had made the PS4 capable of playing UHD movies. If the PS5 doesn't support UHD, HDR and Dolby Vision, I will probably not purchase it. Movies come first for me, the games are what I consider an extra perk.
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Old 08-18-2017, 12:51 PM   #107
jeff_rigby jeff_rigby is offline
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Originally Posted by rodneyfaile View Post
I've always used my Playstation 3 and 4 as my main blu ray player. I wish they had made the PS4 capable of playing UHD movies. If the PS5 doesn't support UHD, HDR and Dolby Vision, I will probably not purchase it. Movies come first for me, the games are what I consider an extra perk.
We do know that there are two new Game console power caps for holiday 2018 but we do not know if they will be iterations of the PS4 and still called PS4.

Better to call them Holiday 2018 UHD consoles; UHD Media and UHD Gaming capable.

The SRI also says that consoles after 2019 will not have higher resolutions than UHD so some other way to define them is needed, no higher resolutions are coming just performance and power improvements.

Best guess is they are all UHD consoles and called PS4 similar to the PS4 Pro naming convention. Sony calls all PS4s UHD Capable and that may continue in the future.
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Old 01-29-2018, 05:39 AM   #108
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Personally I see PS5 and the next Xbox coming out in 2020 with a smaller possibility of it being sometime in 2019. I definitely think it won't be later than 2020 and definitely not earlier than 2019. Holiday 2019 is nearly a full two years away yet so I could see a possible fall 2019 release, it's far enough away. BUT with the release of PS4 Pro and Xbox One X it makes me think that 2018 is completely out and this generation will need maybe and extra 1-2 years because of those consoles. It'll be interesting to see what the next gen consoles end up being, I'm not sure what they can add beyond the 4K stuff that the Pro and X already have but I'm sure they'll come up with something worthwhile, but that's also why Sony and Microsoft will need the extra 1-2 years to release those machines.
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Old 02-07-2018, 02:01 AM   #109
show-winner show-winner is offline
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Just bought a PS4 Pro and I hope that PS5 would not come sooner...
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Old 02-09-2018, 07:49 PM   #110
Steelmaker Steelmaker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cass083 View Post
Personally I see PS5 and the next Xbox coming out in 2020 with a smaller possibility of it being sometime in 2019. I definitely think it won't be later than 2020 and definitely not earlier than 2019. Holiday 2019 is nearly a full two years away yet so I could see a possible fall 2019 release, it's far enough away. BUT with the release of PS4 Pro and Xbox One X it makes me think that 2018 is completely out and this generation will need maybe and extra 1-2 years because of those consoles. It'll be interesting to see what the next gen consoles end up being, I'm not sure what they can add beyond the 4K stuff that the Pro and X already have but I'm sure they'll come up with something worthwhile, but that's also why Sony and Microsoft will need the extra 1-2 years to release those machines.
For whatever reason, I have a feeling it's going to be 2019. I think they'll have an event early in the year like they did with PS3 and then a full blown reveal at E3 with a November 2019 release. I think the specs will be something like this...

AMD Ryzen CPU, 8 cores at 3.6 GHz

AMD Custom GPU at 10-12 Teraflops @ 2.0 GHz

16GB GDDR5 RAM @ 400 GB/s

1TB HDD Removable hard drive (I don't think they'll include an SSD due to cost)

4K UHD Blu Ray Drive

HDMI 2.1

USB-C

Price: 499.99 (this is the new "399.99.")
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Old 02-11-2018, 12:14 AM   #111
Opips3 Opips3 is offline
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I'm not interested it.

I back to play SNES. Old games are value...than new game by 2019

Because there no score points by game. Only trophy award is cheap.
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Old 02-20-2018, 03:31 PM   #112
jeff_rigby jeff_rigby is offline
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Reference post 42

The Micron Game Console chart lower right has GDDR6 in game consoles considerably before 2020. The chart deliberately does not have any dates between 2015 and 2020 but if you chart it yourself it's almost a lock for Holiday 2018 which is what Efficientgaming.eu Tier 4 power caps for UHD media Jan 1, 2019 imply.

Then you have a recent Samsung post on GDDR6 mentioning game consoles:

Quote:
8K Resolution Using Less Power
Effortlessly processing complicated data with greater speed, such as 3D graphics or 8K-resolution video, the Samsung GDDR6 still offers outstanding efficiency, using less power than GDDR5.

Ultra-Fast, Up to 768 GB/s at 384 I/O

With data rates nearly twice as fast as the previous generation, the Samsung GDDR6 offers trailblazing speed for high-resolution video and graphics-intensive 3D games and applications.
From 2012, Sony CTO plans (8K @ 300FPS) for the PS4 have to wait 5 years (2013+5=2018)
3D graphics or 8K resolution Video = 4K per eye @ 120 FPS VR or Glassless 4K 3D on 8K TV.


Quote:
Originally Posted by https://hothardware.com/news/amd-semi-custom-silicon-may-power-atari-ataribox
So, when Su was asked by Barron’s if there was another new semi-custom chip in the pipeline, she gave a rather curious answer.

She said that there is “one additional design that will ramp in the second half of 2018.” Su went on to mention that AMD would be mum on the subject until its partner is ready to discuss the project further. We have to also consider that Su mentioned this new prospect while at the same time describing an overall softness in the console market.

In our semi-custom business, unit shipments were up sequentially and down year-over-year as we enter the fifth year of the current game console sales cycle,” said Su. “As we look at the remainder of the year and given the maturity of the current game console cycle, we expect semi-custom revenue to be down for the full year.”
Efficientgaming.eu has two Tier 4 power caps for two new 2019 consoles (page 11) but only one semi-custom mentioned from AMD. I ran across this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by https://www.tweaktown.com/news/57845/playstation-5-feature-full-discrete-gpu-apu/index.html
After I had found out what this person did, I had a few questions to ask about the PS5 and what it will arrive as - especially when we look at Microsoft's upcoming Project Scorpio console. The first question I had was "will it feature a discrete GPU" to which I received a smile and a "I can't say exactly", and then I said would it feature an APU like Project Scorpio, and then there was a "no".
That would not be a semi-custom APU so if the above is true then the AMD Semi custom is likely a "Media Console" with maybe PS4 Pro performance able to sell at a very low price. A softness in the Game Console market should signal a much price reduced PS4 or a PS5. Xbox Two and PS5 expected in 2018, powered by AMD with 4K support

And that equals two consoles for 2019 and accounts for only one AMD semi-custom 2018 design win.

1) Cheap less powerful PS4 UHD Media Console (50 watts Navigation) (60 watts HD and UHD Media) If Pro performance then 8 GB GDDR6 used.
2) Expensive PS5 UHD Gaming Console with dGPU (70 watts navigation) (70 watts HD media and 110 watts UHD Media) Likely Ryzen CPU and Vega dGPU with infinity fabric connecting CPU and GPU for a slightly less efficient than APU console. GDDR6 used

Page 11 of the Gaming SRI has two tier 4 (2019) powercaps.

EU SRI power caps are generally lower each year. The SRI rules are as follows:
1) A stakeholder (Sony) informs the EU of a new console(s) and it's Tier/power use/cap.
2) During the year it applies (2019), 90% of the console sales have to meet that power cap.
3) Sony has to test and confirm this by Feb 28th of the following year (2020 in this case). Independent testing to confirm is also done.
4) This time, 2019, has two Console definitions with different power caps. Each have to comply with the power cap rules in their category. 90% of the UHD Media consoles sold in 2019 have to comply with the Power caps for the UHD Media console and 90% of the UHD Gaming Consoles sold in 2019 have to comply with the power caps for the UHD Gaming Console.

Note: The 2019 UHD Gaming console power caps are only a very small amount larger than the measured power used by the 2017 PS4 Pro while the UHD Media console is significantly smaller.

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 02-23-2018 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 02-20-2018, 03:51 PM   #113
Steedeel Steedeel is offline
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No way will there be a PS5 in 2018.
If you don't believe in VR, you haven't tried it!
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Old 02-20-2018, 05:55 PM   #114
dmaul1114 dmaul1114 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steedeel View Post
No way will there be a PS5 in 2018.
Yeah I can't see it before 2020 myself.

Sony and MS lose money on consoles at the start, they're not going to be in a hurry to move on as long as they're still selling well and software, PS+/Xbox Live subs etc. still selling a high levels.

The second half of generations is when they make the most profits. So I see this stretching 7ish years just like last gen. Even more so since Sony and MS did mid-gen refreshes with the Pro and X and Nintendo just put out the Switch last year.
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:15 PM   #115
Steedeel Steedeel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaul1114 View Post
Yeah I can't see it before 2020 myself.

Sony and MS lose money on consoles at the start, they're not going to be in a hurry to move on as long as they're still selling well and software, PS+/Xbox Live subs etc. still selling a high levels.

The second half of generations is when they make the most profits. So I see this stretching 7ish years just like last gen. Even more so since Sony and MS did mid-gen refreshes with the Pro and X and Nintendo just put out the Switch last year.
Agreed. 2020 for me too.
If you don't believe in VR, you haven't tried it!
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:07 AM   #116
jeff_rigby jeff_rigby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaul1114 View Post
Yeah I can't see it before 2020 myself.

Sony and MS lose money on consoles at the start, they're not going to be in a hurry to move on as long as they're still selling well and software, PS+/Xbox Live subs etc. still selling a high levels.

The second half of generations is when they make the most profits. So I see this stretching 7ish years just like last gen. Even more so since Sony and MS did mid-gen refreshes with the Pro and X and Nintendo just put out the Switch last year.
The Game Consoles documented from two different cites may not be a PS5 but for sure one new inexpensive mass market UHD Media console (HDMI 2.0a) is coming (Micron GDDR6 cite (PS4 Pro performance) and Efficientgaming.eu page 11). The other, since the power caps are so close to the PS4 Pro, may be a refresh with GDDR6 or a Zen console on a MCM with GDDR6 on the motherboard.

BUT if Sony is to release a 4K/eye wireless VR goggle, there must be a console that supports it and I expect a year before the new goggles release = 2019. Sony is shipping 8K TVs 2020 and the same applies for that TV supporting 4K glassless 3D and 5 View 1080P/60FPS = 300FPS which is what the 2012 Sony CTO article stated as a goal= 8K and 300FPS = HDMI 2.1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by https://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/AMD-Working-GDDR6-Memory-Controller-Future-Graphics-Cards
Also, having their own GDDR6 memory controller means they can use it in other areas such as their APUs and SoCs offered through their Semi Custom Business Unit (e.g. the SoCs used in gaming consoles). Being able to offer that controller to other companies in their semi-custom SoCs free of third party licensing fees is a good thing for AMD.
The Micron Game Console chart lower right has GDDR6 in game consoles considerably before 2020. Mentioned is VR CAG of 150% and game console VR with higher graphics density =8k (4K/eye) The GDDR6 in consoles chart starts about holiday 2018 with a large ramp in 2019. This is either documenting the 150% CAG or two ramps for two consoles with the second still releasing in 2019 but according to the efficientgaming.eu SRI has to be before June 2019 when compliance testing starts.

Quote:
8K Resolution Using Less Power
Effortlessly processing complicated data with greater speed, such as 3D graphics or 8K-resolution video, the Samsung GDDR6 still offers outstanding efficiency, using less power than GDDR5.

Ultra-Fast, Up to 768 GB/s at 384 I/O

With data rates nearly twice as fast as the previous generation, the Samsung GDDR6 offers trailblazing speed for high-resolution video and graphics-intensive 3D games and applications.
From 2012, Sony CTO plans (8K @ 300FPS) for the PS4 have to wait 5 years (2013+5=2018) for HDMI 2.1.
3D graphics or 8K resolution Video = 4K per eye @ 120 FPS/eye VR = 8K@240FPS or Glassless 4K 3D on 8K TV.

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 02-21-2018 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:17 AM   #117
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I'm already enjoying the heck out of my PSVR Cinema Mode with it's, what, 720p resolution? The OLED blacks are great and the 3D Blu Rays are even better than my 4k 3D TV with 1080p passive in each eye television set. I would love for even 1080p VR, and would just foam at the mouth for 4k with HDR in each eye and the ability to watch my 3D Blus with 1080p in each eye in VR.

I honestly don't even care about the games at this point, just give me a PS5 with VR 2.0 with those specs and I'll be in heaven! (Along with a 4k Blu Ray of Wrath of Khan!)
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:13 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadFL View Post
Past generation release in North America.

PS1 - Sept 1995
PS2 - Oct 2000 (5 year gap)
PS3 - Nov 2006 (6 year gap)
PS4 - Nov 2013 (7 year gap)

Each generation seems to be lasting a bit longer than the prior one. If that continues the PS5 is more likely in 2020 or later than 2018.
This generation is also an exception because for the first time they've introduced a midterm console from the same generation that is the same console, but more powerful.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:18 AM   #119
jeff_rigby jeff_rigby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU View Post
This generation is also an exception because for the first time they've introduced a midterm console from the same generation that is the same console, but more powerful.
Notice in the AMD sweetspots for VR it starts with:

1080P in 2013 (PS4 release)
1440P in 2016 with the PS4 Pro
2160P (4K) should be in 2019.




Looking at the SONY Published power tiers @ efficientgaming.eu

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://efficientgaming.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/Games_Consoles_Self-Regulatory_Initiative.pdf

Tier 1 Effective from 1st January 2014 >> PS4 1.8 TF 28nm

Tier 2 Effective from 1st January 2016 >> PS4 second version 28nm Global Foundries process

Tier 3 Effective from 1st January 2017 >> PS4 slim and Pro 14nm 4 TF (Features out of Polaris and two out of Vega)

Tier 4 Effective from 1st January 2019 >> ?????????????????? TWO Power caps UHD Media and UHD Gaming
Navigation mode power caps can give us an idea of the TF performance if we know the Node size.

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 02-22-2018 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:24 PM   #120
jeff_rigby jeff_rigby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelmaker View Post
For whatever reason, I have a feeling it's going to be 2019. I think they'll have an event early in the year like they did with PS3 and then a full blown reveal at E3 with a November 2019 release.
Not likely, a November 2019 release of a new console can't comply; 90% of the consoles sold in 2019 have to comply and November 2019 to Jan 1 of 2020 only allows 2 months to sell 90% of the consoles with the following requirements.

Page 11 through 13 in the latest SRI note the HD and UHD media power caps for the 2019 UHD Media console = 50 watts Navigation and 60 watts for HD and UHD media. These are new 2019 Tier 4 power caps that the older consoles can not support.

Sony has to comply with the SRI Power caps they published for the entire year 2019 from Jan 1 to the end of the year. 90% of the consoles sold in 2019 have to comply and Sony has to publish compliance documents by Feb 28 of the following year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://efficientgaming.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/Games_Consoles_SRI_-_v2.5_final.pdf
For each Reporting Period, each Signatory shall submit to the Independent Inspector a completed Product Compliance Report for each model of Games Console that falls within the scope of this SRI by 28 February of the year following the end of the relevant reporting period. In their reporting, each Signatory shall indicate whether the console in question is a new games console, a revised model of an existing games console, or an existing games console model without change and whether at least 90 percent of the products placed on the market are compliant with the SRI requirements.

When placing a new games console on the EU market, the Signatory shall fully complete the Product Compliance Report.

• When placing a revised model of an existing games console with different levels of power consumption on the EU market, the Signatory shall refer to the previously submitted full Product Compliance Report and complete only the relevant reporting sections affected by the revision of the model.
• For existing games console models without change, the Signatory shall refer to the previously submitted full Product Compliance Report.
This means a Nov 2018 (Holiday) launch date.

It's a guess that this is Sony since a XB1 launch Nov 2018 after the XB1 X Launch the previous year Holiday 2017 does not make sense and Nintendo just launched their console last year also. There are only the three signatories; Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo.

There are two power caps for 2019 for two different consoles; 1) UHD Media and 2) UHD Gaming. The 2019 Power tiers for the UHD Gaming console are too close to the PS4 Pro to eliminate it as a refreshed 2019 UHD Gaming Console. My guess is it's a PS5. In any case we might have a 2020 power tier that could launch Holiday (Nov) 2019 but that has not been listed yet and I doubt any console is coming 2020 as that is too late for the 2020 8K TVs Sony is shipping and I expect new 4K/eye goggles from Sony by holiday 2019.

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 02-22-2018 at 04:56 PM.
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