Bitstreaming takes away menu sounds and pip!

[BIslander]

There are few issues here.

First, no player can bitstream the HD codecs with secondary audio. The soundtrack and secondary audio are separate and must be mixed in the player. Many players will decode the soundtrack, mix in the secondary audio, and re-encode the mix as a bitstream. But, that will be a lossy bitstream since no players have lossless encoders.

Next, it's a mixed bag when it comes to players that will use lossless when mixing in secondary audio for output as multichannel PCM or analog. The PS3 does that. So do the Samsung players. But, most do not. I believe the Sony players do lossless mixing with TrueHD, but not with dts-MA. Owners need to investigate their players to see how they work in this regard.

So, with most players you are left needing to change the player set-up when switching between lossless and listening to secondary audio. I have a Panasonic BD55 hooked up using analog. I need to leave secondary audio turned off in order to get lossless decoding. If I want to listen to a commentary, then I go in and turn SA on. I never bother with menu sounds.

There's really no reason to have lossless audio mixed with secondary audio. What's the point of that? But, it would be nice for the user interface so that no one would have to switch player configurations in order to hear one or the other. And, of course, you'd get those lovely menu sounds all the time.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Trix

Well I'll be! Here I was assuming that the PCM stream was full-range HD Audio. There's the last time I assume anything anymore! Even doing DAC in the player won't let me keep full-range (Panasonic BD-55). You learn something new everyday! Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

And on that note, I definitly picked the BD-55 over the BD-35 for no particular reason then! I should've read HT Mag a lot closer...

I have a BD55 hooked up with analog. You get lossless decoding as long as you turn Secondary Audio to Off in the player.

[Hep]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

thanks hep, but, the PS3 has a remedy for that, it switches to LPCM, decodes onboard and also includes the secondary audio stream as well thanks to it's cell processors. it's the only player that can do that, not so much a true bitstream but the guy will get lossless and secondary audio with his ps3 which is what he was asking and that answer wasn't incorporated in the response of BD.

however, hep, that is a great answer about bitstreaming in general and most of it holds true for the ps3 too, most of it, but not all of it!

good catch & save!

Maybe I'm missing something, but the OP didn't mention anything about the PS3 in his question .

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by stubiedoo

what do i need to do to hear the pip track then? set it to pcm?

What player do you have?

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by gyjytyas

Ok i have researching about this for a week i called sony and everything. here it goes : ps3 phat can only give ture hd and dts master audio threw LPCM via HDMI.that means ps3 phat cant bitstream because ps3 (phat) has HDMI 1.2 and deep color. If u want Ture HD and dts master audio u need to connect ur ps3 threw HDMI to home theater receiver. optical cant give hd audio.if u have a optical connection u cant bitstream theres no difference just turn it off.

Originally Posted by Hep

Maybe I'm missing something, but the OP didn't mention anything about the PS3 in his question .

Hep, i never said the original poster did mention anything about the PS3 in his question, i was refering to this persons comments. in one of my replies to the OP, i mentioned that the only player that i was aware of that could do what he wanted done was the PS3. the OP also never mentioned what player or receiver, make or models he was using. i tried to answer his question based on my own current player and past players as well as searches of this site and other on the web.

BIslander (and i agree with what he had to say in post # 21) was the first person to mention the brands samsung and some sony players, though he gave no model numbers.

anything else...

[Trix]

Originally Posted by BIslander

I have a BD55 hooked up with analog. You get lossless decoding as long as you turn Secondary Audio to Off in the player.

I have secondary audio set to off when I do any non-secondary listening (bitstream over HDMI to AVR), but I was under the mistaken assumption that since the player could internally decode, and could output LPCM with secondary audio, that it would be decoding the HD audio, and mixing the secondary in with the HD audio.

As you said, it's a mute point, however, because most secondary audio features need to be played over the movie to be useful anyways....so who cares how the movie itself sounds; I've heard the soundtrack many times anyhow!

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

BIslander (and i agree with what he had to say in post # 21) was the first person to mention the brands samsung and some sony players, though he gave no model numbers.

These are the ones I investigated before buying a BD55:

Sony S550 and S350 for sure. And I think the same functionlity was carried over to the S560/S360.

Samsung 25x0 and others with the same PCM, Audiophile, and Re-encode options. Those players do not have settings for Secondary Audio.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Trix

I was under the mistaken assumption that since the player could internally decode, and could output LPCM with secondary audio, that it would be decoding the HD audio, and mixing the secondary in with the HD audio.

I thought that, too. But, Panasonic says it takes too much processing power to decode lossless and mix secondary audio. That explanation came in an email from Panasonic engineering in Japan to Chris Boylan, who runs the website Big Picture Big Sound.