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Old 12-16-2007, 09:15 AM   #1
rock-ranger rock-ranger is offline
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Default PS3 DTS MA & TrueHD Questions

Does anyone know what happens exactly when a DTS MA or a Dolby TrueHD Track is played?

I just received my Onkyo TX-SR805 this week and no matter how I set my PS3 Audio Out (Bitstream or PCM) the PS3 only shows either 1,5MBit for DTS MA and 640k DD when I play a TrueHD Track!

Shouldn't they display higher bit rates for both of them?

And, will the PS3 ever be able to send out the original bitstream for DTS MA and TrueHD?

I was hoping for Firmware 2.0 but it was a disappointment...
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Old 12-16-2007, 01:05 PM   #2
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Is this via HDMI or Toslink?
You will only get the DTS core or DD via toslink.
Via HDMI you can get a converted TrueHD track to PCM that the 805 can handle. (no DTS-MA conversion on the PS3. maybe some day via firmware?)
You will never get a bitstream of TrueHD or DTS-HD MA to the 805 from the PS3 though.
(search will reveal why but its a hardware limitation on the ps3)

Was this what you were expecting, that the 805's HD audio lights would come on?

Need a stand alone for that.
Right now only a few streams them all. (most can't stream DTS-HD MA)
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman View Post
Is this via HDMI or Toslink?
You will only get the DTS core or DD via toslink.
Via HDMI you can get a converted TrueHD track to PCM that the 805 can handle. (no DTS-MA conversion on the PS3. maybe some day via firmware?)
You will never get a bitstream of TrueHD or DTS-HD MA to the 805 from the PS3 though.
(search will reveal why but its a hardware limitation on the ps3)

Was this what you were expecting, that the 805's HD audio lights would come on?

Need a stand alone for that.
Right now only a few streams them all. (most can't stream DTS-HD MA)
Thanks for your reply!

Well it is connected via HDMI of course. And do I get you right that even if the PS3 displays 640k bitrate only that it puts out a higher rate converted to PCM? In this case I don't understand why my Onkyo still only recognizes DD5.1!

And are you sure about the PS3 hardware limitations? I can't understand why this should not be updatable via firmware. Can't be too difficult...
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman View Post
You will never get a bitstream of TrueHD or DTS-HD MA to the 805 from the PS3 though.
(search will reveal why but its a hardware limitation on the ps3)
While that may be true, it has never been confirmed by SCEA or Silicon Image...
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esox50 View Post
While that may be true, it has never been confirmed by SCEA or Silicon Image...
Well, but that does not mean that it's possible, right?

But we have to wait and see...

For me the PS3 is a good thing, beside a few things which I'm hoping will be fixed with a new firmware (DTS MA and TrueHD bitstream out, Upscaling for SD content on Blu Ray discs, Video EQ etc.)
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:34 PM   #6
Esox50 Esox50 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rock-ranger View Post
Well, but that does not mean that it's possible, right?
We simply do not know. The specs for the chip the PS3 uses do not specifically state one way or the other. I've posed the question in the Insider's Thread (search for it there if you want the lowdown). paidgeek is obviously swamped and won't be able to answer. I'm hoping the new SCEA Insider, whenever he/she gets here, can tell us definitively.

Until then, there's a lot of FUD going around with people trying to "minimize" the PS3. They are speaking definitively and just repeating what others have said.
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Old 12-16-2007, 04:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esox50 View Post
We simply do not know. The specs for the chip the PS3 uses do not specifically state one way or the other. I've posed the question in the Insider's Thread (search for it there if you want the lowdown). paidgeek is obviously swamped and won't be able to answer. I'm hoping the new SCEA Insider, whenever he/she gets here, can tell us definitively.

Until then, there's a lot of FUD going around with people trying to "minimize" the PS3. They are speaking definitively and just repeating what others have said.
As long as the player can decode HD audio and send out PCM multichannel, what FUD are we talking about?
That it can't bitstream?
Join the club!
Only three players I know of can bitstream everything.
Should that stop people from buying PS3s?
I don't think so, it is a great game console.
But there are those who "minimize" other bluray standalones just as easily when they speak of the ps3 so the attitude does go both way.

(so is there really any FUD here?)

I have seen the specs for the different flavors of the HDMI chip that the PS3 uses.
The one initially chosen by sony was the first one released (remember that the PS3 was one of the first 1.3 units available anywhere) and the passing of HD audio was absent in the spec. Other flavors did have this spec.

You can find tear down pics of the PS3 on the net.
They show the Si9132CBU HDMI chip as the one used. (even on the new 40gig model)
Now Si does have a Si9134 HDMI chip that does bitstream HD audio.
I think this is where the confusion lies since the Si9132CBU chip is not listed on the Si web site but the 9134 is.

I also offer these common sense questions:
Sony sells receivers with HD audio now. (they didn't when the PS3 first came out)
If the PS3 was able to physically bitstream HD audio, why wouldn't they "turn" it on by now?

Now this is a different question than the decoding of DTS-HD MA which I don't think is a matter of hardware, since the PS3 certainly has the CPU muscle to decode it, but it may be more of a licensing issue with DTS. (and DTS maybe wanting a royalty off every PS3 made before giving the ok to Sony to decode it.)
Since it is public knowledge that Sony doesn't make money off PS3 hardware sales, why would Sony lose even more money by paying additional DTS royalties?

(disclaimer: this last part is pure speculation on my part and should not be construed as fact! The chipset used is easily confirmed by opening up your PS3 and taking a peak. )
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Last edited by bootman; 12-16-2007 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman View Post
As long as the player can decode HD audio and send out PCM multichannel, what FUD are we talking about?
That it can't bitstream?
Join the club!
Only three players I know of can bitstream everything.
Should that stop people from buying PS3s?
I don't think so, it is a great game console.
But there are those who "minimize" other bluray standalones just as easily when they speak of the ps3 so the attitude does go both way.

(so is there really any FUD here?)

I have seen the specs for the different flavors of the HDMI chip that the PS3 uses.
The one initially chosen by sony was the first one released (remember that the PS3 was one of the first 1.3 units available anywhere) and the passing of HD audio was absent in the spec. Other flavors did have this spec.

You can find tear down pics of the PS3 on the net.
They show the Si9132CBU HDMI chip as the one used. (even on the new 40gig model)
Now Si does have a Si9134 HDMI chip that does bitstream HD audio.
I think this is where the confusion lies since the Si9132CBU chip is not listed on the Si web site but the 9134 is.

I also offer these common sense questions:
Sony sells receivers with HD audio now. (they didn't when the PS3 first came out)
If the PS3 was able to physically bitstream HD audio, why wouldn't they "turn" it on by now?

Now this is a different question than the decoding of DTS-HD MA which I don't think is a matter of hardware, since the PS3 certainly has the CPU muscle to decode it, but it may be more of a licensing issue with DTS. (and DTS maybe wanting a royalty off every PS3 made before giving the ok to Sony to decode it.)
Since it is public knowledge that Sony doesn't make money off PS3 hardware sales, why would Sony lose even more money by paying additional DTS royalties?

(disclaimer: this last part is pure speculation on my part and should not be construed as fact! The chipset used is easily confirmed by opening up your PS3 and taking a peak. )
Hey, I do not want to minimize anything. But it's just better to have a pure bitstream out instead of letting the PS3 decode it.

Sure most people would be happy enough with that solution. But I still have the feeling that something is not 100% correct with it. As mentioned before I still get only the core data rates displayed so I wonder why...

And DTS MA is something I really miss as I have some good titles who have this audio track.

The PS3 is a great game console at a good price, no question.

And if you see how long it took Sony just to "turn on" 24p it would not surprise me if they come up with a DTS MA update someday!
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:51 PM   #9
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Why do you like the pure bitstream output instead of ps3 decoding it?
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhaase View Post
Why do you like the pure bitstream output instead of ps3 decoding it?
I prefer the same . . . a receiver's sole purpose is to receive signals, unscramble them, and put them out as audible sound. I trust my Pioneer Elite to do a better job of unscrambling the signal than the PS3. I've tested this with standard DD and DTS tracks and with the PS3 bitstreaming to the receiver, the sound is a little better. The lack of bitstreaming advanced audio is the only reason I'm still contemplating buying a stand alone player.

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Last edited by BStecke; 12-16-2007 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhaase View Post
Why do you like the pure bitstream output instead of ps3 decoding it?
Well, first of all I have read somewhere that it is always better to let the AV Receiver decode it for whatever reason. Unfortunately I cannot find that article anymore so I can't send you the link.

But aside from this I still have the feeling that the PS3 does not fully support TrueHD as it still shows only the core 640k data rate.

I did not check to set the output to PCM generally as this is no option for me as with this setting even standard DD and DTS will be sent out as PCM.

And, finally I have learned that DTS MA is not supported by the PS3 at all which is in fact a disappointment as many titles I own does have such a track.

I'm sure you will agree with me that it does not make sense to buy a new AV reveiver which supports all new audio standards and feed it with pre-decoded material in PCM. You don't know what's happening and also you will not benefit from the information which is shown in your receiver display as you will always see PCM only!

I doubt that bitstream out is a problem because of the chipset used, as it is 1.3 it should be good enough to support bitstream out for the new standards by a firmware upgrade. As it can send PCM it surely has enough room for these as well.

I really like the PS3 as a blu ray player (I don't play games on it!) and I have thought about replacing it with an affordable standalone player like the Samsung 1400, but then you get a machine which does not have the same upscaling quality for standard DVD's and a much slower disc access...

So I still hope that the PS3 will be perfected by a few things which are important for me (e.g. upscaling of SD content on blu ray discs)
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rock-ranger View Post
But aside from this I still have the feeling that the PS3 does not fully support TrueHD as it still shows only the core 640k data rate.
If the PS3 is set to output Linear PCM, if a TrueHD track is selected and you push the display button on the PS3 remote, it will show that it is playing a TrueHD track and output it as PCM. The TrueHD track is almost never set as the default track, are you not selecting the TrueHD track?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rock-ranger View Post
I really like the PS3 as a blu ray player (I don't play games on it!) and I have thought about replacing it with an affordable standalone player like the Samsung 1400, but then you get a machine which does not have the same upscaling quality for standard DVD's and a much slower disc access...
Not to mention consistently late firmware updates. If you're going standalone, the new Panasonic is the only way to go. As far as the upscaling quality, I've heard the Samsungs actually do a pretty good job.

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Old 12-16-2007, 06:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BStecke View Post
I prefer the same . . . a receiver's sole purpose is to receive signals, unscramble them, and put them out as audible sound. I trust my Pioneer Elite to do a better job of unscrambling the signal than the PS3. I've tested this with standard DD and DTS tracks and with the PS3 bitstreaming to the receiver, the sound is a little better. The lack of bitstreaming advanced audio is the only reason I'm still contemplating buying a stand alone player.
Yeah, that's what I think as well! Thanks for mention it.
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rock-ranger View Post
But aside from this I still have the feeling that the PS3 does not fully support TrueHD as it still shows only the core 640k data rate.

ehhh...no. The PS3 can and does decode Dolby TrueHD.

You my friend, have a setting incorrect somewhere.

Settings - BD/DVD Settings - BD Audio Output Format (HDMI) - Linear PCM

then select the Dolby TrueHD track on the disc, and when movie is playing hit the "display" button on the bd remote. As BStecke said, you will see it display Dolby TrueHD on the TV.
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rock-ranger View Post
I did not check to set the output to PCM generally as this is no option for me as with this setting even standard DD and DTS will be sent out as PCM.
you can toggle back and forth during a movie...hit the triangle button and go to AV Settings
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BStecke View Post
If the PS3 is set to output Linear PCM, if a TrueHD track is selected and you push the display button on the PS3 remote, it will show that it is playing a TrueHD track and output it as PCM. The TrueHD track is almost never set as the default track, are you not selecting the TrueHD track?



Not to mention consistently late firmware updates. If you're going standalone, the new Panasonic is the only way to go. As far as the upscaling quality, I've heard the Samsungs actually do a pretty good job.
I have tested my PS3 with set to Linear PCM with DTS MA only. I will test it with TrueHD as well, but even if this will work this is no option for me as the PS3 will decode standard DD and DTS to PCM as well...

As for the Samsung, I have read a review that the upscaling pretty good, but not as good as the PS3. The Denon DVD players should be even better, but I don't want to spend that extra money...
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackinhedz View Post
you can toggle back and forth during a movie...hit the triangle button and go to AV Settings
Thanks for the Info. I will check that asap!
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:25 PM   #18
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PS3 can decode D TRueHD, it just can't do DTS HD Master. All you'll get from DTS is the core 1.5mbps.
Quote:
Why do you like the pure bitstream output instead of ps3 decoding it?
I prefer it because I spend about $1000 for a receiver, might as well do its job. Plus, I like to see TRueHD or DTS HD Master on my receiver screen
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rock-ranger View Post
I have tested my PS3 with set to Linear PCM with DTS MA only. I will test it with TrueHD as well, but even if this will work this is no option for me as the PS3 will decode standard DD and DTS to PCM as well...
As crackin said, you can change it on the fly. If I have a DVD or BD with only standard DTS or DD, I leave it on bitstream. If it's TrueHD, DTS HD, or PCM, I leave it on PCM (although I can't tell a difference between PCM handled by the receiver or the PS3, which should be the case).

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Old 12-16-2007, 06:33 PM   #20
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Sorry guys im new to the world of home entertainment so please bare with me. My question is this i have a denon 3808ci receiver which decodes true hd and dts hd. So when i watch a blu ray movie through my playstation 3 am i truly getting dts hd and true hd sound from my speakers?
sorry for the lack of knowledge im new to this but i did buy myself a amazing sounding system at that.
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