COLLECT WATCH TRACK RATE REVIEW APP
Manage your own movie collection and always keep it with you with our Apps. Price track movies and get price drop notifications instantly. Become a member to take full advantage of all site features.
GET STARTED

Best Blu-ray Deals

Best Blu-ray Deals, See All the Deals »
Top deals | Price drops  
 All countries United States United Kingdom Canada Germany France Spain Italy Japan
Stargate Atlantis: The Complete Series (Blu-ray)
$44.99
Love Streams (Blu-ray)
$19.99
Ghostbusters Limited Edition Gift Set (Blu-ray)
$89.96
Tie Me Up! Tie Me Down! (Blu-ray)
$19.99
Three Colors Trilogy (Blu-ray)
$39.99
The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug (Blu-ray)
$19.96
The Qatsi Trilogy (Blu-ray)
$39.99
Elvis: That's the Way It Is (Blu-ray)
$19.59
Shame (Blu-ray)
$7.99
The Walking Dead: The Complete Fourth Season (Blu-ray)
$29.99
The Essential Jacques Demy (Blu-ray)
$69.99
Jumanji (Blu-ray)
$7.99
The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (Blu-ray)
$18.96
Snowpiercer (Blu-ray)
$19.99
The Fault in Our Stars (Blu-ray)
$24.99
It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World (Blu-ray)
$24.99
Weekend (Blu-ray)
$19.99
Thalía: Viva Tour (Blu-ray)
$13.48
The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (Blu-ray)
$74.99

Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Movies > Blu-ray Movies - North America

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-02-2012, 02:15 AM   #1301
garyrc garyrc is offline
Senior Member
 
Apr 2009
Oregon, after 62 yrs in San Francisco Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluyoda View Post
Hm, it depends. I love "The Tree of Life", as it picks the best part of Christianity, and I understand why religion is a theme in the movie (50s), but I'd prefer spirituality, if you know what I mean. "The New World" is much more down my lines in this respect, and I can easily accept it. .... If the message is one worth mentioning, such as compassion to all beings, then I am fine with it too.
As a friend and I were walking out of the theater after seeing Ben-Hur, I said, "What do you think." He said, "So compassionate!" Ben-Hur is about real love -- familial, brotherly, spiritual -- and the interplay of love and hate. One critic said that Wyler was "The perfect director to humanize a spectacle" ... and he was.

I, too, love The Tree of Life. As Ebert said in his second review, "It's a prayer."

There are many degrees and types of "Religious" films. This is complicated. San Francisco's Bishop Pike (a pretty far Left of center Bishop, and a former agnostic) said that Ben-Hur was "The most deeply religious film I have ever seen." It was directed by a more or less non-practicing Jew, who still may have had some core beliefs of a religious nature, and mostly written by 5 people (certainly not just Karl Tunberg, as the credits imply) including some who were Christian (the term had a somewhat different meaning then, before the press and public accepted the definition of the Religious Right), some Jews, and one probable agnostic. Christopher Fry, the screenwriter Wyler hired to be by his side through much of the shooting, and also to give the dialog a classical sheen, has been described as a "Christian Humanist," an interesting appellation, given that Ben-Hur is at once Christian and Humanist, in one of the better senses of both words.

When Esther minimalisticly quotes Jesus (we never hear him speak), she gets to the essence of Christianity, IMO. If you can just say to yourself, "What if there is some truth of some kind to Judaism, and what if some of the things they said about Jesus are true?" then go with the flow, you'll be O.K. Let your mind go the way you might when watching a fictional film that has some truth value, like Lord of the Rings ... or The Tree of Life.

I'd recommend sitting close and having the volume up, so the movie can sweep you along the way it did 70 mm audiences (although Blu-ray is inferior to good 65mm photography and 70mm projection of 1959).

Last edited by garyrc; 03-02-2012 at 11:30 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 02:35 AM   #1302
ZoetMB ZoetMB is offline
Blu-ray Guru
 
May 2009
New York
154
27
3
Default

I think Ben-Hur can be appreciated regardless of what you think about religion in general or Christianity in particular (although you do realize that there are no "Christians" in the movie - Christianity did not begin until several hundred years after Christ's death.)

I'm an atheist and a big fan of the book "The God Delusion", but I still thought this was a great film, even if there wasn't very much reality in it.

I don't support violence, but I still watch movies that have violence. I don't have to support organized religion to enjoy a film that's partially about religion.

Etc.
loose="not tight", lose="can't find it, doesn't have anymore" or the opposite of "win".
their="belongs to", there="place", they're="they are", there's = "there is"
it's="it is", for everything else use "its"
then="after", than="compared with"
"a lot" not "alot"

A Guide to Spelling and Punctuation
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 03:00 AM   #1303
garyrc garyrc is offline
Senior Member
 
Apr 2009
Oregon, after 62 yrs in San Francisco Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoetMB View Post
.... although you do realize that there are no "Christians" in the movie - Christianity did not begin until several hundred years after Christ's death ...
Etc.
When "Christianity" began depends on how you define "Christianity."
  • We don't have a record of Jesus naming his beliefs anything ... my impression is that he considered them a continuation and clarification of Judaism.
  • Apparently some of his associates called their system of belief and behavior something like "The Way." According to the New Testament, Peter acknowledged Jesus as the Messiah, which if written in Greek, and then translated into English would be "Christ."
  • They were called Christians for the first time (as far as we know) by a different group during New Testament times. Also, within decades of Jesus, there was a Roman report of the activities of "The followers of one Christos [or Christus]."
  • But some of the early followers of Christ (in Paul's time) may well have accepted the term "Christian."
  • Some Bibles have been criticized for translating "followers of the way," and perhaps other terms, into the word "Christian."
  • The conversion of Constantine, and first the acceptance of Christianity by the Roman Empire, followed by Christianity becoming the official religion of Rome, happened several hundred years after Jesus (about 300).

Last edited by garyrc; 03-02-2012 at 09:08 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 05:00 PM   #1304
Orbert Orbert is offline
Member
 
Jul 2008
Default

Let's not forget that the full title of the movie is "Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ". I don't think it's an accident that they chose to completely drop the subtitle on the front of the box. It seems to me that for all the effort to make this the definitive presentation of the film, not getting the full title correct cannot possibly be an oversight.

On the other hand, I've never agreed with it, and I'm a Christian. It would more accurately be "Ben-Hur: A Tale of a Guy Who Happened to Live at the Same Time as Christ, and Even Crossed Paths with Him a Few Times" but that would be a bit unwieldy.

Anyway, the setting is the Roman occupation of Israel, but it is the political angle, not the religious, which provides the conflict between the title character and his childhood friend. The scenes with Christ could be completely excised from the film and it would lose very little... until you get to the end. I won't spoil the ending for the few people who haven't seen it, but it would be hard to make the ending work without the religious aspect.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 05:36 PM   #1305
blu-ray_girl_fan blu-ray_girl_fan is offline
Banned
 
Jun 2009
1
87
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitSquirreL View Post
and the whole first 40 minutes are about how Ben-Hur goes against his old friend because Ben-Hur is true to the Jews and his friend is now for the Roman Empire. The WHOLE film has a religious over tone
This aspect of the story is more about politics and military occupations than religion. It didn't matter if Roman subjects believed the same religion as Roman citizens did (indeed, most of the societies in that area of the world were polytheistic, with Christianity and Islam not even in existence at the time); Rome was interested in territorial expansion, plain and simple.

Last edited by blu-ray_girl_fan; 03-13-2012 at 03:03 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 01:45 AM   #1306
Dr Strangelove Dr Strangelove is offline
Active Member
 
Dr Strangelove's Avatar
 
Mar 2008
Los Angeles, California
178
130
Default

Picked up 2-disc collector's edition at Walmart today....yep, it's same walmart version cover.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 02:13 AM   #1307
retablo retablo is offline
Banned
 
retablo's Avatar
 
Jul 2007
Hollywood
1307
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbert View Post
On the other hand, I've never agreed with it, and I'm a Christian. It would more accurately be "Ben-Hur: A Tale of a Guy Who Happened to Live at the Same Time as Christ, and Even Crossed Paths with Him a Few Times" but that would be a bit unwieldy.
That's because the term "Christ" is a greek term meaning "the anointed one." It's not referring to him as Jesus.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 07:21 AM   #1308
garyrc garyrc is offline
Senior Member
 
Apr 2009
Oregon, after 62 yrs in San Francisco Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by retablo View Post
That's because the term "Christ" is a greek term meaning "the anointed one." It's not referring to him as Jesus.
Messiah = Anointed One = Christos = Christ.

It was a description of, or a title given to, a figure in Jewish belief. To some, that figure is yet to come, to others (most Christians, whether they are Catholic, Protestant, Greek Orthodox, or other) he has come already, and his human manifestation was Jesus of Nazareth. The authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls (who were one of the several factions of Judaism, and may or may not have all been Essenes) apparently expected two Messiahs, a priestly Messiah and a kingly Messiah. Could there be several anointed ones? It looks like they believed that.

One thing that is certain is that it was not the last name of anyone, including Jesus. Paul, writing in Greek, often said Christ Jesus, (the Messiah Jesus), rather than Jesus Christ, if we are to trust the common translations.

There is a rich variety of theological positions held by those who claim to be followers of Jesus. Some speak of The Christ of the Eternities, who somehow spoke through Jesus. Some are trinitarian, some are not, some leave it up to the individual. Some just feel that a particular Jewish Carpenter (more accurately, a builder [?]) had a wise grip on a good way to live: love God, love your neighbor as yourself, be a peacemaker, forgive your enemies, etc. Or know that, as it says in Ben-Hur, "There is God in every man."

Last edited by garyrc; 03-03-2012 at 07:23 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 01:41 PM   #1309
timcat4843 timcat4843 is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
timcat4843's Avatar
 
May 2011
Youngstown, Ohio
239
4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove View Post
Picked up 2-disc collector's edition at Walmart today....yep, it's same walmart version cover.
How much was it?
I believe Amazon has it for $14.99.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 02:39 PM   #1310
Dr Strangelove Dr Strangelove is offline
Active Member
 
Dr Strangelove's Avatar
 
Mar 2008
Los Angeles, California
178
130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timcat4843 View Post
How much was it?
I believe Amazon has it for $14.99.
I paid $9.96 plus tax
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 02:43 PM   #1311
HD Goofnut HD Goofnut is offline
Blu-ray Prince
 
HD Goofnut's Avatar
 
May 2010
Mississippi, U.S.A. DigiBooks-------------------------->87 SteelBooks™--------->117 UV-------->246
36
1625
123
131
34
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove View Post
I paid $9.96 plus tax
I paid $19.96 for the Wal-Mart version and then bought the large collector's box at Best Buy for $10.99. I then turned around and sold the Wal-Mart version for nearly what I originally paid.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 02:47 PM   #1312
timcat4843 timcat4843 is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
timcat4843's Avatar
 
May 2011
Youngstown, Ohio
239
4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove View Post
I paid $9.96 plus tax
Damn great price!

I'll have to make a trip over to Walmart tomorrow.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 03:13 PM   #1313
Dr Strangelove Dr Strangelove is offline
Active Member
 
Dr Strangelove's Avatar
 
Mar 2008
Los Angeles, California
178
130
Default

Timcat, I'm afraid, it's unavailable right now.
When it's available, order it online and pick it up later.



Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Goofnut View Post
I paid $19.96 for the Wal-Mart version and then bought the large collector's box at Best Buy for $10.99. I then turned around and sold the Wal-Mart version for nearly what I originally paid.
Yes , I was nearly pull the trigger but didn't like large boxes or digibooks
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 03:15 PM   #1314
HD Goofnut HD Goofnut is offline
Blu-ray Prince
 
HD Goofnut's Avatar
 
May 2010
Mississippi, U.S.A. DigiBooks-------------------------->87 SteelBooks™--------->117 UV-------->246
36
1625
123
131
34
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove View Post
Timcat, I'm afraid, it's unavailable right now.
When it's available, order it online and pick it up later.





Yes , I was nearly pull the trigger but didn't like large boxes or digibooks
It wasn't worth the extra $1? Have it your way.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 05:19 PM   #1315
Orbert Orbert is offline
Member
 
Jul 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by retablo View Post
That's because the term "Christ" is a greek term meaning "the anointed one." It's not referring to him as Jesus.
So it's "Ben-Hur: A Tale of The Anointed One"? I'm not sure how that makes much difference. If we're not talking about Jesus, are we saying that Judah is "the anointed one"? If that's the case, then I'm fine with it being excised, because it's downright misleading, but somehow it seems unlikely to me that that's the case.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 05:53 PM   #1316
timcat4843 timcat4843 is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
timcat4843's Avatar
 
May 2011
Youngstown, Ohio
239
4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove View Post
Timcat, I'm afraid, it's unavailable right now.
When it's available, order it online and pick it up later.
Rats!!!

I knew that price was to good to be true.
Amazon still has it for $14.99, so I'll probably order it from them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 09:59 PM   #1317
garyrc garyrc is offline
Senior Member
 
Apr 2009
Oregon, after 62 yrs in San Francisco Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbert View Post
So it's "Ben-Hur: A Tale of The Anointed One"? I'm not sure how that makes much difference. If we're not talking about Jesus, are we saying that Judah is "the anointed one"? If that's the case, then I'm fine with it being excised, because it's downright misleading, but somehow it seems unlikely to me that that's the case.
Since you quoted the post by retablo, I understand you probably don't have reference to my post at all, but for clarification:
  • In this case, whoever came up with the subtitle was talking about Jesus in a special sense, i.e., as The One, yes the anointed one, the Christ. (see my former post, if you'd like). As you obviously know ("somehow seems unlikely" LOL) they are certainly not talking about Judah as specifically being anointed in that special way, although his encounters with Jesus amounted to a blessing.
  • I would agree with the meaning of your earlier re-writing of the subtitle (even though it is too meandering to use), BUT I would add that the brief encounters with Jesus had the power to change Judah's life just as other encounters in fiction, the Bible, and rumored elsewhere, had the power to change other lives. This is a central part of the "Tale," even though it takes up little screen time.
  • These changes were not forced but happened through the example of compassion, among other things
  • Jesus of Nazareth was someone that many people throughout the years since those times have thought was the Christ, including many people seeing the film. I'd bet that the word "Christ" is known more places than the name Jesus, since there were other people named Jesus. The word "Christ" also has a more numinous feeling, more of what some people call archetypal depth. I think they used the subtitle for all these reasons, and I support it. I'm afraid they deleted it out of cowardice, because they were afraid that people would not rent or buy the movie because of negativity around the word "Christian" in the last 15 years or so, thanks initially to an astoundingly ignorant Press, and later, bloggers, treating that word as synonymous with the Christian subdivision of the Religious Right, rather than the largest religion on earth, existing in many varieties.

Last edited by garyrc; 03-05-2012 at 10:23 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 10:05 PM   #1318
retablo retablo is offline
Banned
 
retablo's Avatar
 
Jul 2007
Hollywood
1307
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbert View Post
So it's "Ben-Hur: A Tale of The Anointed One"? I'm not sure how that makes much difference. If we're not talking about Jesus, are we saying that Judah is "the anointed one"? If that's the case, then I'm fine with it being excised, because it's downright misleading, but somehow it seems unlikely to me that that's the case.
It was also originally not a name but a title. It's only misleading because of the modern connotation it has, as opposed to the original connotation.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 10:19 PM   #1319
timcat4843 timcat4843 is offline
Blu-ray Samurai
 
timcat4843's Avatar
 
May 2011
Youngstown, Ohio
239
4
Default

The epic chariot race scene is my favorite thing I like best about Ben Hur.

Seeing the 70 mm film in the theater was truly spectacular!
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 03:55 AM   #1320
Dr Strangelove Dr Strangelove is offline
Active Member
 
Dr Strangelove's Avatar
 
Mar 2008
Los Angeles, California
178
130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timcat4843 View Post
Rats!!!

I knew that price was to good to be true.
Amazon still has it for $14.99, so I'll probably order it from them.
It's available now and still $9.96
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Movies > Blu-ray Movies - North America


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:33 AM.