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Old 04-07-2012, 11:34 PM   #2201
Inzer585 Inzer585 is offline
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Originally Posted by dakkon View Post
The over all customer service experience is the point i was attempting to make, i am sorry for not being more clear as to the point i was attempting to make.
No problem, understand.

I've never had problems with any of my Axioms, so I've never had to contact them about anything.

Long term Axiom didn't live up to my expectations, especially for a (at the time) $407 center channel. Thought about upgrading to one of the larger models, but decided that if they can't deliver a satisfactory product in the $400 range, I'm done and moving on. IMO Axiom has some issues with several of their products that would need to be addressed before I'd ever take them serious again.

Your personal experiences with Axiom have been great and you would recommend them to everyone. My experience hasn't been the best there for I won't recommend them to any of my friends or family or even on the forums.

I'm not like Audioholics, I'm not making up a user name just to trash a company, these are true feelings on Axiom products, not made up to get revenge.

By the way the M2s make awesome computer monitor speakers
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Old 04-08-2012, 12:26 AM   #2202
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Originally Posted by dakkon View Post
Ok, Sure...

Krell+Axiom.. Well, originally i was using a NAD processor in conjunction with a Marantz MM9000 amp (135W per channel @ 8 ohm). Well, i had a chance to buy the HTS 7.1 at a VERY good price... And, as you may know Krells reputation... I could not pass it up... So, for the Krell amps....The room i have now after separating from the Navy required more power, this was evident by the clipping indicators going off on the Marantz while watching movies... Enter my Krell amps.... 250w @8ohm 500W @4 ohms, those with any electrical experience can appreciate a voltage source that doubles in power as the resistance halves.....

As me and John (this threads starter) have discussed over on the Axiom form, we agree that there is not an audible difference between solid state amps to us, i just needed more power (this however, is something that we do not see eye to eye on, but thats ok)....


With that being said, i am wanting to upgrade my processor to one with HDMI, i am thinking either the Integra unit, or the ONKYO unit...I am not willing to pay the price Krell is asking for the new s-1200u 13,000$ new.. Even used that unit is going for 9,000$.....


Enter the Axioms over Wilsons decision.. The Wilsons that i would be able to buy at my given price point would be several years old... While i really like the way Wilsons sound, as I auditioned them a couple times, for the given amount of money; i decided that i would get more bang for my buck with Axiom. Another option that i was considering was James Tanners (Brystons owner) Model T speakers, James is using Axiom drivers.. 3 (8" drivers)& 2 (5 1/4" drivers)& 2 tweeters... James did not have an estimated release date, and his price point was going to be 10-12k$

For 5k$, i was able to buy the LFR1100's in addition to a second EP600.. and i am 99% sure that this combination will be better than 5,000$ worth of wilson speakers... Maybe not the Alexandria's, which retail for close to 100k$.. but then that would be more akin to the Hyundai to Bugatti Vernon comparison...

Also, my undergrad is in Economics, so i am acutely aware of diminishing returns as well as marginal rate of return...

A final factor that went into my Axiom over Wilson decision was Axiom's customer service. What other company can you email the people who designed the speakers, and get honest recommendations as to what would work best for you, in a timely manner? Andrew actually recommended i get a smaller amp for the rear speakers, and use the KAV 250a for the front speakers... Also, I had a special request for my LFR's, that Ian was more than happy to help with.

While we must all live within our budget constraints, Axiom allows me to get more for my money...


Does this explain my thought process sufficiently?
You - my friend, need to hit my "When to stop" thread!!!!! I talked about this in that thread and I've determained that I will not change my speakers again unless it's a consideralble upgrade of performance with out breaking the bank (I may upgrade crossovers and things like that but I won't change speakers until I can afford the Whispers). I listened to a lot of high end gear here recently and I can see what you are talking about. You're not saying that the Axioms are better than the Wilsons, you're just saying you're not willing to pay the Wilson premium for a performance gain not significantly greater than what you hear in the Axioms - I can go with that.

Some would say how can I compare a Klipsch Heresy to an Ariel, or to a B&W, or a Paradigm Signature, well I can tell differences and most of those are better speakers, but not by thousands of dollars (IMHO). My next move will be significant
Klipsch Cornwall L/R, Klipsch Heresy center, Definitive Technology BP2's (x4) rear, Wharfedale sw380 Subs (x2), SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2-8 inch transmission line Subs (rear), Yamaha power Amps mx830 (x2), Adcom 5503 3 channel power amp, Behringer EP4000 Power amp, BD HTPC, Xonar Essence ST/H6 modified Burson Supreme Discreet Opamps, Da-lite 16:9 106" Screen, BenQ 3D Projector, LG 55 inch LED TV.
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Old 04-08-2012, 12:34 AM   #2203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post
You - my friend, need to hit my "When to stop" thread!!!!! I talked about this in that thread and I've determained that I will not change my speakers again unless it's a consideralble upgrade of performance with out breaking the bank (I may upgrade crossovers and things like that but I won't change speakers until I can afford the Whispers). I listened to a lot of high end gear here recently and I can see what you are talking about. You're not saying that the Axioms are better than the Wilsons, you're just saying you're not willing to pay the Wilson premium for a performance gain not significantly greater than what you hear in the Axioms - I can go with that.

Some would say how can I compare a Klipsch Heresy to an Ariel, or to a B&W, or a Paradigm Signature, well I can tell differences and most of those are better speakers, but not by thousands of dollars (IMHO). My next move will be significant
I think you hit the nail on the head
Pionner-1018AH-k, Emotiva-XPA-5, HSU-VTF15H, Axiom-(M80v3 x2,VP180v3,QS8vs3 x2), Vizio-4O47L, Sony-(BDP-S350,PS3 Slim 120GB), Monoprice-(USP,Speakerwires/Interconnects), Logitech Harmony-H659, Enjoys-Wife,3sons,and of course The MECKA
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Old 04-08-2012, 12:36 AM   #2204
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Originally Posted by DimeMecka View Post
I think you hit the nail on the head
Ouch
Brent

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Old 04-08-2012, 01:05 AM   #2205
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Originally Posted by crazyBLUE View Post
Ouch
crazy, how many times must we tell you: "keep your head away from the tops (or the bottoms) of nails", will you never learn!?!
55" Sony SXRD KDS-A552000 1080P
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Onkyo PR-SC5507P Pre/Pro; TX-NR525 Harmony 1, SB-Touch, Axiom Spkrs M80v3, VP180v3, QS8v3, QS4v3 M2v3, Front 3 Bi-Wired! Emotiva XPA-5, UPA-2, UPA-200, & mini-x Amps, XDA-1DAC, X-Ref 12 DSP Sub & Ultra Subs 12 Polk Audio SDA-2, Monitor 10 & Monitor 5Jr speakers
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:25 AM   #2206
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Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
crazy, how many times must we tell you: "keep your head away from the tops (or the bottoms) of nails", will you never learn!?!
You see solarrdadd ~ I am crazy I will never learn
Brent

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Old 04-08-2012, 01:46 AM   #2207
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Originally Posted by prerich View Post
You - my friend, need to hit my "When to stop" thread!!!!! I talked about this in that thread and I've determained that I will not change my speakers again unless it's a consideralble upgrade of performance with out breaking the bank (I may upgrade crossovers and things like that but I won't change speakers until I can afford the Whispers). I listened to a lot of high end gear here recently and I can see what you are talking about. You're not saying that the Axioms are better than the Wilsons, you're just saying you're not willing to pay the Wilson premium for a performance gain not significantly greater than what you hear in the Axioms - I can go with that.

Some would say how can I compare a Klipsch Heresy to an Ariel, or to a B&W, or a Paradigm Signature, well I can tell differences and most of those are better speakers, but not by thousands of dollars (IMHO). My next move will be significant

You sir , hit the nail on the head. Im getting on in years and my hearing is not up to spec so the axioms do it for me,with a decent price to boot.
Freind of Bill W
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:30 AM   #2208
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Originally Posted by crazyBLUE View Post
You see solarrdadd ~ I am crazy I will never learn
LOL.... Crazy no INSANE maybe
Pionner-1018AH-k, Emotiva-XPA-5, HSU-VTF15H, Axiom-(M80v3 x2,VP180v3,QS8vs3 x2), Vizio-4O47L, Sony-(BDP-S350,PS3 Slim 120GB), Monoprice-(USP,Speakerwires/Interconnects), Logitech Harmony-H659, Enjoys-Wife,3sons,and of course The MECKA
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:38 AM   #2209
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LOL.... Crazy no INSANE maybe
I will except that

It is time to warm up the amps & toss something up on the PJ. Going to see how many neighbors I can piss off with 9 speakers & 3 subs
Brent

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Old 04-08-2012, 02:39 AM   #2210
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Originally Posted by crazyBLUE View Post
I will except that

It is time to warm up the amps & toss something up on the PJ. Going to see how many neighbors I can piss off with 9 speakers & 3 subs
Thats what I'm talking about.
Pionner-1018AH-k, Emotiva-XPA-5, HSU-VTF15H, Axiom-(M80v3 x2,VP180v3,QS8vs3 x2), Vizio-4O47L, Sony-(BDP-S350,PS3 Slim 120GB), Monoprice-(USP,Speakerwires/Interconnects), Logitech Harmony-H659, Enjoys-Wife,3sons,and of course The MECKA
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:43 AM   #2211
prerich prerich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyBLUE View Post
I will except that

It is time to warm up the amps & toss something up on the PJ. Going to see how many neighbors I can piss off with 9 speakers & 3 subs
Crazy, I have an entire second system doing nothing ( 3 Snell E-II's, 2 Atlantic technology THX 352PBM subwoofers, 2 AR M.5's, and a hdmi receiver to boot)! I'm chillin' watching The Ten Commandments - so let it be written, so let it be done!
Klipsch Cornwall L/R, Klipsch Heresy center, Definitive Technology BP2's (x4) rear, Wharfedale sw380 Subs (x2), SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2-8 inch transmission line Subs (rear), Yamaha power Amps mx830 (x2), Adcom 5503 3 channel power amp, Behringer EP4000 Power amp, BD HTPC, Xonar Essence ST/H6 modified Burson Supreme Discreet Opamps, Da-lite 16:9 106" Screen, BenQ 3D Projector, LG 55 inch LED TV.
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:46 PM   #2212
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Still working on a system here actually, though Im having fun making it for someone else

Im back working on the Axioms with my brother, we found the Klipsch rather harsh. Their horns are not like the JBL horns. Almost a metallic version of the highs...

We're going to take advantage of the 30 day axiom in home audition.

Settled for the M22/VP150/QS8 x 4 with a sub.

Just a question, I was looking at the frequency graph for the M22 and the QS8's as well as the VP150 and found that they have a relative flat response all the way to 100Hz and then a roll off towards 80. Now commonly I use 80Hz as the crossover towards the sub, but in this case would 100hz be better as the crossover? Pro's and cons? And really, what would be recommended by the Axiomites here? 80 or 100? I know I can test them both, but at the same time I hate wasting time.
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Old 04-08-2012, 03:51 PM   #2213
Inzer585 Inzer585 is offline
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Cross them at 100hrz. VP150 and QS8s have almost no output at 80hrz, 100hrz would be best for them, M22 has decent output down to 85-90.

I was dissappointed in the midbass of the 5.25" drivers, so I went with the M50s awhile ago to fill in that 60-80hrz gap. This is also dependent on your subwoofer(s) mine at the time didn't have great midbass performance and didn't blend well with the Axiom either. M50s fixed that.

My opinion stay away from the VP150 and just get the VP160 instead it would work fine with the M22s and give you much better midbass and midrange. And no off axis issues.

But try out with your choices and use the 30 day trial. I think they offer free return if you want to upgrade to something like VP150 to VP160/VP180 I think they pick up the return shipping and you just pay the difference in the price of the upgraded speaker.

What subwoofer have you decided on or are considering?

Last edited by Inzer585; 04-08-2012 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 04-08-2012, 04:35 PM   #2214
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The problem with the vp160 and vp180 is the size and for the latter size and weight. They wont fit on the console, but the VP150 will.

Sticking with the VP150, you are saying the M50 is better then the M22 for it then because of the mid bass? But wouldnt the crossover for the M50 still be at 100Hz since the others would be also? And if sticking with the M22 what would be a good sub to cover the mid bass instead? The JBL ES250 Im giving him in the meantime has a freq response of 25Hz-150Hz with a crossover freq of 50Hz-150Hz.

Wouldnt that be sufficient to cover the mid bass issues? My other concern is if setting the crossover to 100Hz, wouldnt that lead the sub to produce more of a directional bass effect which is undesirable?

Last edited by Caesu; 04-08-2012 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:00 PM   #2215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesu View Post
The problem with the vp160 and vp180 is the size and for the latter size and weight. They wont fit on the console, but the VP150 will.

Sticking with the VP150, you are saying the M50 is better then the M22 for it then because of the mid bass? But wouldnt the crossover for the M50 still be at 100Hz since the others would be also? And if sticking with the M22 what would be a good sub to cover the mid bass instead? The JBL ES250 Im giving him in the meantime has a freq response of 25Hz-150Hz with a crossover freq of 50Hz-150Hz.

Wouldnt that be sufficient to cover the mid bass issues? My other concern is if setting the crossover to 100Hz, wouldnt that lead the sub to produce more of a directional bass effect which is undesirable?
If you position the sub closer to the mains the localization issues would become less of a problem.
BIG sound!
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:01 PM   #2216
Inzer585 Inzer585 is offline
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Originally Posted by Caesu View Post
The problem with the vp160 and vp180 is the size and for the latter size and weight. They wont fit on the console, but the VP150 will.

Sticking with the VP150, you are saying the M50 is better then the M22 for it then because of the mid bass? But wouldnt the crossover for the M50 still be at 100Hz since the others would be also? And if sticking with the M22 what would be a good sub to cover the mid bass instead? The JBL ES250 Im giving him in the meantime has a freq response of 25Hz-150Hz with a crossover freq of 50Hz-150Hz.

Wouldnt that be sufficient to cover the mid bass issues? My other concern is if setting the crossover to 100Hz, wouldnt that lead the sub to produce more of a directional bass effect which is undesirable?
No both the M50 and M22 have there weaknesses and strong points. M22s have great midrange and upper range clairity but lack any "fullness" or midbass in the 60-80hrz range which is were alot of drum kicks and "punch" come from. The M50s have great fullness and "punch" but lack the detail and clarity of the M22s.

The JBL should be fine, the problem for me crossing a subwoofer so high to fill in what the VP150 and M22s can't do is the sub is very locatable and gets mushy in the bass playing so high.

In the end for me I just bought a whole new system and went with another brand. I couldn't fit the VP160 or VP180 and I though the other Axiom towers don't offer the bang for the buck anymore like some of the other offering out there.
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:52 PM   #2217
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Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
An interesting thread over at Axiomaudio.com

sign of the times...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Vinyl View Post
If this is true, then I think it'll have some ramifications for Gene and Audioholics. I reserve comment however as nothing has yet been proven.
Gene confirmed on the axiomaudio thread that someone working for Audioholics posted under the name of JBall.
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:57 PM   #2218
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Originally Posted by Inzer585 View Post
I think they offer free return if you want to upgrade to something like VP150 to VP160/VP180 I think they pick up the return shipping and you just pay the difference in the price of the upgraded speaker.
In my experience they do... I exchanged a VP100 in-wall/on-wall for a VP150 on-wall and I only paid the difference between the two speakers. The reason why I returned the VP100 in-wall/on-wall was because I couldn't mount the center channel in the wall because of stud placement (I didn't moved into my new house before I bought the speaker so I did not confirm the rather awkward stud placement in that wall...).
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:01 PM   #2219
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Originally Posted by Johk View Post
Gene confirmed on the axiomaudio thread that someone working for Audioholics posted under the name of JBall.
Thanks JohK for letting me know.
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:07 PM   #2220
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Originally Posted by Caesu View Post
The problem with the vp160 and vp180 is the size and for the latter size and weight. They wont fit on the console, but the VP150 will.
I can attest that the VP160 is huge (comparing it to the VP150, I was really surprised).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesu View Post
Sticking with the VP150, you are saying the M50 is better then the M22 for it then because of the mid bass? But wouldnt the crossover for the M50 still be at 100Hz since the others would be also? And if sticking with the M22 what would be a good sub to cover the mid bass instead? The JBL ES250 Im giving him in the meantime has a freq response of 25Hz-150Hz with a crossover freq of 50Hz-150Hz.

Wouldnt that be sufficient to cover the mid bass issues? My other concern is if setting the crossover to 100Hz, wouldnt that lead the sub to produce more of a directional bass effect which is undesirable?
Regarding crossovers, you should perhaps look into getting a receiver with independent crossover for the different channels (Denon, Onkyo, Integra, Marantz receivers have that feature for all models (from what I remember), other companies may have it depending on the models...).

Also another alternative would be to get a M22 for the center channel as well. I own M22 (the in-wall/on-wall version) and M60 and I like them both. I'm pretty satisfy with the M22 paired with a subwoofer... At first I was expecting that the M22 would not be really good in the lower frequencies but paired with a subwoofer I have never found them to be lacking.

I am using a Yamaha receiver in the setup with the M22 and I had to rise the crossover (only one global value for the Yamaha) because of the on-wall VP150. I can't remember if it's at 100 or 110 Hz (the on-wall VP150 was produced a weird noise, I'm not sure how to say it but kinda clipping on the lower frequencies and I had to increase the crossover value until the noise was gone (confirmed by playing back a specific passage))... Anyway, even at that crossover frequency, I never noticed that the sound started to get directional (but then again I use this setup for casual TV listening). Right now I don't use the on-wall VP150 anymore (running it as a 2.1 system) as I am not completely satisfied with it, so I guess I could lower the crossover back to 80 Hz. But as a 2.1 setup, it sounds pretty good (for my purpose).

As a sidenote, the on-wall VP150 is much more limited than the standard VP150 is the lower frequencies. I didn't have the same issue with the normal VP150 but I was using a Denon (AVR-988) with multiple crossover points with it so I could have the M60 at 80hz and the VP150 at 90 Hz.

Last edited by Johk; 04-09-2012 at 07:53 PM.
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