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Old 04-10-2012, 12:55 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Serendipity View Post
I've seen some beautiful plasma displays, but I've also seen some terribly burned in sets too. I almost bought one, but was worried about playing games on it and station logos. The sets have gotten better over time, but I don't know if they have made a large enough leap to make me comfortable in owning one. A few guys I know who calibrate & repair TVs for a living told me I'd be crazy to buy one since they see a burned in model every week. Maybe some stories are exaggerated, but things I read on dedicated TV forums seem to warn of the fact that burn in (not image retention) are still a problem.
To permanently burn-in today's quality plasmas, you have to intentionally set about to do it, or are a complete idiot regarding caring for your TV. Normal viewing and game playing will NOT do it. I own 4 plasmas, my oldest being 9 years old. None have any hint of burn-in, and I and my kids game on them all of the time. Your "TV guys" are either seriously exaggerating or have not told you the whole story. With all of the plasma owners around here, don't you think there would be more discussions regarding permanent burn-in if it really were still a problem?
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Old 04-10-2012, 02:32 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipity View Post
I've seen some beautiful plasma displays, but I've also seen some terribly burned in sets too. I almost bought one, but was worried about playing games on it and station logos. The sets have gotten better over time, but I don't know if they have made a large enough leap to make me comfortable in owning one. A few guys I know who calibrate & repair TVs for a living told me I'd be crazy to buy one since they see a burned in model every week. Maybe some stories are exaggerated, but things I read on dedicated TV forums seem to warn of the fact that burn in (not image retention) are still a problem.
You must take into consideration that, some people deliberately misuse and abuse their plasma HDTV's by playing video games for hours on end, leaving still images on the display for long periods of time, and neglecting to utilize the anti image retention feature, to reduce permanent burn in. Any burn in that's inflicted on the plasma is caused by the user, not the technology. I've had a Panasonic plasma HDTV for 4 years, and I've never had any problems with burn in! Brand new plasma TVs are not sold with previously burn in images, so evidently the problem is the user who's responsible.

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Old 04-10-2012, 02:45 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipity View Post
I've seen some beautiful plasma displays, but I've also seen some terribly burned in sets too. I almost bought one, but was worried about playing games on it and station logos. The sets have gotten better over time, but I don't know if they have made a large enough leap to make me comfortable in owning one. A few guys I know who calibrate & repair TVs for a living told me I'd be crazy to buy one since they see a burned in model every week. Maybe some stories are exaggerated, but things I read on dedicated TV forums seem to warn of the fact that burn in (not image retention) are still a problem.
The higher end sets will get it if the image is there over a period of weeks. You can get image retention in 24hrs but that stuff is removable quite easily either by using the set's own anti-burn-in features like scrolling white and black bars (leave running over night) or by running an HD 1.78:1 signal for a day for example.

The cheaper sets expose more image retention because the blacks are more gray-ish and in those sets you can see Im' retention within hours. I have seen people come in with a set from watching 4x3 standard def' for 3 months solid and by then, it's burned in. Under normal conditions, and that includes playing a game for 6 hours solid, you don't get any IR or BI on higher end sets.

You CAN get burn-in on LED's as well but it will usually take 3 to 4 times as long. Airports who run LED LCD's see burn-in after a few months of running the same image 24/7.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:42 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Ricshoe View Post
To permanently burn-in today's quality plasmas, you have to intentionally set about to do it, or are a complete idiot regarding caring for your TV. Normal viewing and game playing will NOT do it. I own 4 plasmas, my oldest being 9 years old. None have any hint of burn-in, and I and my kids game on them all of the time. Your "TV guys" are either seriously exaggerating or have not told you the whole story. With all of the plasma owners around here, don't you think there would be more discussions regarding permanent burn-in if it really were still a problem?
I have a close friend who took a cruise with his wife for 14 straight years to celebrate their anniversary. Never once did he suffer any motion sickness. He did all the things necessary to prepare for it and he called the people that did get sick idiots for not knowing how to care for their body. On year 15 he took the same cruise, prepared the same way and spent 10 days locked up in his bathroom vomiting his guts out. So my point Ricshoe is that just because you have never had any burn-in issues with your 4 plasmas doesn't mean you won't on your fifth.

I too have mostly owned plasma's. I currently have 3 Panny plasma's in my home. My latest was bought in February. I went through the same procedure i did with the others. Ran slides, watch only full screen blah blah blah. I purchased MLB 12 The Show when it released in March. I have played a grand total of seven games. Never more than one game in one sitting. A week ago a commercial with a white background came on and i noticed a black bar burned in about 3/4 the way up on the screen. For days i couldn't figure out what content i could have watched that would have caused it, until i sat down to play a game and realized that the bar fit exactly where the score is shown on the baseball game. I certainly wasn't intentionally setting about to do it so i guess the only other option is that i'm an "idiot".
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Old 04-13-2012, 05:49 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gond13 View Post
I too have mostly owned plasma's. I currently have 3 Panny plasma's in my home. My latest was bought in February. I went through the same procedure i did with the others. Ran slides, watch only full screen blah blah blah. I purchased MLB 12 The Show when it released in March. I have played a grand total of seven games. Never more than one game in one sitting. A week ago a commercial with a white background came on and i noticed a black bar burned in about 3/4 the way up on the screen. For days i couldn't figure out what content i could have watched that would have caused it, until i sat down to play a game and realized that the bar fit exactly where the score is shown on the baseball game. I certainly wasn't intentionally setting about to do it so i guess the only other option is that i'm an "idiot".
In situations like this, If were an avid gamer (which I'm not), I most certainly wouldn't play video games on my expensive $3,000.00 HDTV. I would buy a secondary cheap, inexpensive small screen LCD or a plasma, to put in the den or a spare bedroom, to use specifically to play video games on, and maybe the internet.

Last edited by slimdude; 04-14-2012 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:22 PM   #86
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I'm currently doing a break in period as best as I can so I have both brightness and contrast set low (< 50) and I'm watching full screen whenever possible.

I have a PS3 but rarely play games, however, if I get something new I will play it occasionally over the course of a week. Therefore I was wondering if I will get burn in or IR if I keep the brightness and contrast to less than 50 (for games). Will it at least decrease the chance of IR and burn in?

I have a Samsung PN59D550.

Thanks.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:50 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gond13 View Post
I have a close friend who took a cruise with his wife for 14 straight years to celebrate their anniversary. Never once did he suffer any motion sickness. He did all the things necessary to prepare for it and he called the people that did get sick idiots for not knowing how to care for their body. On year 15 he took the same cruise, prepared the same way and spent 10 days locked up in his bathroom vomiting his guts out. So my point Ricshoe is that just because you have never had any burn-in issues with your 4 plasmas doesn't mean you won't on your fifth.

I too have mostly owned plasma's. I currently have 3 Panny plasma's in my home. My latest was bought in February. I went through the same procedure i did with the others. Ran slides, watch only full screen blah blah blah. I purchased MLB 12 The Show when it released in March. I have played a grand total of seven games. Never more than one game in one sitting. A week ago a commercial with a white background came on and i noticed a black bar burned in about 3/4 the way up on the screen. For days i couldn't figure out what content i could have watched that would have caused it, until i sat down to play a game and realized that the bar fit exactly where the score is shown on the baseball game. I certainly wasn't intentionally setting about to do it so i guess the only other option is that i'm an "idiot".
Allow me to add:

#3 - You received one of the extremely small percentage of panels that is faulty. In this case, you work with the manufacturer to get it replaced.

Seriously, if everything is as you say it is, and it is permanent, then your panel is defective. Sucks being you, but no line of electronic products (or anything mass-produced) are completely defect-free. Hopefully you'll either be able to wipe the panel clean over time or get it replaced under warranty. You short time of ownership should work in your favor. What model set was it?
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:14 PM   #88
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Red face Updating my previous position...

Okay, based on a major scare I've had for the past couple of weeks, I'm revising my previous position regarding burn-in / IR. Allow me to elaborate.

Not quite 2 months ago, my son got me hooked on Minecraft for the XBox, and I found myself having the occasional marathon sessions on the weekends. For anyone that has played the game, you'll know the inventory "squares" are always on the screen near the bottom. A couple weeks ago, after playing 7+ hours one Saturday, we popped a movie in to watch. To my horror, the inventory squares were clearly visible on the screen throughout the entire movie. When this continued into the following day, I started to seriously worry about my set, as I've never had IR last any longer than a couple minutes after watching new content. Hell, between my son and me, we've got over 300 hours of Skyrim play time, and he plays BF3 online a lot. At no time was there any IR from the static HUDs of those games.

When the IR was still present the following week, I started thinking about what I could possibly do to fix it. The IR wipe program did absolutely no good, as it only runs for 15 minutes. That may be fine for minor IR, but not for this. Ideally, I wanted to tune the set to an unused analog channel and let "snow" run to wash the screen. Unfortunately, you can't do that anymore (at least on the Panasonics). When you tune to an unused channel, the screen goes black and a notice displays informing you to tune to a different channel (thanks, Panasonic). So much for that idea.

I ended-up searching the internet for photos of random static/snow. I found ~20 of them, re-sized them all to 16x9, stuck them on a memory stick and ran a looping slide show. I was honestly afraid to check the results for some time, but after 3+ days of endless looping, I decided to check the results. Much to my relief, the IR had significantly reduced, to the point where it was no longer visible while watching other content. Running through the colored break-in slides, I noticed it was still barely there on certain colors, but you had to know what to look for to see it. I decided to run the 'snow' slides for another couple of days, and now there is no trace of the IR.

This personal experience really makes me better understand the concerns / complaints of some. I've been an avid defender of plasma against the burn-in screamers, and while I still believe that permanent burn-in is extremely rare, I now think many of the claims by folks are simply cases of serious IR. Because of my own personal scare, I've done a little more reading. It seems that IR has taken a big step backwards with the new fast-decay phosphors being used today in order to improve 3D performance. Whether there is any basis of fact in that, I couldn't say. All I know is that my 3 other 2D Panasonic plasmas have NEVER exhibited anything like what happened on my GT30, and they were all just as heavily abused with game HUDs and static images.

So, for those of you who believe you may have burn-in, try doing something similar to what I did with snow/static images. I would imagine that running other content would eventually do the same thing, but I believe the high contrast black/white snow may actually work to speed-up the washing process. As I mentioned earlier, it wasn't until after ~120 hours of constant looping of images that the IR was completely gone, so this is not something that can be "fixed" over night.

Oh, and Minecraft is no longer allowed to be played on that TV!
Genius has its limits, however there is no limit on stupidity.
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:39 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricshoe View Post
Okay, based on a major scare I've had for the past couple of weeks, I'm revising my previous position regarding burn-in / IR. Allow me to elaborate.

Not quite 2 months ago, my son got me hooked on Minecraft for the XBox, and I found myself having the occasional marathon sessions on the weekends. For anyone that has played the game, you'll know the inventory "squares" are always on the screen near the bottom. A couple weeks ago, after playing 7+ hours one Saturday, we popped a movie in to watch. To my horror, the inventory squares were clearly visible on the screen throughout the entire movie. When this continued into the following day, I started to seriously worry about my set, as I've never had IR last any longer than a couple minutes after watching new content. Hell, between my son and me, we've got over 300 hours of Skyrim play time, and he plays BF3 online a lot. At no time was there any IR from the static HUDs of those games.

When the IR was still present the following week, I started thinking about what I could possibly do to fix it. The IR wipe program did absolutely no good, as it only runs for 15 minutes. That may be fine for minor IR, but not for this. Ideally, I wanted to tune the set to an unused analog channel and let "snow" run to wash the screen. Unfortunately, you can't do that anymore (at least on the Panasonics). When you tune to an unused channel, the screen goes black and a notice displays informing you to tune to a different channel (thanks, Panasonic). So much for that idea.

I ended-up searching the internet for photos of random static/snow. I found ~20 of them, re-sized them all to 16x9, stuck them on a memory stick and ran a looping slide show. I was honestly afraid to check the results for some time, but after 3+ days of endless looping, I decided to check the results. Much to my relief, the IR had significantly reduced, to the point where it was no longer visible while watching other content. Running through the colored break-in slides, I noticed it was still barely there on certain colors, but you had to know what to look for to see it. I decided to run the 'snow' slides for another couple of days, and now there is no trace of the IR.

This personal experience really makes me better understand the concerns / complaints of some. I've been an avid defender of plasma against the burn-in screamers, and while I still believe that permanent burn-in is extremely rare, I now think many of the claims by folks are simply cases of serious IR. Because of my own personal scare, I've done a little more reading. It seems that IR has taken a big step backwards with the new fast-decay phosphors being used today in order to improve 3D performance. Whether there is any basis of fact in that, I couldn't say. All I know is that my 3 other 2D Panasonic plasmas have NEVER exhibited anything like what happened on my GT30, and they were all just as heavily abused with game HUDs and static images.

So, for those of you who believe you may have burn-in, try doing something similar to what I did with snow/static images. I would imagine that running other content would eventually do the same thing, but I believe the high contrast black/white snow may actually work to speed-up the washing process. As I mentioned earlier, it wasn't until after ~120 hours of constant looping of images that the IR was completely gone, so this is not something that can be "fixed" over night.

Oh, and Minecraft is no longer allowed to be played on that TV!
Has it occurred to you to use the Anti Image Retention feature, and utilize the scrolling bar frequently, to minimize potential burn in, after long hours of playing video games? That's what that feature is for! if any damage to the monitor is incurred, you can't blame nobody else but yourself because you can prevent such damage from occurring, if you take good care of your HDTV.
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:55 PM   #90
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I've got a 58C8000 and in the 2 years I've had it, I've only had some image retention from the round clock off the PS3's desktop image after playing music through the system for 4 days straight. I used the scrolling anti-burn-in feature for 35 mins and it pulled the image out. I've never had any issues since. I play PS3 and X-BOX 360 games on it for hours and hours and there are no problems. You just need to be logical about it. Share the time with other sources. If you play a game for 12 hours, run something full frame like HD broadcast or run the scroll for a bit. You can also get image issues with LED too but it can take twice as long to get it.

If you've got IR from the Cartoon Network logo, then you are mistaken about just how much that channel gets watched. Keep running full frame images for awhile or use that scroll!
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Last edited by DavePS3; 07-09-2012 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:14 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimdude View Post
Has it occurred to you to use the Anti Image Retention feature, and utilize the scrolling bar frequently, to minimize potential burn in, after long hours of playing video games? That's what that feature is for! if any damage to the monitor is incurred, you can't blame nobody else but yourself because you can prevent such damage from occurring, if you take good care of your HDTV.
Gee, that never occurred to me!

You're not commenting to some kid who just bought his first plasma. Obviously you missed the part where I said I've never had IR problems in any of the plasmas I've owned over the past 9 years. When you think about it from a technological perspective, the anti-IR (pixel orbiter) feature is useless for most static-type images where you have large blocks of pixels that are the same color/intensity. It's possible that running the scrolling bar every hour would have helped, but again, it's not something I've ever had to do in the past.

I fully agree that if one damages their set, it's their fault, but I'm also starting to believe that because of G**D*** 3D, plasma sets are now much more susceptible to bad IR.
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:43 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricshoe View Post
I fully agree that if one damages their set, it's their fault, but I'm also starting to believe that because of G**D*** 3D, plasma sets are now much more susceptible to bad IR.
Interesting to read that, as I am on the boat of IR is a thing of the past (even with heavy gaming/static images), but a change in tech (for 3D) looks like IR may have taken a step back.

Buyer beware I suppose - do your research!

Thanks for sharing Rischoe.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:14 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricshoe View Post
[Show spoiler]Okay, based on a major scare I've had for the past couple of weeks, I'm revising my previous position regarding burn-in / IR. Allow me to elaborate.

Not quite 2 months ago, my son got me hooked on Minecraft for the XBox, and I found myself having the occasional marathon sessions on the weekends. For anyone that has played the game, you'll know the inventory "squares" are always on the screen near the bottom. A couple weeks ago, after playing 7+ hours one Saturday, we popped a movie in to watch. To my horror, the inventory squares were clearly visible on the screen throughout the entire movie. When this continued into the following day, I started to seriously worry about my set, as I've never had IR last any longer than a couple minutes after watching new content. Hell, between my son and me, we've got over 300 hours of Skyrim play time, and he plays BF3 online a lot. At no time was there any IR from the static HUDs of those games.

When the IR was still present the following week, I started thinking about what I could possibly do to fix it. The IR wipe program did absolutely no good, as it only runs for 15 minutes. That may be fine for minor IR, but not for this. Ideally, I wanted to tune the set to an unused analog channel and let "snow" run to wash the screen. Unfortunately, you can't do that anymore (at least on the Panasonics). When you tune to an unused channel, the screen goes black and a notice displays informing you to tune to a different channel (thanks, Panasonic). So much for that idea.

I ended-up searching the internet for photos of random static/snow. I found ~20 of them, re-sized them all to 16x9, stuck them on a memory stick and ran a looping slide show. I was honestly afraid to check the results for some time, but after 3+ days of endless looping, I decided to check the results. Much to my relief, the IR had significantly reduced, to the point where it was no longer visible while watching other content. Running through the colored break-in slides, I noticed it was still barely there on certain colors, but you had to know what to look for to see it. I decided to run the 'snow' slides for another couple of days, and now there is no trace of the IR.

This personal experience really makes me better understand the concerns / complaints of some. I've been an avid defender of plasma against the burn-in screamers, and while I still believe that permanent burn-in is extremely rare, I now think many of the claims by folks are simply cases of serious IR. Because of my own personal scare, I've done a little more reading. It seems that IR has taken a big step backwards with the new fast-decay phosphors being used today in order to improve 3D performance. Whether there is any basis of fact in that, I couldn't say. All I know is that my 3 other 2D Panasonic plasmas have NEVER exhibited anything like what happened on my GT30, and they were all just as heavily abused with game HUDs and static images.

So, for those of you who believe you may have burn-in, try doing something similar to what I did with snow/static images. I would imagine that running other content would eventually do the same thing, but I believe the high contrast black/white snow may actually work to speed-up the washing process. As I mentioned earlier, it wasn't until after ~120 hours of constant looping of images that the IR was completely gone, so this is not something that can be "fixed" over night.


Oh, and Minecraft is no longer allowed to be played on that TV!
In Minecraft 360 you can now adjust the opacity of the inventory squares, with the option of taking it off of the screen altogether. So I have it set at about 50%, I think, on my LCD screen. Its good as I'm no longer distracted by it, but when I need to focus on it I can
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:44 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveSimonH View Post
In Minecraft 360 you can now adjust the opacity of the inventory squares, with the option of taking it off of the screen altogether. So I have it set at about 50%, I think, on my LCD screen. Its good as I'm no longer distracted by it, but when I need to focus on it I can
Thanks for the tip. I wasn't aware of that, but I'll check it out tonight. I've limited my playing to the computer version only, but I really want to finish my Helm's Deep build before I hang it up for good.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:49 PM   #95
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Well my Samsung DLP is falling apart. The mirrors are becoming stuck slowly but surely. I dont feel like repairing it really.

I want to replace it with a Plasma, 50" as it is also 50". Now I read about the Break-in period, but here is what I cant find out anything about.

I just watch movies on this tv, heck I dont even subscribe to cable anymore. I dont care for 99% of the stuff on it, and I just wait for tv shows to release on blu ray so I watch them with greater fidelity.

Can I just watch movies (black bars and all) ONLY on Plasma. I probably wont mix up full screen content etc much at all really unless thats the way it is released.

Should I be concerned with IR/Burn-in issues?

thanks
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:38 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Caesu View Post
Well my Samsung DLP is falling apart. The mirrors are becoming stuck slowly but surely. I dont feel like repairing it really.

I want to replace it with a Plasma, 50" as it is also 50". Now I read about the Break-in period, but here is what I cant find out anything about.

I just watch movies on this tv, heck I dont even subscribe to cable anymore. I dont care for 99% of the stuff on it, and I just wait for tv shows to release on blu ray so I watch them with greater fidelity.

Can I just watch movies (black bars and all) ONLY on Plasma. I probably wont mix up full screen content etc much at all really unless thats the way it is released.

Should I be concerned with IR/Burn-in issues?
Personally, I wouldn't, at least during the break-in period (mine was well over 150 hours and closer to 200 before watching my first movie or playing any video games).

Here's my take on this: when you're watching material with an aspect ratio of 2.40::1, the phosphors aren't aging uniformly; the section where the movie is being displayed might be, but not the upper and lower horizontal areas, i.e. the black bars. Even if you enable burn-in protection features per the manufacturer's recommendations, there are no assurances that burn-in won't occur (some degree of IR is expected after watching a movie, even on sets that are broken in, but IR is temporary; what you don't want is burn-in).

Even if you avoid 4:3 material and you watched widescreen movies exclusively on your plasma, I can almost guarantee that burn-in will occur eventually, i.e. you will see two distinct horizontal lines on your display, not from the 1.78::1 material, but those with a 2.40::1 aspect ratio.
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:48 AM   #97
Caesu Caesu is offline
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Thanks, I take it from your advice then that plasma is made more for mixed viewing rather then anything exclusive, which is quite the bummer. Even after the break in period and all.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:24 AM   #98
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Plasma experiences vary. I've had 2 Samsung plasmas and didn't do anything special for the break-in period, aside from using side scrolling protection after watching anything that didn't take up the whole screen. I had no burn-in issues with either TV. But this doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful during the break-in period. If you don't watch cable stations, you have a lot less to worry about. Station logos or news tickers can cause burn-in during the break-in period.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:24 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesu View Post
Thanks, I take it from your advice then that plasma is made more for mixed viewing rather then anything exclusive, which is quite the bummer. Even after the break in period and all.
While I admit that I'm not a fan of LCD/LED displays, this might be one of those occasions where I would probably suggest purchasing one over a plasma, if you know that you'll be using it exclusively for movies. That's not to say that LCD/LED displays are immune from screen burn-in (as I've seen examples on both of these, as well as the old CRTs); it's just that these are more forgiving.

Even though my plasma is well past the break-in period and any IR (from video games or tickers from certain networks) tends to disappear after a few minutes, if I were to use it solely for movie viewing moving forward, my gut feeling tells me that it would only be a matter of time before burn-in sets in (due to uneven phosphor wear).
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:39 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrivatePixel View Post
While I admit that I'm not a fan of LCD/LED displays, this might be one of those occasions where I would probably suggest purchasing one over a plasma, if you know that you'll be using it exclusively for movies. That's not to say that LCD/LED displays are immune from screen burn-in (as I've seen examples on both of these, as well as the old CRTs); it's just that these are more forgiving.

Even though my plasma is well past the break-in period and any IR (from video games or tickers from certain networks) tends to disappear after a few minutes, if I were to use it solely for movie viewing moving forward, my gut feeling tells me that it would only be a matter of time before burn-in sets in (due to uneven phosphor wear).
I would agree if one were solely watching 2.35:1 material and nothing else, but I think there will be enough varying aspect ratio content that IR will not be a concern. If need be, throw on some full screen material every now and again or run the wipe routine after every movie.
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