Why do Oppo BD players cost more than the PS3?

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by tele1962

David nothing could be further from the truth as i have already said, yes there results are benchmark and the way it is and excellent they are to. That is why i never disagreed with them or said you had (check back through the thread) only Cevolution has said that i or we had disagreed with them, and who is convincing others on here that they will see a difference in BR picture quality when clearly they will not.

Clipping on the PS3 i have only seen when the colour space is set to RGB.

AND TO CEVOLUTION:

" Also, Oppo came into BD as a trusted "no-BS" brand by the AV crowd. My experience with them is the same; every issue I pointed out was fixed if the hardware allowed it. Some people don't have the time or the means to go through a bunch of players with test patterns to find out which ones work properly, Oppo can be trusted not to screw around with the picture so they'll get an instant sale on that count. Most people aren't aware that the PS3 doesn't either, some don't want a games console as a player because they feel it's out of place in an HT environment."

I said nothing of the sort, maybe you need to read what I have said throughtout this entire thread correctly, starting from my 1st post. Unlike you, I haven't been trying to convince anyone that there is or isn't PQ differences between the Oppo and PS3. I merely stated that tests were done last year by hometheaterhifi.com/the secrets BD player benchmark which shows there are blu-ray players on the market that perform incorrectly, and that the Oppo was the only player out of the ones they tested that was 100% accurate. I also went on to say that the ps3 was not included in this particular test but that they were planning to include it in another round of tests, and that I would like to see their data results on the ps3 before simply saying that the ps3 is also accurate like you were saying.

This discussion hasn't just been about the ps3, it's been about all blu-ray players in general since you implied that there is no difference in PQ with any blu-ray player not just the ps3, as per your post below

Originally Posted by tele1962

Despite what you are reading in some of the above comments (placebo effect) there is no difference in PQ between the PS3 and the OPPO, or your player and the OPPO.

Member 'smackrabbit' who was guy from 'the secrets BD player benchmark' that run the tests on those players, had this to say when another member said that all current bluray players with current technology produce the same exact PQ to the human eye as many tests have been done to prove this.

Originally Posted by smackrabbit

One of the reasons that we use dE 1994 in the results is that is based on what errors the human eye can see. Errors beyond the 1-1.5 range are visible to people, and so an error of 5+ is easily visible if you were comparing it directly to another player. The issue is that for most people, to compare two players you have to swap back-and-forth between inputs and discs and that makes it hard to compare. Having two identical displays, side by side, both calibrated and using these players would show the differences.

However, since 99% of people aren't used to a calibrated display, or a player that is putting out a 100% correct image, everything looks "really good" and there's no difference between them. We will have an addition to the article up soon, showing another real-world example between those two players hopefully.

For you to say that you haven't been disagreeing with the findings of hometheaterhifi.com is rubbish, especially when you have said such things as

Originally Posted by tele1962

You clearly know nothing about calibration or PQ in general and will not listen to the very people who are involved with this process. However i am inviting you to post your question Direct to David Mackenzie over on HDTVTest, as i am clearly getting no where with you.

that just there demonstrates that you were in fact disagreeing with them, because what you were responding to in that post was said by those at hometheaterhifi.com/the secrets BD player benchmark, not me. I find it funny that you have now changed your tune on the matter since David has made an appearance in this thread. It was wrong of you to bring David's name into this discussion speaking for him, implying that he felt the same, and to be honest if I was David I would be a bit upset with you about it, and by the way you have carried yourself in this thread, and would want to distance myself from you.

[tele1962]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

I said nothing of the sort, maybe you need to read what I have said throughtout this entire thread correctly, starting from my 1st post . Unlike you, I haven't been trying to convince anyone that there is or isn't PQ differences between the Oppo and PS3. I merely stated that tests were done last year by hometheaterhifi.com/the secrets BD player benchmark which shows there are blu-ray players on the market that perform incorrectly, and that the Oppo was the only player out of the ones they tested that was 100% accurate. I also went on to say that the ps3 was not included in this particular test but that they were planning to include it in another round of tests, and that I would like to see their data results on the ps3 before simply saying that the ps3 is also accurate like you were saying.

This discussion hasn't just been about the ps3, it's been about all blu-ray players in general since you implied that there is no difference in PQ with any blu-ray player not just the ps3, as per your post below



Member 'smackrabbit' who was guy from 'the secrets BD player benchmark' that run the tests on those players, had this to say when another member said that all current bluray players with current technology produce the same exact PQ to the human eye as many tests have been done to prove this.



For you to say that you haven't been disagreeing with the findings of hometheaterhifi.com is rubbish, especially when you have said such things as



that just there demonstrates that you were in fact disagreeing with them, because what you were responding to in that post was said by those at hometheaterhifi.com/the secrets BD player benchmark, not me. It was wrong of you to bring David's name into this discussion speaking for him, implying that he felt the same, and to be honest if I was David I would be a bit upset with you about it, and by the way you have carried yourself in this thread, and would want to distance myself from you.

You sir are now the one trolling and twisting my words, David agreed with me and said it. Also i if these players are performing correctly you will see no difference as has been said.
Your keep trying to point me in the direction of the excellent tests that were performed...........and i will say again i never not once criticised them or brought them into it you did. I simply said " YOU" had no clue about PQ or Calibration no one else.

I asked David if he wanted to say something and he did, if he did not want to he wouldn't simple as that really.

Be happy with your OPPO and other players and if you want any further advice on anything AV you know where we are.
Why don't you move on from this, and lets all be friends.

PS
If it will make you happy i will say not all players are the same i was wrong........ but the ones we have viewed are.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by tele1962

You sir are now the one trolling and twisting my words, David agreed with me and said it. Also i if these players are performing correctly you will see no difference as has been said.
Your keep trying to point me in the direction of the excellent tests that were performed...........and i will say again i never not once criticised them or brought them into it you did. I simply said " YOU" had no clue about PQ or Calibration no one else.

I asked David if he wanted to say something and he did, if he did not want to he wouldn't simple as that really.

Be happy with your OPPO and other players and if you want any further advice on anything AV you know where we are.
Why don't you move on from this, and lets all be friends.

PS
If it will make you happy i will say not all players are the same i was wrong........ but the ones we have viewed are.

Well, let it be known that David did say that the Oppo is better than the PS3 with 1080i BD's (there are a few out there) - other than that, and without further helpful info - I will be forced to close this thread before it gets very ugly.

To all on this thread,

Prerich - moderator

[tele1962]

Originally Posted by prerich

Well, let it be known that David did say that the Oppo is better than the PS3 with 1080i BD's (there are a few out there) - other than that, and without further helpful info - I will be forced to close this thread before it gets very ugly.

To all on this thread,

Prerich - moderator

Advice taken and apologies if things got heated.

If Cevolution is willing will you please remove all our posts as it was stupid to get into silly arguments over what is our hobby.

And to Cevolution sorry mate, your argument was valid and sound.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by tele1962

You sir are now the one trolling and twisting my words, David agreed with me and said it. Also i if these players are performing correctly you will see no difference as has been said.
Your keep trying to point me in the direction of the excellent tests that were performed...........and i will say again i never not once criticised them or brought them into it you did. I simply said " YOU" had no clue about PQ or Calibration no one else.

I asked David if he wanted to say something and he did, if he did not want to he wouldn't simple as that really.

Be happy with your OPPO and other players and if you want any further advice on anything AV you know where we are.
Why don't you move on from this, and lets all be friends.

Twisting your words? I've done no such thing, as a matter of fact on the contrary, as I feel you have twisted my words and have taken what I have said the wrong way. All our posts are there for everyone to see, so members are free to make up their own minds about who has twisted who's words. Personally I think you have confused what I have been saying with some other comments you have read by other members in this thread, because I did not state any facts about the ps3. In regards to the ps3, all I said was that I'm interested in seeing the results from 'hometheaterhifi.com before coming to the conclusion that the ps3 produces a 100% accurate signal like the Oppo did when it was tested, and that it's possible that the ps3 may not be accurate based on other Sony players that were proven not to be in those tests conducted by 'the secrets BD player benchmark, nothing more. Me saying that in no way implies that there is or isn't a difference between the ps3 and Oppo. Though that's how you took it, and got up on your high horse trying discredit scentific tests that haven't even been conducted by hometheaterhifi.com on the ps3 yet. David didn't agree with you at all, at least about what I have been getting at all long anyway.

Like I said since you were trying to claim that all blu-ray players are the same, this discussion become about blu-ray players in general, not just the ps3. The data from the tests by 'hometheaterhifi.com proves the fact that there can be inconsistanies between blu-ray players, and is all I was trying to get you to acknowledge, however you refused to until after David praised their expertise and didn't disagree with their findings. Like member 'smackrabbit' from hometheaterhifi.com said in the other thread, there are instances with players where you can see differences if one player is not to specs and another is. Whether you agree or not or feel the difference would be that small where you believe it's insignificant matters not, your opinion is irrelevant, because it might matter to someone else. I'm sure there are plenty who would be interested in knowing if the blu-ray player they are considering purchasing performs correctly or not. The bottom line is, by you telling members that all blu-ray players are equal is false, and you are withholding information from them based on your opinions, which is taking away their right to be able to choose for themselves.

Look I'm over this issue, I don't want to argue about it, I never did. I just felt you were being dismissive of other facts which exist, and were saying that I was wrong about it when I wasn't.

[tele1962]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

Twisting your words? I've done no such thing, as a matter of fact on the contaray, as I feel you have twisted my words and have taken what I have said the wrong way. All our posts are there for everyone to see, so members are free to make up their own minds about who has twisted who's words. Personally I think you have confused what I have been saying with some other comments you have read by other members in this thread, because I did not state any facts about the ps3. In regards to the ps3, all I said was that I'm interested in seeing the results from 'hometheaterhifi.com before coming to the conclusion that the ps3 produces a 100% accurate signal like the Oppo did when it was tested, and that it's possible that the ps3 may not be accurate based on other Sony players that were proven not to be in those tests conducted by 'the secrets BD player benchmark, nothing more. Me saying that in no way implies that there is or isn't a difference between the ps3 and Oppo. Though that's how you took it, and got up on your high horse trying discredit scentific tests that haven't even been conducted by hometheaterhifi.com on the ps3 yet. David didn't agree with you at all, at least about what I have been getting at all long anyway.

Like I said since you were trying to claim that all blu-ray players are the same, this discussion become about blu-ray players in general, not just the ps3. The data from the tests by 'hometheaterhifi.com proves the fact that there can be inconsistanies between blu-ray players, and is all I was trying to get you to acknowledge, however you refused to until after David praised their expertise and didn't disagree with their findings. Like member 'smackrabbit' from hometheaterhifi.com said in the other thread, there are instances with players that you can see a differences if one player is not to specs and another is. Whether you agree or not or feel the difference would be that small where you believe it's insignificant matters not, your opinion is irrelevant, because it might matter to someone else. I'm sure there are plenty who would be interested in knowing if the blu-ray player they are considering purchasing performs correctly or not. The bottom line is, by you telling members that all blu-ray players are equal is false, and you are withholding information from them based on your opinions, which is taking away their right to be able to choose for themselves.

Look I'm over this issue, I don't want to argue about it, I never did. I just felt you were being dismissive of other facts which exist, and were saying that I was wrong about it when I wasn't.

Ahem post above this one.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by tele1962

Advice taken and apologies if things got heated.

If Cevolution is willing will you please remove all our posts as it was stupid to get into silly arguments over what is our hobby.

And to Cevolution sorry mate, your argument was valid and sound.

Originally Posted by tele1962

Ahem post above this one.

[MrHT]

I hear a lot of people praise Oppo's customer service. I hope when people say their customer service is good, I hope it's not "good" like Samsung's. About 4 years ago, I bought a Samsung 20" tube TV. After a few months, I noticed some flickering issue. I called Samsung and asked them for help. The person I spoke with said they will be very happy to help. Sounds good, right? Here's the catch.... since my TV is less than 27", I must drive over to their service center and drop it off. Then I need to wait 2-3 weeks for it to get repaired. Then, after waiting 2-3 weeks and not having a TV set, I have to drive back and pick up the set. Now, I'm so glad Samsung was willing to help, but to lug that tube TV back and forth.... now isn't that a bit of a burden on me, especially since the TV had some kind of defect to begin with that was Samsung's fault and not mine??? I sure hope Oppo isn't like that. I've never experienced their customer service, but I just hope it's going to be better than Samsung's.

[pentatonic]

I've never dealt with a more professional company before. Emails get answered in usually a few hours and their products are really top of the line in build quality.

[MrHT]

Originally Posted by pentatonic

I've never dealt with a more professional company before. Emails get answered in usually a few hours and their products are really top of the line in build quality.

I'm glad to hear that. If/when my Sony Blu-ray player dies, I would like to try to get an Oppo. Even if I have to spend $500, as long as it's worth it, then it's cool. I like my Sony player, but it's just too barebones. It works well and is rock solid in performance, but it would be nice to have more such as.... faster loading time, no layer change pause on DVDs, better DVD upconversion, DivX playback and PAL to NTSC conversion.

[rubystone356]

Originally Posted by MrHT

I hear a lot of people praise Oppo's customer service. I hope when people say their customer service is good, I hope it's not "good" like Samsung's. About 4 years ago, I bought a Samsung 20" tube TV. After a few months, I noticed some flickering issue. I called Samsung and asked them for help. The person I spoke with said they will be very happy to help. Sounds good, right? Here's the catch.... since my TV is less than 27", I must drive over to their service center and drop it off. Then I need to wait 2-3 weeks for it to get repaired. Then, after waiting 2-3 weeks and not having a TV set, I have to drive back and pick up the set. Now, I'm so glad Samsung was willing to help, but to lug that tube TV back and forth.... now isn't that a bit of a burden on me, especially since the TV had some kind of defect to begin with that was Samsung's fault and not mine??? I sure hope Oppo isn't like that. I've never experienced their customer service, but I just hope it's going to be better than Samsung's.

nothing like that. if anything you will be in shock on well do they do help. much better for you to experience it yourself then you tell. it would ruin the surprise.

Jacob

[jrsl76]

I just bought a gently used Oppo BDP-83 off of someone on Videogon. After 3 years, my Momitsu BDP-899 seems to have given up the ghost. It started constantly reloading the welcome menu. I have no idea if that could be fixed, but ended up buying the Oppo, my first. I would have preferred to buy the BDP-93 so I could play the more recent .mkv files and for the Netflix streaming feature, but I don't really need the 3D and I got this for $275 shipped vs. the $600 the region free 93 would have cost me (albeit new).

Can't wait to check it out!

[lDlisturb3d]

Oppo's cost more because they have more options. When it comes to regular blu ray playback the PS3 and Oppo are nearly idential, the PS3 is faster and they way it updates is more user friendly. If you looking for a REFERENCE player than the OPPO. It has a very good DAC converter (Digital to Analog for Audio) it can read a host of CD's basically if you can put it on a disc the OPPO can read it. They also have analog outs for audio purposes. The DVD up conversion is unreal! In addition they make very good products, quality control is big! Now if you need all the above go with the oppo, but if you're buying it just because save you money and get a bang for you buck with the ps3. I own both and i wouldn't steer you wrong.

[jmy2469]

I plan to buy the Oppo BDP 103 when it is available. I have a PS3 and it has has been good. Just started to getting into high end home theater gear, and want to have a stand alone blu-ray player. PS3 is ok for blu-ray,but once to start getting serious about the gear that you have, PS3 is not what you want. Oppo is one of the top manufacturers of blu-ray players, just read the reviews. Buy the Oppo, you wont be disappointed.

[lDlisturb3d]

Originally Posted by jmy2469

i plan to buy the oppo bdp 103 when it is available. I have a ps3 and it has has been good. Just started to getting into high end home theater gear, and want to have a stand alone blu-ray player. Ps3 is ok for blu-ray,but once to start getting serious about the gear that you have, ps3 is not what you want. Oppo is one of the top manufacturers of blu-ray players, just read the reviews. Buy the oppo, you wont be disappointed.

+1