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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Receivers

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Old 11-08-2012, 05:28 PM   #1
mainman mainman is offline
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Default Question about HDMI 1.4 and 4k resolutions

I am planning on upgrading my receiver, and I have a question.

If a receiver has HDMI 1.4, will this receiver have 4k pass through?

The receiver in question is the Pioneer SC-2022-K:
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/4...22-K/page.html

Apparently this receiver uses HDMI 1.4, but it doesn't say anything about 4k pass through. The more expensive models on the Pioneer site say they got 4k pass through, but it doesn't say it on this one.

From my understanding HDMI 1.4 supports 4k right? Is it safe to assume that an HDMI 1.4 receiver will be able to pass through 4k resolutions?

I am looking to buy a new receiver and I want it to be as future proof as possible, so I don't have to upgrade my receiver too often.

Thanks for you times.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:49 PM   #2
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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Only some A/V receivers offer 4K upscaling and pass through up to 30fps when using HDMI 1.4x. In 2012 Pioneer started offering some A/V receivers in the USA like the SC-68 that will support 4K at 24fps, 25fps, and 30fps. In theory HDMI 1.5 might be coming out in the futue that might support 4K at 50fps and 60fps (Hz). 99% of 4K movies in theory will be 24fps.

I did not see 4K pass through listed as a option in the specs for the Pioneer receiver you are looking at. Pioneer, Onkyo, and others clearly mention if 4K (quad HD) is offered in the specs when that feature is included.

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 11-08-2012 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:11 PM   #3
pentatonic pentatonic is offline
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From the model number given, you seem to be in the UK. A receiver around the same price point to consider that is as future proof as possible would be the Onkyo TXNR 818. It's also getting excellent reviews by pretty much everyone and seems the goto receiver in that price range for now.

4K upscaling, passthrough, great video processing, enough power for a small to medium room. I would look into it personally.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:28 PM   #4
mainman mainman is offline
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Personally I am not looking for upscale to 4k. I just want it to pass through.

I looked into Onkyo X-NR818. If I would buy an Onkyo I think I would go with the X-NR717. It's a bit cheaper and it has everything I am looking for including the 4k pass-through.

But the thing about these Onkyo's is the wattage when in use. NR717 is 640 watt and NR818 is 740. The Pioneer in the first post is only 290 watt and has about the same specs per channel, but not sure if it has the 4k pass through.

I doubt I will go with the Onkyo's because of the wattage. I prefer to pay a bit more and go lower wattage. I'm weird like that.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:00 PM   #5
pentatonic pentatonic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainman View Post
Personally I am not looking for upscale to 4k. I just want it to pass through.

I looked into Onkyo X-NR818. If I would buy an Onkyo I think I would go with the X-NR717. It's a bit cheaper and it has everything I am looking for including the 4k pass-through.

But the thing about these Onkyo's is the wattage when in use. NR717 is 640 watt and NR818 is 740. The Pioneer in the first post is only 290 watt and has about the same specs per channel, but not sure if it has the 4k pass through.

I doubt I will go with the Onkyo's because of the wattage. I prefer to pay a bit more and go lower wattage. I'm weird like that.
Usually the more power used equates to more real world power to the amp section. Not in all cases, but still. And unless you're using it 24/7, it shouldn't really show on your electric bill.

And the Pio doesn't have 4k passthrough. You would need to go higher up. And having 4K upscale would just be a bonus.

The best thing would be to go and audition receivers in your price range with your needs.
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:24 PM   #6
mainman mainman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentatonic View Post
Usually the more power used equates to more real world power to the amp section. Not in all cases, but still. And unless you're using it 24/7, it shouldn't really show on your electric bill.

And the Pio doesn't have 4k passthrough. You would need to go higher up. And having 4K upscale would just be a bonus.

The best thing would be to go and audition receivers in your price range with your needs.
I'm not really worried about the price. I'll just wait and save more money and go for a better model. What I'm more worried about is future proofing.

What I wonder is: In post number 2, it said that 4k passthrough supports only 24, 25 and 30 fps. I'm sure 4k is gonna be utilizing 3d as well (and I assume it requires more fps), so is this 4k feature in it's current form even worth it?

I think the best option is to have a player that has 2 HDMI outs, 1 for tv and 1 for audio going to your receiver. Because it seems that receivers are kinda acting like bottlenecks when it comes to HDMI connectivity.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:57 PM   #7
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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For example the Sony and OPPO Blu-ray players that upscale to QUAD HD (4K) will drop every other frame if the source material is 60Hz or 50Hz. That is why 30Hz and 25Hz is supported along with 24Hz with HDMI 1.4. HDMI 1.5 in theory might support 4K (Quad HD) at 50Hz or 60Hz. In the movie theaters currently there is no native 4K 3-D movies and they are all currently 2K at 3-D. However that will be changing when IMAX and other movie theaters are upgraded to 4K projectors for 3-D. So in the future 3-D at 4K most likely will become a reality in the commercial movie theaters. Hopefully HDMI 1.5 will also support frame packed 3-D 4K at 24fps and higher so that consumers will be able to view movies in 3-D at 4K (QUAD HD).

If you are in no hurry to upgrade you might want to wait a few years for the possibility of HDMI 1.5 displays, A/V receivers, and Blu-ray players that support higher frame rates.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
For example the Sony and OPPO Blu-ray players that upscale to QUAD HD (4K) will drop every other frame if the source material is 60Hz or 50Hz. That is why 30Hz and 25Hz is supported along with 24Hz with HDMI 1.4. HDMI 1.5 in theory might support 4K (Quad HD) at 50Hz or 60Hz. In the movie theaters currently there is no native 4K 3-D movies and they are all currently 2K at 3-D. However that will be changing when IMAX and other movie theaters are upgraded to 4K projectors for 3-D. So in the future 3-D at 4K most likely will become a reality in the commercial movie theaters. Hopefully HDMI 1.5 will also support frame packed 3-D 4K at 24fps and higher so that consumers will be able to view movies in 3-D at 4K (QUAD HD).

If you are in no hurry to upgrade you might want to wait a few years for the possibility of HDMI 1.5 displays, A/V receivers, and Blu-ray players that support higher frame rates.
Yes but I guess that could easily be resolved by a dual hdmi player, like it is now for 1.4. We are not sure, but unless I hear of anything before a few years with players with dual a possibility, it might take a while to happen. I guess it all comes down to how much you want to improve now and how long your willing to wait for another upgrade.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:55 PM   #9
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentatonic View Post
Yes but I guess that could easily be resolved by a dual hdmi player, like it is now for 1.4. We are not sure, but unless I hear of anything before a few years with players with dual a possibility, it might take a while to happen. I guess it all comes down to how much you want to improve now and how long your willing to wait for another upgrade.
Dual HDMI 1.4a Blu-ray players that upscale to QUAD HD still limit 3-D to 1080P quality since HDMI 1.4a does not support 3-D at 4K (quad HD) to the display but only 2-D. Also dual HDMI 1.4a still only sends up to 30fps to a 4K (quad HD).

Yes in theory if one purchases a new HDMI 1.4a A/V receiver that supports 2-D QUAD HD up to 30fps then when and if HDMI 1.5 Blu-ray players come out that upscale to QUAD HD at 4K then one can run HDMI 1.5 output number one to the HDMI 1.5 QUAD HD display at 60Hz and HDMI 1.5 number two to the older HDMI 1.4a A/V receiver for audio. Its only a theory that HDMI 1.5 will support 50Hz and 60Hz at 4K quality, no official announcements yet.

Its just nice to use the A/V receiver as a HDMI video switcher. If one needs a new A/V receiver now then I would recommend getting one with QUAD HD (4K) passthrough which handles 2-D QUAD HD up to 30fps.

For the average consumer that already has modern 1080P equipment it would be better to wait until na´ve 4K material becomes a reality (most likely around 2016 a quad HD optical disc format will be released).

Some people upgrade every year while other people wait around 10 years to upgrade. For example I know a family member that has a 2011 Pioneer SC-57 A/V receiver that only supports 1080P and they have no plans to upgrade to the 2012 Pioneer SC-68 with QUAD HD passtrough since they plan on using their 1080P Pioneer PRO-141FD display for several more years. Now when and if they decided to upgrade to a QUAD HD or 4K display around the year 2016 then they will upgrade their A/V receiver and Blu-ray player at the same time so everything works together as a HDMI video switching.

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 11-11-2012 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:05 AM   #10
pentatonic pentatonic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
Dual HDMI 1.4a Blu-ray players that upscale to QUAD HD still limit 3-D to 1080P quality since HDMI 1.4a does not support 3-D at 4K (quad HD) to the display but only 2-D. Also dual HDMI 1.4a still only sends up to 30fps to a 4K (quad HD).

Yes in theory if one purchases a new HDMI 1.4a A/V receiver that supports 2-D QUAD HD up to 30fps then when and if HDMI 1.5 Blu-ray players come out that upscale to QUAD HD at 4K then one can run HDMI 1.5 output number one to the HDMI 1.5 QUAD HD display at 60Hz and HDMI 1.5 number two to the older HDMI 1.4a A/V receiver for audio. Its only a theory that HDMI 1.5 will support 50Hz and 60Hz at 4K quality, no official announcements yet.

Its just nice to use the A/V receiver as a HDMI video switcher. If one needs a new A/V receiver now then I would recommend getting one with QUAD HD (4K) passthrough which handles 2-D QUAD HD up to 30fps.

For the average consumer that already has modern 1080P equipment it would be better to wait until na´ve 4K material becomes a reality (most likely around 2016 a quad HD optical disc format will be released).

Some people upgrade every year while other people wait around 10 years to upgrade. For example I know a family member that has a 2011 Pioneer SC-57 A/V receiver that only supports 1080P and they have no plans to upgrade to the 2012 Pioneer SC-68 with QUAD HD passtrough since they plan on using their 1080P Pioneer PRO-141FD display for several more years. Now when and if they decided to upgrade to a QUAD HD or 4K display around the year 2016 then they will upgrade their A/V receiver and Blu-ray player at the same time so everything works together as a HDMI video switching.
I agree, if someone has no real need to upgrade, waiting at least a year and wait on possibilities. But if one buys an avr with 4K upscale and passthrough, I think someone could do a few good years before really needing to upgrade.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:10 PM   #11
Gally Gally is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
Dual HDMI 1.4a Blu-ray players that upscale to QUAD HD still limit 3-D to 1080P quality since HDMI 1.4a does not support 3-D at 4K (quad HD) to the display but only 2-D. Also dual HDMI 1.4a still only sends up to 30fps to a 4K (quad HD).

Yes in theory if one purchases a new HDMI 1.4a A/V receiver that supports 2-D QUAD HD up to 30fps then when and if HDMI 1.5 Blu-ray players come out that upscale to QUAD HD at 4K then one can run HDMI 1.5 output number one to the HDMI 1.5 QUAD HD display at 60Hz and HDMI 1.5 number two to the older HDMI 1.4a A/V receiver for audio. Its only a theory that HDMI 1.5 will support 50Hz and 60Hz at 4K quality, no official announcements yet.

Its just nice to use the A/V receiver as a HDMI video switcher. If one needs a new A/V receiver now then I would recommend getting one with QUAD HD (4K) passthrough which handles 2-D QUAD HD up to 30fps.

For the average consumer that already has modern 1080P equipment it would be better to wait until na´ve 4K material becomes a reality (most likely around 2016 a quad HD optical disc format will be released).

Some people upgrade every year while other people wait around 10 years to upgrade. For example I know a family member that has a 2011 Pioneer SC-57 A/V receiver that only supports 1080P and they have no plans to upgrade to the 2012 Pioneer SC-68 with QUAD HD passtrough since they plan on using their 1080P Pioneer PRO-141FD display for several more years. Now when and if they decided to upgrade to a QUAD HD or 4K display around the year 2016 then they will upgrade their A/V receiver and Blu-ray player at the same time so everything works together as a HDMI video switching.
There will probably be no HDMI 1.5. While it isn't anywhere near release yet, the HDMI 2.0 standard has been agreed upon, and the specificaiton will likely be released by the end of the year. It will, in all likelihood, support 4k at 60hz.

In the meantime, some of the 4k monitors and players have a work around that uses 2 HDMI cables to achieve 4k@60hz.
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