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Old 11-17-2012, 01:52 AM   #41
Retroj23 Retroj23 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the sordid sentinel View Post
IR does bug me a bit on my Panny plasma. Was watching Dark City a few nights ago and it was quite bothersome. It fades away, but high contrast movies like that can be tricky. Still, plasma offers the best, most film like picture quality available IMO. Many times my set still completely blows me away.
+1
IR unfortunately is something that comes with owning a plasma but I would rather deal with this, and still have an amazing picture, than get an LED/LCD tv. IMHO plasmas are superior in everyway to LEDs.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:41 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post
Have you tried running the tv on static for a few hours? I read that can remove burn in. Full screen static with the volume down.
I wish I could, but with digital tuners and digital transmissions, I cannot tune to an "empty" channel anymore that simply displays static. Any idea how?
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:25 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by JustThatPenguin View Post
After reading this, I am starting to get a little scared about my recent panasonic st50 purchase. It will arrive Wednesday. Looks like I'll ignore what I read on Cnet and actually go through a "break in" period. I agree with the one of the above posts though, If this is such an issue why doesn't panasonic just break in the TVs before shipping them out?
I'm really hoping to get this TV by Christmas! Hope you have a great experience and I'll be watching this thread to see how well everything goes with you.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:33 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by My_Two_Cents View Post
I wish I could, but with digital tuners and digital transmissions, I cannot tune to an "empty" channel anymore that simply displays static. Any idea how?
hmmm not sure, what about if you unplug the cable box and HDMI wires and turned on the tv? Only thing that should be plugged in is t he tv's power wire to the wall outlet.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:03 PM   #45
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Small update:

Panasonic sent out a field representative to check out my TV. He agreed that there was burn-in from what looked to be the subtitles. Surprisingly, he also found some burn-in that I hadn't noticed that was caused by the TV's menu. We both thought that was fairly odd when you consider how little time the TV's menu is displayed. He asked for a receipt of purchase and said he'll get back to me. Hopefully my next update will be about a resolution to my problem.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:15 PM   #46
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New update (resolution!):

Panasonic has informed me that they will replace the television. Hopefully the new set won't have this issue. I think maybe I'll break it in for 200 hours this time and then use subtitles to see if that helps. I also asked what I could do if the issue arises with the replacement TV and they said in that case they'll just issue a refund. Ultimately, I'm pleased with how the situation worked out despite the hoops I had to jump through and the headache it caused.

Having said that, the display really is absolutely gorgeous, but at this time I really couldn't recommend it to anyone that's hard of hearing or just likes to have subtitles. That recommendation may change if it turns out that the replacement display doesn't exhibit this problem. If that's the case then I may just have purchased a bum unit originally.

I'll post further updates whether or not the problem manifests itself again.

Thanks again for all the advice and support,
Robert
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:30 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canvas of Flesh View Post
New update (resolution!):

Panasonic has informed me that they will replace the television. Hopefully the new set won't have this issue. I think maybe I'll break it in for 200 hours this time and then use subtitles to see if that helps. I also asked what I could do if the issue arises with the replacement TV and they said in that case they'll just issue a refund. Ultimately, I'm pleased with how the situation worked out despite the hoops I had to jump through and the headache it caused.

Having said that, the display really is absolutely gorgeous, but at this time I really couldn't recommend it to anyone that's hard of hearing or just likes to have subtitles. That recommendation may change if it turns out that the replacement display doesn't exhibit this problem. If that's the case then I may just have purchased a bum unit originally.

I'll post further updates whether or not the problem manifests itself again.

Thanks again for all the advice and support,
Robert
That is good to hear. I'm glad it worked out for the best. Keep us posted. Thanks for the update.
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:40 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Steelmaker View Post

Now some will say "well all this is inherent to the technology." Well to that I say if the threat of IR and burn in cannot be eliminated maybe this technology should not be made available to the consumer.
I can say the same thing about LCD TV's with their dreaded SOE (Soap Opera Effect or handy cam / camcorder look). Plasma has the best picture, hands down. Sure, we have to be careful for the first 2-300 hours, but you will be rewarded, knowing you will be enjoying the best cinematic experience from any current video technology available today.
FWIW, none of the 4 technology's (LCD/DLP/Projection/Plasma) are perfect.

Canvas of Flesh
Congrats on getting your TV replaced. For the first 200hr's, I would do these things...

Brightness below 50%
Contrast below 50%
If you have THX mode, don't use it!
Keep static images off your screen (station logo's)
run the anti image retention feature frequently.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:59 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula72 View Post
I can say the same thing about LCD TV's with their dreaded SOE (Soap Opera Effect or handy cam / camcorder look). Plasma has the best picture, hands down. Sure, we have to be careful for the first 2-300 hours, but you will be rewarded, knowing you will be enjoying the best cinematic experience from any current video technology available today.
FWIW, none of the 4 technology's (LCD/DLP/Projection/Plasma) are perfect.

Canvas of Flesh
Congrats on getting your TV replaced. For the first 200hr's, I would do these things...

Brightness below 50%
Contrast below 50%
If you have THX mode, don't use it!
Keep static images off your screen (station logo's)
run the anti image retention feature frequently.
The soap opera effect is a feature that can be turned off on my LCD. I'll also add that picture uniformity and flashlighting are a big problem with LCD. Plasma is still the best choice for a videophile grade picture.
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:23 AM   #50
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Well I got my GT50 back in December and I have run into the same issue. I have a burnt in image from playing Battlefield 3. The HUD is a static image but is constantly changing depending how often you die. While playing the game, I had the TV on Game mode, without realizing that the setting forces the Pixel Orbiter off. After only a few hours of playing, the image has stuck to the screen. It's not just image retention because I've played days worth of revolving images and static to no avail. I did buy the Black Tie protection from Best Buy and they claim that they cover burn-in so we'll see what they say. If they give me push back, they lose a customer and I'll try Panasonic directly.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:09 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by SlmShdy1 View Post
Well I got my GT50 back in December and I have run into the same issue. I have a burnt in image from playing Battlefield 3. The HUD is a static image but is constantly changing depending how often you die. While playing the game, I had the TV on Game mode, without realizing that the setting forces the Pixel Orbiter off. After only a few hours of playing, the image has stuck to the screen. It's not just image retention because I've played days worth of revolving images and static to no avail. I did buy the Black Tie protection from Best Buy and they claim that they cover burn-in so we'll see what they say. If they give me push back, they lose a customer and I'll try Panasonic directly.
persistent image retention can take up to a month to get rid of
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:25 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlmShdy1 View Post
Well I got my GT50 back in December and I have run into the same issue. I have a burnt in image from playing Battlefield 3. The HUD is a static image but is constantly changing depending how often you die. While playing the game, I had the TV on Game mode, without realizing that the setting forces the Pixel Orbiter off. After only a few hours of playing, the image has stuck to the screen. It's not just image retention because I've played days worth of revolving images and static to no avail. I did buy the Black Tie protection from Best Buy and they claim that they cover burn-in so we'll see what they say. If they give me push back, they lose a customer and I'll try Panasonic directly.
There is a member who posted plasmas were superior to LCD/LEDs in every way. The reality is, not when it comes to image retention. It is the one area LCD's have the advantage. Simply put, static imagery and plasmas are a risky combination. What plasma owners want is videophile grade picture quality. What we sacrifice is the ability to enjoy worry-free static content. As been said, it can take weeks or months for some IR to go away. Since you bought the service plan they should replace it with no problem.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:55 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Irrob View Post
There is a member who posted plasmas were superior to LCD/LEDs in every way. The reality is, not when it comes to image retention. It is the one area LCD's have the advantage. Simply put, static imagery and plasmas are a risky combination. What plasma owners want is videophile grade picture quality. What we sacrifice is the ability to enjoy worry-free static content. As been said, it can take weeks or months for some IR to go away. Since you bought the service plan they should replace it with no problem.
Yep. They are superior in PQ--and that's probably what that member meant.

Unfortunately, for those like me who watch a TON of things with static images (ESPN and games are my two biggest uses of my TVs) IR is a major annoyance. I also seem to have ears that are really tuned into the plasma buzz as that's drove me nuts the two times I've bought (and ended up returning) plasma TVs, and I hear it at friend's places on their plasmas too.

So I chose to give up the PQ--which I honestly really only noticed/appreciated on Blurays, which are just a few hours a week of my viewing--to not have to worry about IR or learn to live with the buzz.

But everyone's different. My static image viewing is a lot heavier than most people's (especially on this site where most members are primarily movie buffs watching Blurays everyday) and I just have bad luck with being sensitive to hearing buzzing TVs, appliances etc. That combined with not being much of a videophile (never paid more than $1k for a TV, will never pay for calibration etc.) make LCD/LED a better fit for me.
For a hardcore videophile, someone who doesn't watch much with static images etc., then plasma is the way to go as you can't beat the picture, and it's cheaper than good LED/LCDs as well.

So people just have to weigh for themselves how much they value the PQ vs. how their usages fair in generating stubborn IR, whether they hear buzz etc. and decide what type of TV is best for them. At the end of the day, that's all that matters.



To SlmShdy1, pixel orbiter is pretty useless anyway. It just shifts things around a few pixels so you just end up with smudgy IR from HUDs, logos, etc. rather than distinct ones as the image is just getting slightly shifted. Thus the static images are still in the same general spot all the time.

Last edited by dmaul1114; 02-21-2013 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:48 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by dmaul1114 View Post
Yep. They are superior in PQ--and that's probably what that member meant.

Unfortunately, for those like me who watch a TON of things with static images (ESPN and games are my two biggest uses of my TVs) IR is a major annoyance.
If you were fully aware of this, then you shouldn't have bought a plasma in the first place. Actually, you can't blame nobody but yourself, because you already knew about the technology of plasmas HDTVs. That's like me swimming in a sea of sharks knowingly, I'm subjected to get severely bit, or killed. For an avid gamer, you should have bought an LCD, instead of a plasma.

Last edited by slimdude; 02-21-2013 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:51 PM   #55
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To be honest i have not heard of a single home use plasma that has had permanent burn in, in recent times. Be patient, it will disappear.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:55 PM   #56
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To be honest i have not heard of a single home use plasma that has had permanent burn in, in recent times. Be patient, it will disappear.
For the past few years, plasmas have an anti image retention feature, to help eliminate permanent burn in.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:41 PM   #57
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If you were fully aware of this, then you shouldn't have bought a plasma in the first place. Actually, you can't blame nobody but yourself, because you already knew about the technology of plasmas HDTVs. That's like me swimming in a sea of sharks knowingly, I'm subjected to get severely bit, or killed. For an avid gamer, you should have bought an LCD, instead of a plasma.
For sure. I just got suckered into trying plasma again for two reasons (both still faults of my own):

1. Price. Couldn't find a decent 55-60" 3D LED under $1k when I started looking in December so I got impatient and took a chance on the plasma.

2. Posts on AVS and other places saying IR/Burn-in wasn't much of an issue with plasma (or buzzing which had annoyed me the last time I tried plasma).

Again, both my fault. Impatience of the first, and naivety of not realizing that places like AVS are loaded with people who are fanboys for the various display types (some of whom are probably tv manufacture shills promoting their products) who deflect criticism/flaws and try to get everyone to buy their display type of choice regardless of their usage. And this seems extra true on the plasma side as people are understandably worried about them becoming more and more of niche/decline product with LED sales way up, and plasma sales declining over the past several years--causing Pioneer to get out of the game all together, and now Panny has dropped some of their lower end lines and closed one of their plants etc.

So lessen learned. I ended up getting a 55" 3D LED set (Panny ET5 series) for $899 after I sent the UT50 plasma back--which was only $10 more than I had paid for the plasma and two pairs of active 3D glasses. So patience pays off.

And I'll never bother with forums when deciding what TV to buy in the future. I'm not a videophile and those types just drive me nuts with the bias, nitpicking and obsessing PQ stuff that I frankly don't give a damn about. I find things like the user reviews on Amazon more useful than videophile opinions that are largely irrelevant to someone like me who doesn't care much and is just buying low end models from decent brands anyway. All I care about checking on is making sure a particular model isn't a lemon. I can buy pretty much any lower end TV from a decent brand (Sony, Panny, Samsung etc.) and be perfectly fine with the PQ as I'm not that picky.

But again, absolutely no one to blame but myself. At least I was smart enough to order from Amazon where I knew I could return with no cost or hassles if I wasn't happy. Just had them drop off the LED and take the plasma back all at once, no return shipping fees or restocking fees etc. So it wasn't that big of a deal, and at least I got to confirm that plasma definitely isn't for me and my uses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tele1962 View Post
To be honest i have not heard of a single home use plasma that has had permanent burn in, in recent times. Be patient, it will disappear.
Yeah, it's very rare to get burn in. But I still find temporary IR very annoying. Especially when it's stubborn and taking days to go away. Drives me nuts seeing game huds over a basketball court or hockey ice or other light scenes where such IR really stands out.

But again, my usages are just not well suited to plasma. The average person on this site that's mostly watching Blurays and/or a wide variety of channels will never have any major IR issues. But if you're more like me and watch hours and hours of the same channel like ESPN, play tons of the same game etc., don't let the fanboys or manufacturer shills convince you that plasma is for you as it is not well suited to those kind of usages. At the least, if you have those usages and want to try plasma, buy from somewhere with an easy (and free) return/exchange policy.

Last edited by dmaul1114; 02-21-2013 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:37 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by dmaul1114 View Post
For sure. I just got suckered into trying plasma again for two reasons (both still faults of my own):

1. Price. Couldn't find a decent 55-60" 3D LED under $1k when I started looking in December so I got impatient and took a chance on the plasma.

2. Posts on AVS and other places saying IR/Burn-in wasn't much of an issue with plasma (or buzzing which had annoyed me the last time I tried plasma).

Again, both my fault. Impatience of the first, and naivety of not realizing that places like AVS are loaded with people who are fanboys for the various display types (some of whom are probably tv manufacture shills promoting their products) who deflect criticism/flaws and try to get everyone to buy their display type of choice regardless of their usage. And this seems extra true on the plasma side as people are understandably worried about them becoming more and more of niche/decline product with LED sales way up, and plasma sales declining over the past several years--causing Pioneer to get out of the game all together, and now Panny has dropped some of their lower end lines and closed one of their plants etc.

So lessen learned. I ended up getting a 55" 3D LED set (Panny ET5 series) for $899 after I sent the UT50 plasma back--which was only $10 more than I had paid for the plasma and two pairs of active 3D glasses. So patience pays off.

And I'll never bother with forums when deciding what TV to buy in the future. I'm not a videophile and those types just drive me nuts with the bias, nitpicking and obsessing PQ stuff that I frankly don't give a damn about. I find things like the user reviews on Amazon more useful than videophile opinions that are largely irrelevant to someone like me who doesn't care much and is just buying low end models from decent brands anyway. All I care about checking on is making sure a particular model isn't a lemon. I can buy pretty much any lower end TV from a decent brand (Sony, Panny, Samsung etc.) and be perfectly fine with the PQ as I'm not that picky.

But again, absolutely no one to blame but myself. At least I was smart enough to order from Amazon where I knew I could return with no cost or hassles if I wasn't happy. Just had them drop off the LED and take the plasma back all at once, no return shipping fees or restocking fees etc. So it wasn't that big of a deal, and at least I got to confirm that plasma definitely isn't for me and my uses.
Thanks for the definitive explanation. Don't feel bad because, we all learn from our mistakes. Good luck on your next purchase.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:45 PM   #59
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Thanks for the definitive explanation. Don't feel bad because, we all learn from our mistakes. Good luck on your next purchase.
I'm hoping that the Panny ET5 will hold me over for several years. Hopefully by the time I need a new TV there will be some new (and affordable) tech--be it OLED or something else--that can deliver plasma black levels etc. with the pretty much non-existent IR or buzzing worries of LED/LCD.

Otherwise, I'll use this one till it breaks as I'm very happy with it overall. Black levels/dark scenes on it aren't as good as on the UT50 plasma I bought first, but otherwise I think the picture looks great to my non-videophile eyes. And some things with lots of bright scenes look better to me since the set is so much brighter than the plasma.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:58 AM   #60
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Other than sometimes seeing faint IR for only a second or 2 when the screen turns black just after a static image has been displayed (which is far less noticeable than issues with screen uniformity/backlight bleeding on lcd panels), I don't really experience IR. I don't really use my main tv for anything other than movies anymore, therefore I don't really have to be concerned about static images other than movie menus, which are displayed for no more than 10 seconds. I don't watch much tv programing, I'm not interested in 90% of shows, so the channel logos aren't an issue. I hate watching pretty much all sports (which I think my fiancée appreciates ), and I don't invite anyone around to watch tv shows or sport except for the odd Australia vs New Zealand (I was born in New Zealand but have lived in Australia for most of my life) rugby union game, when guests are over if the tv goes on we all watch a movie. I don't often use my game consoles in my main setup anymore either. If my fiancee and I want to watch tv or play a game, most of the time we lay in or on our bed and use our bedroom setup. Entertaining kids isn't an issue, cause I don't have any nor do I want any.

In the last year and a half since purchasing my first plasma the only scare I've had was the other day when I was trying new calibration settings for 3d. The hdmi/dvi static image was displayed on the top right hand corner of the screen for about an hour while I was doing this, which was visible after finishing and wasn't disappearing. I just decided to leave the tv on and run the scrolling bar for about 10 hours while I was at work the next day, and the IR was gone when I got home. However just to make sure, I did watch 2 films with an aspect ratio of 1.78:1 also.
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Last edited by Cevolution; 02-22-2013 at 06:38 AM. Reason: fixed an error
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