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Old 11-21-2012, 12:23 AM   #381
Anthony P Anthony P is offline
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Originally Posted by R3P0 View Post
Due to bandwidth restrictions and the fact that most cable and sat providers use MPEG 2 to broadcast most likely 4k is only going to be for physical media.
who knows, even with HD OTA did it before cable and sat. NHK in Japan has already started testing 8k, let alone 4k.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:09 AM   #382
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who knows, even with HD OTA did it before cable and sat. NHK in Japan has already started testing 8k, let alone 4k.
Japan is a bit different based off the fact the government owns all the lines. Here in the States lines are owned by individual companies. Keep in mind Japans pays 50 a month for Gigabit internet to housing. No matter the provider its 50 a month price set by the government according to what my friend who lives there tells me.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:29 AM   #383
Anthony P Anthony P is offline
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Japan is a bit different based off the fact the government owns all the lines. Here in the States lines are owned by individual companies. Keep in mind Japans pays 50 a month for Gigabit internet to housing. No matter the provider its 50 a month price set by the government according to what my friend who lives there tells me.
agree with what you say, but I don't see what it has to do with what I posted
http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/17/30...rial-broadcast

Quote:
Japanese broadcaster NHK has managed to transmit an 8K video over a regular UHF TV broadcast, a feat it's calling a world first. The transmission was sent over a distance of 4.2km (about 2.6 miles) across Tokyo, and employed multiple-channel transmission (NHK refers to it as MIMO, like modern Wi-Fi networks) to cram all the information into the stream. While terrestrial broadasts of HDTV signals are in use around the world, this is a first for UHDTV (Super Hi-Vision is an NHK brand) — with a resolution of 7680 x 4320, the picture is 16 times more detailed than regular HD signals.

There's no word from NHK on when it hopes to bring this tech into widespread use, but it's another milestone in bringing Super Hi-Vision to the general public and regular TV broadcasts. In February the company announced that it had engineered an 8K sensor that can shoot at 120fps, while in April it showed off its 145-inch 8K display produced in collaboration with Panasonic. If you're interested in seeing the technology at work, it's on display between the 24th and 27th May in NHK's Science and Research laboratories
now don't get me wrong, 8k OTA is decades away but ATSC 3.0 is being worked on and it will include 4k http://www.atsc.org/cms/bootcamp/ATSC3.pdf
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:03 AM   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
Marketing people can be such teases , like the servers here -

For example - http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...very-get-ready

now this -
http://blog.sony.com/sony-4k-content

b.t.w., do any savvy readers actually believe this malarkey…“Okay, I can’t say anything more right now, ‘cause my boss probably already thinks I’ve written too much”.
So sony is teaming up with redray? The announcement seems to align with reds announcement. If so, what about 4KBD?

EDIT-

Quote:
As an extra bonus, included free with the purchase will be the world’s first 4K Ultra HD delivery solution, complete with pre-loaded, native 4K entertainment. Not some goofy 4K content shot as a demo. I’m talking full length feature Hollywood productions, and available exclusively to purchasers of Sony’s 84” 4K Ultra HD TV.
Sounds like redray to me.
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Last edited by saprano; 11-21-2012 at 06:07 AM.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:07 AM   #385
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So sony is teaming up with redray? The announcement seems to align with reds announcement.
Definitely not.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:17 AM   #386
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Definitely not.
so we are gonna end up buying red ray disks right ?
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:00 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by starfantasy View Post
so we are gonna end up buying red ray disks right ?
Somebody buying these 84" TVs could certainly afford it!

But in the long run Redray has nothing to do with mass-market. It is certainly important that people are shooting 4k stuff, and that they are able to easily show it at exhibitions and film festivals etc.

But if Joe Average has a 4k-capable player under his TV in 5 years it will not be anything RED.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:15 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by vargo View Post
Somebody buying these 84" TVs could certainly afford it!

But in the long run Redray has nothing to do with mass-market. It is certainly important that people are shooting 4k stuff, and that they are able to easily show it at exhibitions and film festivals etc.

But if Joe Average has a 4k-capable player under his TV in 5 years it will not be anything RED.

what about movies that are not shot in 4k how will they look ? Then again we have Lawrence of Arabia restored in 4k
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:24 PM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starfantasy View Post
what about movies that are not shot in 4k how will they look ? Then again we have Lawrence of Arabia restored in 4k
A 35mm film negative has a resolution of roughly 4k. Practically all movies shot in the last decade, whether on film or digitally have a final resolution of 2k. 70mm film has a resolution exceeding 4k, most likely 6 or 8k.

In short, 4k scans of existing films will benefit them immensely unless they have undergone the digital intermediate (DI) process where they have been scanned into a computer and had all of the CG, color correction, etc done at 2k.

Here's an example.

Dr. No was made in 1962. It was shot on 35mm film and all work was done photochemically. It recently underwent a 4k scan for the BD release (I'm not sure if all work was done at 4k, but the raw negative was scanned at 4k).

Casino Royale was made in 2006. It was also shot on 35mm film but the final movie is locked in at 2k.
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:36 PM   #390
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In short, 4k scans of existing films will benefit them immensely unless they have undergone the digital intermediate (DI) process where they have been scanned into a computer and had all of the CG, color correction, etc done at 2k.
Wow, that ^ brings back memories, as at least someone learned something from my posts over the past few years in regards to the value of higher resolution (> 2K) digital scanning of film source after my quoting collaborative references from individuals at a notable post production facility, a leading European camera manufacturer and at least one Hollywood studio.

I guess I should post a short F/U note about that as I was unfairly maligned several months ago and never had the opportunity, nor interest in responding. WRT that, nothing was ever posted out-of-context and I couldn’t care less about interfering with the relationship between two individuals who have been buddies for years, heck more power to them. The point was that in the past a blogger with a photochemical background had been (and, for all I know, still is?) subtly dismissive of the value of 4K scanning (as opposed to 2K scanning) of 35mm film source with regards to Blu-ray movie production and exhibition, of which I disagree(d), because I, on the other hand, find some value in the higher harvest, and thusly, quoted collaborative references as described above, which, as an aside, is a normal procedure in writing scientific papers, along with including a Bibliography.

In short, if one embraces 8K scanning of original 65mm film source as to being worthwhile for Blu-ray production and home exhibition (in 1080p), then one should also embrace 4K scanning of 35mm film source.
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:41 PM   #391
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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So sony is teaming up with redray?...
No, the point is that these marketing fellas are such teases with their controlled revelations/announcements in an effort to one-upmanship the other party.

Reminds me of the dueling camera events from Canon and RED (within hours of each other) in November 2011…
http://www.verticalonline.com/red-scarlet-x-canon-c300/

Some would argue that even though Canon had Martin Scorsese as a celebrity
guest, that RED ruled the day , i.e. from the author, "BTW – I ordered a RED Scarlet-X". Heck, they’ve cultivated an army of followers over the years.
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Last edited by Penton-Man; 11-21-2012 at 04:45 PM. Reason: added a phrase
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:57 PM   #392
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Due to bandwidth restrictions and the fact that most cable and sat providers use MPEG 2 to broadcast most likely 4k is only going to be for physical media.
In some peoples’ minds, it is not a question of IF but of WHEN.
Consider Sat vs. cable.
http://www.satmagazine.com/cgi-bin/d...ber=2087270942

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RIP Art Modell - You may have killed the city of Cleveland when you moved the Browns to Baltimore, but your visions did give us the Ravens.
Is that ^ what the city of Cleveland thinks? Shucks, they got off EASY compared to what the Irsay family did to us Baltimoreans…skip to the 14 min. mark of the following clip…
…not to mention the fact that we lost our blue and white colors, team logo and name (http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...altimore-evans ). For me, a native Baltimorean, albeit transplanted to California, it would be like losing the Baltimore Orioles and having the replacement/expansion baseball team named something like the Baltimore Stallions, wearing royal blue uniforms.

In short, Cleveland, despite your short-term pro football void (what, 3 years as opposed to 12 years for the football fans of Baltimore), you retained your team history. Mine left in Mayflower moving vans in the middle of the night with snow on the ground.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:46 PM   #393
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It's been a while since school, but there is something known as Nyquist's sampling theory. Basically, if you've got a signal with 2 KHz information, you need to sample at 4 KHz to avoid aliasing (getting things that don't exist in the signal being sampled).

Does this apply to film scanning? A negative with 2K resolution should be sampled (scanned) at 4K?

Last edited by joie; 11-21-2012 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:41 PM   #394
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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^ In short, Yes.

In long, see the pdf linked here…
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....ng#post5262638

P.S.
Eh, I see that pdf link to the paper is no longer active, so, here you go, try the download here…http://archiv.arri.de/4kplus-systems/index.htm

What is the significance or credibility of the assertions presented in this paper, one might ask?

Well, he/it only won the 2009 SMPTE Journal Award - https://www.smpte.org/about/awards-p...ournal-winners
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Last edited by Penton-Man; 11-21-2012 at 07:44 PM. Reason: added a P.S.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:47 PM   #395
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Everyone have a wonderful Thanksgiving and many blessings to you and your families (human as well as animal ).
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:02 AM   #396
Constitution 101 Constitution 101 is offline
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Everyone have a wonderful Thanksgiving and many blessings to you and your families (human as well as animal ).
Same to you. Most of us have more to be thankful for than we realize sometimes...
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:39 PM   #397
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Same to you. Most of us have more to be thankful for than we realize sometimes...
Well, for me, it’s definitely been a roller-coaster year with health issues and the latest ‘challenge’ being coping with the loss of a beloved family member as I’ve described above but, I’m thankful for all I still have because I’m sure it could be much worse. Though, the straw that might break the camel’s back is that when I look at the home page of the forum and see how many members are viewing the “Black Friday Movie and TV deals” section http://forum.blu-ray.com/

it really makes me wonder how it seems that so many people have so much more disposable income than I do at the moment.
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Old 11-23-2012, 06:01 PM   #398
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Well, for me, it’s definitely been a roller-coaster year with health issues and the latest ‘challenge’ being coping with the loss of a beloved family member as I’ve described above but, I’m thankful for all I still have because I’m sure it could be much worse. Though, the straw that might break the camel’s back is that when I look at the home page of the forum and see how many members are viewing the “Black Friday Movie and TV deals” section http://forum.blu-ray.com/

it really makes me wonder how it seems that so many people have so much more disposable income than I do at the moment.
I wouldn't make false assumption that they do(credit)LOL.
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:48 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
Well, for me, it’s definitely been a roller-coaster year with health issues and the latest ‘challenge’ being coping with the loss of a beloved family member as I’ve described above but, I’m thankful for all I still have because I’m sure it could be much worse. Though, the straw that might break the camel’s back is that when I look at the home page of the forum and see how many members are viewing the “Black Friday Movie and TV deals” section http://forum.blu-ray.com/

it really makes me wonder how it seems that so many people have so much more disposable income than I do at the moment.
I feel you Penton,this year for me has been very similar to yours.... better times ahead!
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:04 AM   #400
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http://www.theatlantic.com/entertain...-again/265184/
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