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Old 12-23-2012, 11:01 PM   #4261
Anthony P Anthony P is offline
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Originally Posted by pagemaster View Post
Prove it then?
just walk into your nearest Walmart http://www.walmart.com/ip/LG-BP125-B...layer/21608836
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:08 PM   #4262
pro-bassoonist pro-bassoonist is offline
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Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
MOST PEOPLE DON'T CARE. about better picture quality to that degree.


Sorry to say, sad but true.
Why is it sad? And why does it matter whether they care or not?

1. I've mentioned this many times in these debates and I will mention it again: The boom of the DVD market was not caused by people who demanded superior quality -- people were perfectly fine with PAN/SCAN product. It was driven by approximately 10% of very heavy collectors. And this isn't my observation, it is a fact shared many times by Universal's Craig Kornblau.

Blu-ray's maturation cycle is very similar. The only major difference here is that Blu-ray exists in a completely different economic reality. That's all.

2. Quality has never been the basic driving force behind market phenomenons such as DVD. If this was the case, everyone would be driving Ferraris. And all broadcasting will be in HD.

Pro-B

Last edited by pro-bassoonist; 12-23-2012 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:13 PM   #4263
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Originally Posted by pagemaster View Post
These types of movies are not BR driven type of features. A film like Lawrence of Arabia needs to been on BR to understand the full impact. Blu-ray, like laserdisc is a very good format for certain types of movies, for others it would not make much difference.
This is a very strange statement. There is nothing unique about Lawrence of Arabia that makes it so much more special than hundreds of thousands of other films that need to be "appreciated" on Blu-ray. Maybe there is on certain internet forums where people seem convinced that Lawrence... is everything cinema should be, and beyond it there is nothing else to praise, but the reality is that it is just another film. Classic or not.

Pro-B

Last edited by pro-bassoonist; 12-23-2012 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:14 PM   #4264
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Originally Posted by 3DForLife View Post
What other movies are you talking about (the stuff in bold)?

In the case of ASM. Why is someone not in their right mind, if they choose the blu-ray over the dvd? Just because you can not tell a difference, doesn't mean everyone else is the same way.

BTW: The reviewer on this website gave it a 4.5/5.0 for PQ.
You don't get it, look at his post again. He never saw the BD, he bought the 3$ DVD did not like the film and to justify his 106 minutes of wasted life and the 3$ he is saying that no matter how much better and enjoyable it would have been on BD it would not be worth the extra money.

Note: I am not saying this film is not worth watching, since I have never seen it, I am just pointing out his point of view.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:30 PM   #4265
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Originally Posted by Anthony P View Post
You don't get it, look at his post again. He never saw the BD, he bought the 3$ DVD did not like the film and to justify his 106 minutes of wasted life and the 3$ he is saying that no matter how much better and enjoyable it would have been on BD it would not be worth the extra money.

Note: I am not saying this film is not worth watching, since I have never seen it, I am just pointing out his point of view.
Actually, I really enjoyed the movie.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:34 PM   #4266
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What point are you trying to make here? The first link you posted sums up what I said "For better or worse, the future of music is not the CD, and a huge recent milestone confirms what we have known for a long time: that it's largely digital."

Thats all I am saying, digital is where the market is heading because of the ease the content is allowed to be accessed.
I don't know if it is going digital or not, personally I don't care (I just care for quality). The discussion was about quality and you said that people were willing to go to low quality digital music, the first link shows that it has taken a dozen years for digital audio sales to match CD sales in the US and that is after higher (then the original i-tunes) quality digital alternatives have started popping up and if one looks at internationally those digital sales are much lower ( less than 1/3) and are lower to where the BD market is now
Quote:

I didn't mean BD was niche, I meant the idea of someone posting on any forum devoted to certain area in life in itself doesn't represent what the average person wants.
I agree that you will most likely get the average person (what ever that means) here posting (or anywhere else) but that does not negate anything. I know for a fact (due to some different threads) that there are people here that are very young (teens) and very old (retired) there are males (a lot) and females (just a bit) there are very wealthy and some unemployed, some with Doctorates and some with low education.... So depending on the discussion it could be very far off or very close to the general public.

Quote:
The OP stated footprint wasn't as important as I was making out to because he as a consumer didn't footprint as much. Im simply saying its naive for anyone on a BD forum to say that because of the simple fact that hey post on a BD forum. Just like it would be naive for someone on a "I love fat women" forum to make a comment about the general public views larger women in a more attracted light than thinner.
agree with the second part, and I would agree if it would be I am willing to spend more, but I can't see how footprint would work that way, I am guessing there are some hoarders here and some people that are the opposite (no matter what it is called). in a way I would almost assume the opposite, I know I prefer thinner cases for BDs with the ultra thin ones for box sets but thick enough for the spine to hold the title for the rest just because I have so many that taking up a bit less space would help a lot (i.e. if I can fit ~100 per shelf instead of the ~70 that would save a lot of place and I would not need as many media cases.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:41 PM   #4267
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist View Post
This is a very strange statement. There is nothing unique about Lawrence of Arabia that makes it so much more special than hundreds of thousands of other films that need to be "appreciated" on Blu-ray. Maybe there is on certain internet forums where people seem convinced that Lawrence... is everything cinema should be, and beyond it there is nothing else to praise, but the reality is that it is just another film. Classic or not.

Pro-B
Lawrence of Arabia should be seen on blu ray. The movie was filmed in 70mm and the original negative was scanned at 4K resolution (all done with theatrical distribution in mind)...all other transfers for this movie were done with a 35mm print.

Seeing the movie on blu-ray allows one to use the blu ray format at the best of its abilities.

Last edited by pagemaster; 12-23-2012 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:56 PM   #4268
Steedeel Steedeel is offline
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Too many assumptions about the 'average person'. Perfect example is my nephew, he listens to mp3 on his Ipod despite loving music. However, he buys blurays despite not being quite as passionate about his films as he is about music. The comparison is moot in this case. I think (strictly just my opinion) that this board is getting more and more people who just want to have a pop at bluray for whatever reason?
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:57 PM   #4269
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Originally Posted by pagemaster View Post
You are a bit out of line. People are not going to wait a decade to buy a BR player.
Well I have to respectively disagree with you on that one. We're almost 7 years into the blu-ray format and there are still plenty of people who have yet to convert to Blu-ray and complain that they can't get blu-ray players or blu-rays for as cheap as DVDs. I still see people state on forums that blu-ray is too expensive compared to DVD and they won't transistion until blu-ray players or blu-rays reach $X price point.

Now some blu-rays have reached low price points but not new releases at least right away. Those that think a 7 year old high def format will be as cheap as the 16 year old DVD, standard def, format are simply dreaming.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:04 AM   #4270
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Well I have to respectively disagree with you on that one. We're almost 7 years into the blu-ray format and there are still plenty of people who have yet to convert to Blu-ray and complain that they can't get blu-ray players or blu-rays for as cheap as DVDs. I still see people state on forums that blu-ray is too expensive compared to DVD and they won't transistion until blu-ray players or blu-rays reach $X price point.

Now some blu-rays have reached low price points but not new releases at least right away. Those that think a 7 year old high def format will be as cheap as the 16 year old DVD, standard def, format are simply dreaming.
Well, I have been arguing that low price is why DVD did so well. Now blu rays are finally coming down to a realistic price point, thus they are starting to move a bit. With the low price of dvd, the dvd introduced the concept of "street date" release of the movie. Finally people could buy their movie the day it was released on VHS. It did take a while for dvd to finally kill off the VHS as it should be pointed out but it would never of happened if the price for DVD was more in line with a laserdisc.

Today I purchased a 007 blu-ray movie for $6.99, the dvd of the same movie was $4.99. I won't buy the blu-ray at $9.99 however when the same movie on dvd is $4.99.

I think the best ever idea was the dvd/br/digital combo pack. Finally a smart well thoughtout package that gets you everything you need on a new release that would cost $25

Back to the players, maybe they will wait. I sure didn't.

Last edited by pagemaster; 12-24-2012 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:15 AM   #4271
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Its very hard to move a movie like The Vow on BR when prices are this cheap on DVD.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:17 AM   #4272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdodolak View Post
Well I have to respectively disagree with you on that one. We're almost 7 years into the blu-ray format and there are still plenty of people who have yet to convert to Blu-ray and complain that they can't get blu-ray players or blu-rays for as cheap as DVDs. I still see people state on forums that blu-ray is too expensive compared to DVD and they won't transistion until blu-ray players or blu-rays reach $X price point.

Now some blu-rays have reached low price points but not new releases at least right away. Those that think a 7 year old high def format will be as cheap as the 16 year old DVD, standard def, format are simply dreaming.
My old man doesn't own a blu-ray player, but he really enjoys it when he comes to my place to watch them. He can easily see a difference between dvd's and blu's, but won't buy a player until his DVD player stops working. Though in his home I don't think he would really notice the difference much if at all, because his lcd tv is too small and he sits too far back from it. I think anyone could see the difference if it's being used correctly. Often the people who claim they can't are either in a similar situation as my dad in regards to screen size and seating position, or haven't seen the DVD in years but ignorantly think they remember the DVD looking the same.
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Last edited by Cevolution; 12-24-2012 at 12:20 AM. Reason: changed a word
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:32 AM   #4273
fathergll fathergll is offline
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Originally Posted by Anthony P View Post
The discussion was about quality and you said that people were willing to go to low quality digital music, the first link shows that it has taken a dozen years for digital audio sales to match CD sales in the US and that is after higher (then the original i-tunes) quality digital alternatives have started popping up and if one looks at internationally those digital sales are much lower ( less than 1/3) and are lower to where the BD market is now
That's sales. That doesn't paint an accurate picture how people are listening to music. The sheer amount of illegal digital music files floating around is impossible to account for. Add in tons and tons of small independent bands are selling their content digitally or giving it away. The entire music industry sank years ago with album sales.

How many CD players are being sold compared to MP3 players? How do you think CD player sales will fare in 5 years? How about 10 years? Despite what album sales may say on some link, majority of people are listening to music via MP3 or streaming.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:38 AM   #4274
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Originally Posted by fathergll View Post
That's sales. That doesn't paint an accurate picture how people are listening to music. The sheer amount of illegal digital music files floating around is impossible to account for. Add in tons and tons of small independent bands are selling their content digitally or giving it away. The entire music industry sank years ago with album sales.

How many CD players are being sold compared to MP3 players? How do you think CD player sales will fare in 5 years? How about 10 years? Despite what album sales may say on some link, majority of people are listening to music via MP3 or streaming.
The music industry is alive and well, it is just different than it was years ago.

As long as one can burn their purchased CDs to iTunes. There will always be CDs for sale
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:55 AM   #4275
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Originally Posted by pagemaster View Post

As long as one can burn their purchased CDs to iTunes. There will always be CDs for sale

Thats making the assumption you'll have a CD drive to do that with. Computers are moving away from optical drives. Apple iMacs, Airs and Retina Macbook Pros all have no optical drives. There's still ways around that but much like the floppy disc, CD drives are going bye bye
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:31 AM   #4276
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I've enjoyed reading this thread.

A few random thoughts...

- Being 40 years old, I remember the days when, if you missed seeing a movie at the theater, then that movie was gone. The days before Blu-ray, before streaming video, before DVD, before videocassettes, and even before HBO. If you missed a movie at the theater, then you missed your chance, and that was that. If you were lucky, you might see an edited fullscreen version of that movie on Sunday night on ABC or NBC three or four years later, but that was pretty much it.

- I think that media upgrades are all about convenience. I remember the first time someone showed me a CD player in the 1980s. Once I realized that I did not have to rewind or fast-forward, and that I could skip instantly to different songs, I had to have a CD player of my own. Everyone had to.
For CDs, the sound difference over cassette tapes and vinyl was not the main selling factor, although it was an attractive benefit. The main selling point was the random access capability of the CD player. That advance in convenience was the main selling point and, although more people think of music as data today, we still have not seen a medium that offers greater instant convenience than a CD player.

- which brings us to Blu-ray over DVD. I have only owned a Blu-ray player for a couple of weeks now, and, in terms of sheer convenience, a Blu-ray player is a step back in some ways. I have a habit of starting a movie in the evening when I've come home from the gym, turning that movie off before I go to sleep, and resuming the movie at the same place the following night. Several of my Blu-rays, however, do not offer the option of resuming the movie where I last left off. The high definition 1080p resolution is astounding to me, and, as a cinema lover, I am enthralled with the capabilities of Blu-ray on a 1080p television. The first few times that I watched the Blu-ray discs of films that I already owned in the medium (by way of the DVD/Blu-ray combo discs that I already owned in my collection), my eyes felt as though they had been through some sort of boot camp workout. I was amazed, and I am still amazed.
Most people out there, however, are not in love with cinema as I am, or as most of the people in this forum seem to be. As many in this thread have stated, our friends do not know or care to know the difference between fullscreen, widescreen, and so on.
For these people, Blu-rays do not offer any convenience to their lives, and that, I believe, is the reason why Blu-ray is slow to replace DVDs.

- I held off on switching to Blu-ray for a long time, although I am a serious movie fan. I do not even have cable television or satellite service, so, if not for movies, I would not even own a television. Still, I merely thought of Blu-ray as a stopgap measure before movies are made available instantly via the internet. Years of being besieged by those annoying Blu-ray commercials at the beginning of DVDs, years of seeing Blu-ray slowly become more prominent in stores, and years of seeing a movie that I want to rent from the Redbox booth all rented out on DVD while copies of the Blu-ray were readily available sort of all worked in combination for me. Once I saw the picture quality difference, I was sold, but others may not be.

- I have lazy eye in my right eye, so I do not see in 3D and, therefore, have no need for 3D movies or televisions with 3D capabilities. I also figure that, while 4K resolution capability is moving in, I might see the difference between 1080p and 4K if I have a 100'' television screen, but it will not make a difference otherwise.
For someone in my situation, the current Blu-rays will likely be the greatest viewing experience available for the rest of my entire life. Since I am unable to experience 3D, I do not see any sort of improvement over today's 1080p high definition movies to my eyes. I think that this is a good thing!
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Old 12-24-2012, 05:41 AM   #4277
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Originally Posted by fathergll View Post
Thats making the assumption you'll have a CD drive to do that with. Computers are moving away from optical drives. Apple iMacs, Airs and Retina Macbook Pros all have no optical drives. There's still ways around that but much like the floppy disc, CD drives are going bye bye
You are right, Macs are moving away and so are cheap end computers, and some car manufacturers are deleting the cd option. But not all computers will lose the CD drives. Why people buy over priced macs is something I can't understand. iTunes does so well because the whole Apple experience is trendy, fun and easy to use.

Consumers are driven by the price point, as long as there is an incentive to purchase a certain medium at a certain price, people will do it. iTunes makes some pretty compelling reasons to buy the digital down load as opposed to a CD, especially when the price is lower.

I for one had the option of renting the movie Summer With Monika for $3.99 on iTunes, or I could purchase the DVD for $33.99 at the store I went to find it at....It is a very hard argument to convince someone to buy the Summer With Monika DVD when the iTunes download makes so much more sense.

Last edited by pagemaster; 12-24-2012 at 05:45 AM.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:48 AM   #4278
fathergll fathergll is offline
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Originally Posted by pagemaster View Post
You are right, Macs are moving away and so are cheap end computers, and some car manufacturers are deleting the cd option. But not all computers will lose the CD drives.
How many computers have floppy drives today?

Quote:
Why people buy over priced macs is something I can't understand.
Well theres a number of reasons. One being you can't run OSX on non Apple hardware for example(legally). I happened to be posting this off a Macbook Air. The integration of OSX and the trackpad is awesome....I have yet to use a Windows laptop that matches it.

Oh and lastly Apple computers hold their value in the used market place. Macbook Pros from 2008 still fetch for $500 easily. Im all ears if you can show me another brand that hold their value that well.

Quote:
iTunes does so well because the whole Apple experience is trendy, fun and easy to use.
Yep, thats a good business model.


Quote:
Consumers are driven by the price point, as long as there is an incentive to purchase a certain medium at a certain price, people will do it. iTunes makes some pretty compelling reasons to buy the digital down load as opposed to a CD, especially when the price is lower.
Thats hold true as long as the consumers still value that medium. People don't value CDs in 2012.

This is evident everywhere. You want cheap music, go to any record/cd store(if you can still find one) or even ebay and check out the prices on used CDs. Its an absolutely steal.....much cheaper than iTunes. Many new albums are actual cheaper than iTunes.




Quote:
I for one had the option of renting the movie Summer With Monika for $3.99 on iTunes, or I could purchase the DVD for $33.99 at the store I went to find it at....It is a very hard argument to convince someone to buy the Summer With Monika DVD when the iTunes download makes so much more sense.
No arguments here.

Option A - Spend time and gas to drive to the store to pay $33.99
Option B - Spend 10 mins to download and pay $3.99
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:58 AM   #4279
fathergll fathergll is offline
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Originally Posted by The Great Owl View Post
- I think that media upgrades are all about convenience. I remember the first time someone showed me a CD player in the 1980s. Once I realized that I did not have to rewind or fast-forward, and that I could skip instantly to different songs, I had to have a CD player of my own. Everyone had to.
For CDs, the sound difference over cassette tapes and vinyl was not the main selling factor, although it was an attractive benefit. The main selling point was the random access capability of the CD player. That advance in convenience was the main selling point and, although more people think of music as data today, we still have not seen a medium that offers greater instant convenience than a CD player.
Yep....its puzzling why anyone would not think this today. Now think about 10 years ago when the iPod came out. You can carry all of your albums in your pocket. Sounds familiar to what you experienced in the 80's huh about the CD convenience wow moment ? And obviously both formats took off.....
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:51 PM   #4280
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The Great Owl speaks the truth. I agree with just about everything there....lets face it, blus just don't have that amazing factor over dvds to convince everyone they need to buy them. DVDs are still a plenty good option for a lot of people.
Frogs have it easy; they eat whatever bugs them.
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