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Old 12-23-2012, 11:56 PM   #4341
Steedeel Steedeel is online now
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Too many assumptions about the 'average person'. Perfect example is my nephew, he listens to mp3 on his Ipod despite loving music. However, he buys blurays despite not being quite as passionate about his films as he is about music. The comparison is moot in this case. I think (strictly just my opinion) that this board is getting more and more people who just want to have a pop at bluray for whatever reason?
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:57 PM   #4342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pagemaster View Post
You are a bit out of line. People are not going to wait a decade to buy a BR player.
Well I have to respectively disagree with you on that one. We're almost 7 years into the blu-ray format and there are still plenty of people who have yet to convert to Blu-ray and complain that they can't get blu-ray players or blu-rays for as cheap as DVDs. I still see people state on forums that blu-ray is too expensive compared to DVD and they won't transistion until blu-ray players or blu-rays reach $X price point.

Now some blu-rays have reached low price points but not new releases at least right away. Those that think a 7 year old high def format will be as cheap as the 16 year old DVD, standard def, format are simply dreaming.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:04 AM   #4343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdodolak View Post
Well I have to respectively disagree with you on that one. We're almost 7 years into the blu-ray format and there are still plenty of people who have yet to convert to Blu-ray and complain that they can't get blu-ray players or blu-rays for as cheap as DVDs. I still see people state on forums that blu-ray is too expensive compared to DVD and they won't transistion until blu-ray players or blu-rays reach $X price point.

Now some blu-rays have reached low price points but not new releases at least right away. Those that think a 7 year old high def format will be as cheap as the 16 year old DVD, standard def, format are simply dreaming.
Well, I have been arguing that low price is why DVD did so well. Now blu rays are finally coming down to a realistic price point, thus they are starting to move a bit. With the low price of dvd, the dvd introduced the concept of "street date" release of the movie. Finally people could buy their movie the day it was released on VHS. It did take a while for dvd to finally kill off the VHS as it should be pointed out but it would never of happened if the price for DVD was more in line with a laserdisc.

Today I purchased a 007 blu-ray movie for $6.99, the dvd of the same movie was $4.99. I won't buy the blu-ray at $9.99 however when the same movie on dvd is $4.99.

I think the best ever idea was the dvd/br/digital combo pack. Finally a smart well thoughtout package that gets you everything you need on a new release that would cost $25

Back to the players, maybe they will wait. I sure didn't.

Last edited by pagemaster; 12-24-2012 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:15 AM   #4344
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Its very hard to move a movie like The Vow on BR when prices are this cheap on DVD.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:17 AM   #4345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdodolak View Post
Well I have to respectively disagree with you on that one. We're almost 7 years into the blu-ray format and there are still plenty of people who have yet to convert to Blu-ray and complain that they can't get blu-ray players or blu-rays for as cheap as DVDs. I still see people state on forums that blu-ray is too expensive compared to DVD and they won't transistion until blu-ray players or blu-rays reach $X price point.

Now some blu-rays have reached low price points but not new releases at least right away. Those that think a 7 year old high def format will be as cheap as the 16 year old DVD, standard def, format are simply dreaming.
My old man doesn't own a blu-ray player, but he really enjoys it when he comes to my place to watch them. He can easily see a difference between dvd's and blu's, but won't buy a player until his DVD player stops working. Though in his home I don't think he would really notice the difference much if at all, because his lcd tv is too small and he sits too far back from it. I think anyone could see the difference if it's being used correctly. Often the people who claim they can't are either in a similar situation as my dad in regards to screen size and seating position, or haven't seen the DVD in years but ignorantly think they remember the DVD looking the same.
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Last edited by Cevolution; 12-24-2012 at 12:20 AM. Reason: changed a word
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:32 AM   #4346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony P View Post
The discussion was about quality and you said that people were willing to go to low quality digital music, the first link shows that it has taken a dozen years for digital audio sales to match CD sales in the US and that is after higher (then the original i-tunes) quality digital alternatives have started popping up and if one looks at internationally those digital sales are much lower ( less than 1/3) and are lower to where the BD market is now
That's sales. That doesn't paint an accurate picture how people are listening to music. The sheer amount of illegal digital music files floating around is impossible to account for. Add in tons and tons of small independent bands are selling their content digitally or giving it away. The entire music industry sank years ago with album sales.

How many CD players are being sold compared to MP3 players? How do you think CD player sales will fare in 5 years? How about 10 years? Despite what album sales may say on some link, majority of people are listening to music via MP3 or streaming.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:38 AM   #4347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fathergll View Post
That's sales. That doesn't paint an accurate picture how people are listening to music. The sheer amount of illegal digital music files floating around is impossible to account for. Add in tons and tons of small independent bands are selling their content digitally or giving it away. The entire music industry sank years ago with album sales.

How many CD players are being sold compared to MP3 players? How do you think CD player sales will fare in 5 years? How about 10 years? Despite what album sales may say on some link, majority of people are listening to music via MP3 or streaming.
The music industry is alive and well, it is just different than it was years ago.

As long as one can burn their purchased CDs to iTunes. There will always be CDs for sale
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:55 AM   #4348
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Originally Posted by pagemaster View Post

As long as one can burn their purchased CDs to iTunes. There will always be CDs for sale

Thats making the assumption you'll have a CD drive to do that with. Computers are moving away from optical drives. Apple iMacs, Airs and Retina Macbook Pros all have no optical drives. There's still ways around that but much like the floppy disc, CD drives are going bye bye
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:31 AM   #4349
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I've enjoyed reading this thread.

A few random thoughts...

- Being 40 years old, I remember the days when, if you missed seeing a movie at the theater, then that movie was gone. The days before Blu-ray, before streaming video, before DVD, before videocassettes, and even before HBO. If you missed a movie at the theater, then you missed your chance, and that was that. If you were lucky, you might see an edited fullscreen version of that movie on Sunday night on ABC or NBC three or four years later, but that was pretty much it.

- I think that media upgrades are all about convenience. I remember the first time someone showed me a CD player in the 1980s. Once I realized that I did not have to rewind or fast-forward, and that I could skip instantly to different songs, I had to have a CD player of my own. Everyone had to.
For CDs, the sound difference over cassette tapes and vinyl was not the main selling factor, although it was an attractive benefit. The main selling point was the random access capability of the CD player. That advance in convenience was the main selling point and, although more people think of music as data today, we still have not seen a medium that offers greater instant convenience than a CD player.

- which brings us to Blu-ray over DVD. I have only owned a Blu-ray player for a couple of weeks now, and, in terms of sheer convenience, a Blu-ray player is a step back in some ways. I have a habit of starting a movie in the evening when I've come home from the gym, turning that movie off before I go to sleep, and resuming the movie at the same place the following night. Several of my Blu-rays, however, do not offer the option of resuming the movie where I last left off. The high definition 1080p resolution is astounding to me, and, as a cinema lover, I am enthralled with the capabilities of Blu-ray on a 1080p television. The first few times that I watched the Blu-ray discs of films that I already owned in the medium (by way of the DVD/Blu-ray combo discs that I already owned in my collection), my eyes felt as though they had been through some sort of boot camp workout. I was amazed, and I am still amazed.
Most people out there, however, are not in love with cinema as I am, or as most of the people in this forum seem to be. As many in this thread have stated, our friends do not know or care to know the difference between fullscreen, widescreen, and so on.
For these people, Blu-rays do not offer any convenience to their lives, and that, I believe, is the reason why Blu-ray is slow to replace DVDs.

- I held off on switching to Blu-ray for a long time, although I am a serious movie fan. I do not even have cable television or satellite service, so, if not for movies, I would not even own a television. Still, I merely thought of Blu-ray as a stopgap measure before movies are made available instantly via the internet. Years of being besieged by those annoying Blu-ray commercials at the beginning of DVDs, years of seeing Blu-ray slowly become more prominent in stores, and years of seeing a movie that I want to rent from the Redbox booth all rented out on DVD while copies of the Blu-ray were readily available sort of all worked in combination for me. Once I saw the picture quality difference, I was sold, but others may not be.

- I have lazy eye in my right eye, so I do not see in 3D and, therefore, have no need for 3D movies or televisions with 3D capabilities. I also figure that, while 4K resolution capability is moving in, I might see the difference between 1080p and 4K if I have a 100'' television screen, but it will not make a difference otherwise.
For someone in my situation, the current Blu-rays will likely be the greatest viewing experience available for the rest of my entire life. Since I am unable to experience 3D, I do not see any sort of improvement over today's 1080p high definition movies to my eyes. I think that this is a good thing!
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Old 12-24-2012, 05:41 AM   #4350
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Originally Posted by fathergll View Post
Thats making the assumption you'll have a CD drive to do that with. Computers are moving away from optical drives. Apple iMacs, Airs and Retina Macbook Pros all have no optical drives. There's still ways around that but much like the floppy disc, CD drives are going bye bye
You are right, Macs are moving away and so are cheap end computers, and some car manufacturers are deleting the cd option. But not all computers will lose the CD drives. Why people buy over priced macs is something I can't understand. iTunes does so well because the whole Apple experience is trendy, fun and easy to use.

Consumers are driven by the price point, as long as there is an incentive to purchase a certain medium at a certain price, people will do it. iTunes makes some pretty compelling reasons to buy the digital down load as opposed to a CD, especially when the price is lower.

I for one had the option of renting the movie Summer With Monika for $3.99 on iTunes, or I could purchase the DVD for $33.99 at the store I went to find it at....It is a very hard argument to convince someone to buy the Summer With Monika DVD when the iTunes download makes so much more sense.

Last edited by pagemaster; 12-24-2012 at 05:45 AM.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:48 AM   #4351
fathergll fathergll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pagemaster View Post
You are right, Macs are moving away and so are cheap end computers, and some car manufacturers are deleting the cd option. But not all computers will lose the CD drives.
How many computers have floppy drives today?

Quote:
Why people buy over priced macs is something I can't understand.
Well theres a number of reasons. One being you can't run OSX on non Apple hardware for example(legally). I happened to be posting this off a Macbook Air. The integration of OSX and the trackpad is awesome....I have yet to use a Windows laptop that matches it.

Oh and lastly Apple computers hold their value in the used market place. Macbook Pros from 2008 still fetch for $500 easily. Im all ears if you can show me another brand that hold their value that well.

Quote:
iTunes does so well because the whole Apple experience is trendy, fun and easy to use.
Yep, thats a good business model.


Quote:
Consumers are driven by the price point, as long as there is an incentive to purchase a certain medium at a certain price, people will do it. iTunes makes some pretty compelling reasons to buy the digital down load as opposed to a CD, especially when the price is lower.
Thats hold true as long as the consumers still value that medium. People don't value CDs in 2012.

This is evident everywhere. You want cheap music, go to any record/cd store(if you can still find one) or even ebay and check out the prices on used CDs. Its an absolutely steal.....much cheaper than iTunes. Many new albums are actual cheaper than iTunes.




Quote:
I for one had the option of renting the movie Summer With Monika for $3.99 on iTunes, or I could purchase the DVD for $33.99 at the store I went to find it at....It is a very hard argument to convince someone to buy the Summer With Monika DVD when the iTunes download makes so much more sense.
No arguments here.

Option A - Spend time and gas to drive to the store to pay $33.99
Option B - Spend 10 mins to download and pay $3.99
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:58 AM   #4352
fathergll fathergll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Owl View Post
- I think that media upgrades are all about convenience. I remember the first time someone showed me a CD player in the 1980s. Once I realized that I did not have to rewind or fast-forward, and that I could skip instantly to different songs, I had to have a CD player of my own. Everyone had to.
For CDs, the sound difference over cassette tapes and vinyl was not the main selling factor, although it was an attractive benefit. The main selling point was the random access capability of the CD player. That advance in convenience was the main selling point and, although more people think of music as data today, we still have not seen a medium that offers greater instant convenience than a CD player.
Yep....its puzzling why anyone would not think this today. Now think about 10 years ago when the iPod came out. You can carry all of your albums in your pocket. Sounds familiar to what you experienced in the 80's huh about the CD convenience wow moment ? And obviously both formats took off.....
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:51 PM   #4353
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The Great Owl speaks the truth. I agree with just about everything there....lets face it, blus just don't have that amazing factor over dvds to convince everyone they need to buy them. DVDs are still a plenty good option for a lot of people.
Frogs have it easy; they eat whatever bugs them.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:04 PM   #4354
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http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=206626
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:13 PM   #4355
rdodolak rdodolak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fathergll View Post
Thats making the assumption you'll have a CD drive to do that with. Computers are moving away from optical drives. Apple iMacs, Airs and Retina Macbook Pros all have no optical drives. There's still ways around that but much like the floppy disc, CD drives are going bye bye
We'll see. There are plenty of optical drives on the PC side. Yes, there are some ultra light PC notebooks without them but Apple seems to be to only one to try and completely eliminate them. Then again, Apple wants you to go through their iTunes store for everything so that they get a piece of every sale. Hence, the moral of the story is Apple has a reason as to why they want to kill off the optical drive.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:24 PM   #4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fathergll View Post
How many computers have floppy drives today?
Well, that's because CDs eventually replaced the floppy disk. CDs could hold much more data and were much more convenient. We also have DVD and Blu-ray drives too.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:31 PM   #4357
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I've never used the optical drives on any Apple products that had them (late 2010 and earlier) and I don't miss them now that I don't.

Once a decent unified digital system comes about that will allow me transfer my purchases around easier to multiple home TVs and computers, I may stop buying regular media. It'll depend on download speeds and ease of use. iTunes and Apple TV aren't terrible, but it's still far from optimal.

HD viewing online and streaming is quite popular isn't it?
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:56 PM   #4358
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Sorry to hear you are downgrading your movie experience. Shame in my opinion
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:14 PM   #4359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fathergll View Post

Thats hold true as long as the consumers still value that medium. People don't value CDs in 2012.

This is evident everywhere. You want cheap music, go to any record/cd store(if you can still find one) or even ebay and check out the prices on used CDs. Its an absolutely steal.....much cheaper than iTunes. Many new albums are actual cheaper than iTunes.
I value you what you are saying but I think CD's will be around longer than people think. It obviously won't have the market share it once did but it will still be used as a release platform for new music. I think in the long term, the music industry will not be able to sustain the current model of music downloading without the physical release window to match it , the new generation 10-15 years old do not care about ownership of music.

What iTunes etc has allowed is the release of bad music that we would probably would never of seen on a cd or vinyl. Album purchasing as opposed to singles purchasing have become more popular than ever.

I personally like to buy a vinyl if the price is appropriate. Recently I bought "Searching for Sugar Man" on CD, the iTunes version was $7.99, CD was $10, and the vinyl was $34.99. The vinyl just simply priced itself way out of consideration. The nice is that I can still burn Sugar Man to my iTunes and put it on my iPod.

For movies, the future will be renting the films and watching them from a downloading source, people will not buy full movies as a replacement to the physical media as that type of ownership will not exist. Personally, I think the greatest idea for blu rays was the addition of dvd/br/digital download as that adds a lot of value to the purchase of a movie compared to just downloading it.

Last edited by pagemaster; 12-24-2012 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:27 PM   #4360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdodolak View Post
We'll see. There are plenty of optical drives on the PC side. Yes, there are some ultra light PC notebooks without them but Apple seems to be to only one to try and completely eliminate them. Then again, Apple wants you to go through their iTunes store for everything so that they get a piece of every sale. Hence, the moral of the story is Apple has a reason as to why they want to kill off the optical drive.
Believe me PCs will be eliminating them as well as they already started as you stated with ultra light PC notebooks. Remember when Apple eliminated floppy drives from their computer line up and people thought that was a premature move?

Quote:
Well, that's because CDs eventually replaced the floppy disk. CDs could hold much more data and were much more convenient. We also have DVD and Blu-ray drives too.
And you have USB(thumb drives,MP3 players,Phones..etc), external HDs, wireless means of transporting data which is replacing CDs. You want to transport data? Throw it on your phone, throw it in a cloud....People are not going to be burning CDs to do this
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