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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Subwoofers

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Old 12-24-2012, 10:42 PM   #1
qx56 qx56 is offline
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Default a sub in each corner

Anyone have a setup with four subs
-QX-
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:54 PM   #2
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I wish!!!!
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:08 PM   #3
crazyBLUE crazyBLUE is offline
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Big Daddy has like 11 or 12 subs in his Home Theater room

You can get a world of information about multiple subs in the Sticky threads above started by Big Daddy.

BTW ~ I have 3 subs in my HT. A 8" ~ 12" & 15"
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qx56 View Post
Anyone have a setup with four subs
I have four budget subwoofers, with one in each corner of my room.
Each sub is positioned about 12 inches away from the wall.
That's to keep them from sounding "boomy."

It's amazing how Audyssey, with MultEQ XT32 and Sub EQ HT, seamlessly blended
my two ported and two sealed subwoofers together, in my room.
I'm now immersed in clean, tight, tuneful bass, whenever I watch a movie.

A quad subwoofer setup is the only way to go.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:31 PM   #5
qx56 qx56 is offline
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Just want to know what to expect when I get my four diys done. Although they will only be 12s. If anyone has gone From one to four was it all worth it? I'm hoping for a nother level of depth and that where is the sub sound. Also the extra headroom should be nice. They will be tuned quite abit lower than what I have now also. Thanks for the help merry Christmas.
-QX-
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:42 PM   #6
qx56 qx56 is offline
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Funny Tim you said budget subs. Svs is more than my budget allows. Good to hear your feed back. It's going to be a bit before mine are built but it should be worth the wiat. I hope it feeds my need.
-QX-
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:32 AM   #7
rpatt rpatt is offline
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I have four subs stacked in two stacks of two in the front corners. My room does not allow four corner placement. The ideal setup for four subs is one in each of the four wall midpoints (as per the Harman White Paper & Dr. Floyd E. Toole).

http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...D=White papers
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:03 AM   #8
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HTG has 4 check his gallery out.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:22 AM   #9
timcat4843 timcat4843 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qx56 View Post
Just want to know what to expect when I get my four diys done. Although they will only be 12s. If anyone has gone From one to four was it all worth it? I'm hoping for a nother level of depth and that where is the sub sound. Also the extra headroom should be nice. They will be tuned quite abit lower than what I have now also. Thanks for the help merry Christmas.
I've gone from two subs to adding two additional subs.
Being immersed in smooth articulate bass, in your HT, is worth every penny it takes, to upgrade to four subwoofers.
I'll never go back to just having two subs.
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpatt View Post
i have four subs stacked in two stacks of two in the front corners. My room does not allow four corner placement. the ideal setup for four subs is one in each of the four wall midpoints (as per the harman white paper & dr. Floyd e. Toole).

http://www.harman.com/en-us/ourcompany/innovation/pages/whitepapers.aspx?categoryid=white papers
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qx56 View Post
Just want to know what to expect when I get my four diys done. Although they will only be 12s. If anyone has gone From one to four was it all worth it? I'm hoping for a nother level of depth and that where is the sub sound. Also the extra headroom should be nice. They will be tuned quite abit lower than what I have now also. Thanks for the help merry Christmas.
Hi qx56,

I,ve had 4 subs for 15yrs,15inch,18inch subs.I would recommend going for 2 large (18inch drivers) DIY with eq.With a big budget 4 subs are nice but better to work on other weak points in most system first.Front stage(L,C,R) amps,processor etc.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victortubeman View Post
Hi qx56,

I,ve had 4 subs for 15yrs,15inch,18inch subs.I would recommend going for 2 large (18inch drivers) DIY with eq.With a big budget 4 subs are nice but better to work on other weak points in most system first.Front stage(L,C,R) amps,processor etc.
Agreed.

Placement is an art, not a science, and the best sound comes from many factors.

In my main theater I have five - a JL Audio Fathom F113, two JL Audio 12W3v3 in a custom ported box, and two DefTech Mythos ST units with built-in subs. None are in corners. Subwoofer performance is astounding.

It's a 7.1 setup, all speakers are DefTech Mythos, and it sounds right.

One sub in each corner is definitely going to be nice, but isn't a requirement for ideal sound. Not that it's a bad idea...
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:47 PM   #13
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Im almost there, got two pb 13's up front and one pc+ in the back of the room, I do have a spare SVS driver was thinking of doing a diy but im not skilled with tools.
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:34 AM   #14
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu-Dog View Post
Agreed.

Placement is an art, not a science, and the best sound comes from many factors.

In my main theater I have five - a JL Audio Fathom F113, two JL Audio 12W3v3 in a custom ported box, and two DefTech Mythos ST units with built-in subs. None are in corners. Subwoofer performance is astounding.

It's a 7.1 setup, all speakers are DefTech Mythos, and it sounds right.

One sub in each corner is definitely going to be nice, but isn't a requirement for ideal sound. Not that it's a bad idea...
I have to strongly disagree with that statement. Placement is mostly science and a lot of hard work for your back to carry the heavy subwoofers. It is not accidental that some positions work and some positions do not work. There is basic science of waves that can explain that. In fact, there are computer simulation models that can precisely calculate the exact positions of nodes and anti-nodes in a room.

That is what I tried to explain in A Guide to Subwoofers (Part II): Standing Waves & Room Modes sticky thread.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
I have to strongly disagree with that statement. Placement is mostly science and a lot of hard work for your back to carry the heavy subwoofers. It is not accidental that some positions work and some positions do not work. There is basic science of waves that can explain that. In fact, there are computer simulation models that can precisely calculate the exact positions of nodes and anti-nodes in a room.

That is what I tried to explain in A Guide to Subwoofers (Part II): Standing Waves & Room Modes sticky thread.
I don't know where the disagreement is. No two rooms are exactly the same, with shape, furniture placement, door openings, wall coverings and drapes, ceiling slope and texture, all playing a part in how it sounds.

While I don't doubt the efficacy of some computer simulations in a "blank slate" of a room, after the real world changes to accomodate furniture and the other factors I mentioned, they probably don't work. I can't see how you can even input such factors and have any kind of usable result.

It is most definitely an art. As the owner of many subwoofers, I've done the sub crawl many times. It's a requirement, since all subs are different, all rooms are different, and even the volume desired for the sub and the frequency limits for it all play a huge factor.

There is no software that accomodates all those factors, that will give a predictable output. Perhaps we have a difference in semantics - when I say it is an art, I mean that there is no predictive model, and many tests using the "let's see if this works" method are required. Art is not an "accident", unless you think a Ferrari looks better after it hits a brick wall.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
I have to strongly disagree with that statement. Placement is mostly science and a lot of hard work for your back to carry the heavy subwoofers. It is not accidental that some positions work and some positions do not work. There is basic science of waves that can explain that. In fact, there are computer simulation models that can precisely calculate the exact positions of nodes and anti-nodes in a room.

That is what I tried to explain in A Guide to Subwoofers (Part II): Standing Waves & Room Modes sticky thread.
BD (ironic we share the same screen name initials), I don't want to belabor this issue, but in the very thread you cite, you give a sterling example of exactly what I'm talking about. I don't understand why you strongly disagree with my comment.

A person had a question, concerning subwoofer placement in an irregularly shaped room. He gave significant detail about the features of the room, and his current subwoofer placement. He asked for advice; this was your response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
The first sub is in a good location. You have to really experiment to find the best place for your second subwoofer. The idea behind the statement that you quoted was to get rid off most of the peaks and valleys of the standing waves and even out the bass. The main purpose of that statement was not to increase the bass output. Try positions 1 and 2. Also, stack them on top of each other and decide if you like it. You may get blown away. Stacking increases output by as much as 6dB's, but it will not help evening out the standing waves.

In my case, I have seven external subwoofers (two 15", four 12", & one 8") and one Clark Tactile Transducer under the sofa. This is in addition to the two 15" powered subwoofers in my front speakers. I simply have tried to overwhelm the standing waves. In one of the papers listed in post #2, the researchers ran simulation models with 5,000 subwoofers to study their effect on the standing waves. That is my goal.
Clearly, you see it the same way I do. While there is science in the propagation of sound waves, the factors are so complex that it requires intuitive deduction, and active experimentation, to come up with the optimum solution. It is an art, the same way a painter understands the blending of colors that is defined by certain rules in the visible spectrum to obtain an effect, or the designer of an aircraft tries different configurations to acheive the optimum shape. In both cases, software simulations and rules of engineering and science are a starting point only.

Clearly, you have a deep understanding of these rules, yet they are only a starting point for experimentation - and the precise science behind these rules are often ignored by brute force to obtain a desired result. Clearly, you've followed this non-scientific, artful method yourself, and recommended it to others.

While I have not documented all my subwoofer builds for this forum (you do an excellent job of this), I currently have three custom built subs in my home, and have just delivered two more to one of my sons. I'm prepping two new additional bulds for my other son.

There is the scientific ideal, and then there is the wife, making sure we don't throw out all the seats to place a subwoofer in an "ideal" spot - which may not make that much difference. While your advice about nulls and other critical matters is quite scientific, your advice to "Also, stack them on top of each other and decide if you like it" has a scientific basis, but is definitely an artistic effort.

I just want to be sure that if we are in disagreement, the differences in our opinions is substantial. In this case, I don't think it is.

I also think that you dispense excellent advice. Good work, my friend.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:46 PM   #17
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I run two 18" JBL's which are behind my screen, 10 feet apart and both turned 90 degrees to face each other. There's no real reason that the subs need to "face" the audience. My HT gallery shows both subs in the center facing the rear of the room but that's been completely changed. It made a huge difference in what you hear. Every room is different and requires some experimenting.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie Man Don View Post
I run two 18" JBL's which are behind my screen, 10 feet apart and both turned 90 degrees to face each other. There's no real reason that the subs need to "face" the audience. My HT gallery shows both subs in the center facing the rear of the room but that's been completely changed. It made a huge difference in what you hear. Every room is different and requires some experimenting.
Two 18's? I hope you have false teeth, so you can buy a new set when those JBL's bust them up. That's got to be some real gut-busting bass.

I'd be concerned about them either canncelling each other out through interference or just not being directed into the room, but that's the problem with trying to be intuitive. The real world can come up with some real surprises. After you try it, the scientific reasons why it works can become obvious, or at least revealed, but you don't know until you try it.

Are these custom subs? And how are you powering these beasts? I've never built anything over a 12" sub or had one in my environment - I've seen them turned loose elsewhere, but I don't have personal time with subs that massive.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:39 PM   #19
Movie Man Don Movie Man Don is offline
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Originally Posted by Blu-Dog View Post
Two 18's? I hope you have false teeth, so you can buy a new set when those JBL's bust them up. That's got to be some real gut-busting bass.

I'd be concerned about them either canncelling each other out through interference or just not being directed into the room, but that's the problem with trying to be intuitive. The real world can come up with some real surprises. After you try it, the scientific reasons why it works can become obvious, or at least revealed, but you don't know until you try it.

Are these custom subs? And how are you powering these beasts? I've never built anything over a 12" sub or had one in my environment - I've seen them turned loose elsewhere, but I don't have personal time with subs that massive.
My subs are standard JBL Cinema versions (http://cn.jblpro.com/catalog/general...?PId=206&MId=1) powered by AV amps. You're right....the real world is not explainable sometimes. When my subs were sitting side by side, center screen facing the audience they just didn't kick butt like they should. I moved them at the suggestion of a theatre equipment installer and it seems he was right. One thing is for sure....don't put any sub in the center of the room. Either get 'em off the the side or in the rear.
Projectors: Kinoton PK60 Digital/Epson 5010
Lamphouse: Strong Super LumeX 2000 watt xenon
Processors: Dolby CP-650/Dolby Magnetic Preamp
Amps: QSC's, Smart and EV
Speakers: JBL 3678's L-C-R (3), JBL 4645C's SUBS (2) JBL 8330's SURROUNDS (4)
Screen: Harkness 3D Silver, 11x5 feet, mini-perf
Monitor: Kelmar -MS-100
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie Man Don View Post
My subs are standard JBL Cinema versions (http://cn.jblpro.com/catalog/general...?PId=206&MId=1) powered by AV amps. You're right....the real world is not explainable sometimes. When my subs were sitting side by side, center screen facing the audience they just didn't kick butt like they should. I moved them at the suggestion of a theatre equipment installer and it seems he was right. One thing is for sure....don't put any sub in the center of the room. Either get 'em off the the side or in the rear.
Now, that's a real subwoofer. I wonder how the installer guy figured that trick out - it's a new one on me.

I once toyed with the idea of putting a down-firing unit roughly in the middle of my main theater, but I figured it would have to be a real monster, and too big for the spot I was going to use. Glad I didn't.
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