COLLECT WATCH TRACK RATE REVIEW APP
Manage your own movie collection and always keep it with you with our Apps. Price track movies and get price drop notifications instantly. Become a member to take full advantage of all site features.
GET STARTED

Best Blu-ray Deals

Best Blu-ray Deals, See All the Deals »
Top deals | Price drops  
 All countries United States United Kingdom Canada Germany France Spain Italy Japan
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: The Complete First Season (Blu-ray)
$54.96
Poirot: The Complete Cases Collection (Blu-ray)
$198.49
Dexter: The Eighth Season (Blu-ray)
$17.99
Transformers Trilogy (Blu-ray)
$17.24
Orange Is the New Black: The Complete First Season (Blu-ray)
$18.49
Pain & Gain (Blu-ray)
$10.12
Ray Donovan: Season One (Blu-ray)
$24.49
Destroy All Monsters (Blu-ray)
$12.74
Marvel Cinematic Universe: Phase One - Avengers Assembled (Blu-ray)
$119.99
X-Men: Days of Future Past (Blu-ray)
$19.99
Sleepaway Camp (Blu-ray)
$15.99
Godzilla (Blu-ray)
$19.99
Steven Spielberg Director's Collection (Blu-ray)
$91.99
Sin City: A Dame to Kill For (Blu-ray)
$24.99
D-Day Remembered (Blu-ray)
$39.99
Baltimore Ravens: Road to XLVII (Blu-ray)
$20.08
Titanic 3D (Blu-ray)
$18.49
The Originals: The Complete First Season (Blu-ray)
$39.99
The Slumber Party Massacre (Blu-ray)
$13.99

Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Audio Theory and Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-27-2012, 07:35 AM   #61
victortubeman victortubeman is offline
Active Member
 
Mar 2012
Sydney Australia
14
1680
598
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post
on topic, i still stand by my original statement, with the MASSIVE dynamic range of TDKR's it's overloading the reciever. That panny had the same issue in many of the complaints. it some heavy duty DTS-HD MA tracks it'll trip the circuits and shut down. it's really as simple as that. could it be something else? probably but not likely, it could be a bad circuit that's tripping accidentally, but TDKR is definitely a stress test on ones receiver...
Agreed,AVR is tripping protection.

What amps are you(O.P) using to power the subs ?
Martin logan prodigy,centre logos,rear request,SUBS,2 Revel b15 , and 2 x Sgr Mal X 18inch 125lt.
AMPS,Audio Research Reference 600mkIII mono blocks left,right (5.1),Krell theatre amp standard (mono centre),bat vk-500 (rears),peavey cs 4080hz
PRE AMPS,proceed avp,bat vk-5 tube,copland cva306 6 channel tube ,SVS ASeq1.
M.L. No 31.5,dac, jadis js2mkII,Jvc rs2/hd-100 ,110inch 16:9 screen.2 chan,Avantgarde Duo Front left,right. PRE AMP,Concert Fidelity CF-080LSX Wavelength audio napoleon silver.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 11:02 AM   #62
Neild Neild is offline
Special Member
 
Jan 2011
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by victortubeman View Post
Agreed,AVR is tripping protection.

What amps are you(O.P) using to power the subs ?
Well maybe. But how come the protection code isn't coming up then?
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 11:05 AM   #63
Neild Neild is offline
Special Member
 
Jan 2011
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neild View Post
OK finally got the film, what are the time code(s) ranges you want me to check out? Not planning to watch the movie at this time since we'll probably watch all 3 in order over the coming weeks.
OK I found the part you mean around 51:00

However last night even with sound deadened room, -35 to -30 with people sleeping was way too loud. I'm not even sure I'll have the guts to try -25 or -20, it's already way too loud.

That passage has an oscillating sound from the aircraft, kind of a wild flutter that I can see being a stressor.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2012, 08:52 AM   #64
victortubeman victortubeman is offline
Active Member
 
Mar 2012
Sydney Australia
14
1680
598
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neild View Post
Well maybe. But how come the protection code isn't coming up then?
He has checked his cables,he needs to check speaker levels are all equal and what levels he is listening at from ref 75db (-30db).

With a system , all speakers set to small and sub(s) used an AVR should have no trouble.If he uses the AVR for his subs too then that is the problem.

In my system with 600 plus bluray,s my amps for front right/left have output meters most have peaks of 5 watts only and 1 ,terminator salvation peaked at 10watts.This system(big one) all speakers small , 4 subs x over is 80hz. Levels are -10db from ref 75db.

Centre speaker may use more power,but not sure what it is and I have far more power than most .(my centre has 1500watts) if needed.

This week I,ll watch it on my other small system and 2 subs .
Martin logan prodigy,centre logos,rear request,SUBS,2 Revel b15 , and 2 x Sgr Mal X 18inch 125lt.
AMPS,Audio Research Reference 600mkIII mono blocks left,right (5.1),Krell theatre amp standard (mono centre),bat vk-500 (rears),peavey cs 4080hz
PRE AMPS,proceed avp,bat vk-5 tube,copland cva306 6 channel tube ,SVS ASeq1.
M.L. No 31.5,dac, jadis js2mkII,Jvc rs2/hd-100 ,110inch 16:9 screen.2 chan,Avantgarde Duo Front left,right. PRE AMP,Concert Fidelity CF-080LSX Wavelength audio napoleon silver.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 04:17 AM   #65
Neild Neild is offline
Special Member
 
Jan 2011
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by victortubeman View Post
He has checked his cables,he needs to check speaker levels are all equal and what levels he is listening at from ref 75db (-30db).

With a system , all speakers set to small and sub(s) used an AVR should have no trouble.If he uses the AVR for his subs too then that is the problem.

In my system with 600 plus bluray,s my amps for front right/left have output meters most have peaks of 5 watts only and 1 ,terminator salvation peaked at 10watts.This system(big one) all speakers small , 4 subs x over is 80hz. Levels are -10db from ref 75db.

Centre speaker may use more power,but not sure what it is and I have far more power than most .(my centre has 1500watts) if needed.

This week I,ll watch it on my other small system and 2 subs .
Hi Victor, that specific receiver has an error code that comes up in the event of a overload, and that code is not coming up. If it were, we could probably say case closed, but it's not.

I think he already said he's dialed in 75 db reference. Not sure what you mean about using the AVR for the subs, I don't think the receiver is powering the subwoofers if that's what you mean. The receiver would supply the cutoffs and send low levels to outboard individually powered subs.

I will say that the specific sound effect in the movie is pretty wild in how it fluctuates and strobes. Knowing how components of all kinds respond to sloping and accelerating demands, I can see this being a real stress test on any gear.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 04:59 AM   #66
victortubeman victortubeman is offline
Active Member
 
Mar 2012
Sydney Australia
14
1680
598
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neild View Post
Hi Victor, that specific receiver has an error code that comes up in the event of a overload, and that code is not coming up. If it were, we could probably say case closed, but it's not.

I think he already said he's dialed in 75 db reference. Not sure what you mean about using the AVR for the subs, I don't think the receiver is powering the subwoofers if that's what you mean. The receiver would supply the cutoffs and send low levels to outboard individually powered subs.

I will say that the specific sound effect in the movie is pretty wild in how it fluctuates and strobes. Knowing how components of all kinds respond to sloping and accelerating demands, I can see this being a real stress test on any gear.
Hi Neil,

With the subs,yes is the avr is running the subs (passive)?

This movie is filtered at 20hz,30hz and up to 80hz nothing special.90hz to 100hz there is some output which may cause some systems problems.

Most problems are incorrect setup(levels too high,low).Smaller subs which overload etc.With more info about his system,set up and how amps etc are pluged in we can find the problem.

Cheers.
Martin logan prodigy,centre logos,rear request,SUBS,2 Revel b15 , and 2 x Sgr Mal X 18inch 125lt.
AMPS,Audio Research Reference 600mkIII mono blocks left,right (5.1),Krell theatre amp standard (mono centre),bat vk-500 (rears),peavey cs 4080hz
PRE AMPS,proceed avp,bat vk-5 tube,copland cva306 6 channel tube ,SVS ASeq1.
M.L. No 31.5,dac, jadis js2mkII,Jvc rs2/hd-100 ,110inch 16:9 screen.2 chan,Avantgarde Duo Front left,right. PRE AMP,Concert Fidelity CF-080LSX Wavelength audio napoleon silver.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 09:57 PM   #67
lghaze42 lghaze42 is offline
Senior Member
 
lghaze42's Avatar
 
Dec 2007
Princeton West Virginia
23
Send a message via Yahoo to lghaze42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by victortubeman View Post
Hi Neil,

With the subs,yes is the avr is running the subs (passive)?

This movie is filtered at 20hz,30hz and up to 80hz nothing special.90hz to 100hz there is some output which may cause some systems problems.

Most problems are incorrect setup(levels too high,low).Smaller subs which overload etc.With more info about his system,set up and how amps etc are pluged in we can find the problem.

Cheers.
The subs are Technics THX certified with two 8" subs with 10" passive radiators, each with it's own 120 watt amp.I have not calibrated the system manually but have used the auto set up mic feature.As said before I ended up turning the center down a few db's because on two other movies there were brief cut outs.This was noted in an online review of the center being a little high.I have a decibel meter but since I can't adjust the left and right to -75 to match the other speakers I used the auto feature.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 12:44 AM   #68
Neild Neild is offline
Special Member
 
Jan 2011
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by victortubeman View Post
This movie is filtered at 20hz,30hz and up to 80hz nothing special.90hz to 100hz there is some output which may cause some systems problems.

Most problems are incorrect setup(levels too high,low).Smaller subs which overload etc.With more info about his system,set up and how amps etc are pluged in we can find the problem.
Are you looking at a scan of the audio track or something? What is in the 90-100 Hz that causes problems?
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 09:46 AM   #69
victortubeman victortubeman is offline
Active Member
 
Mar 2012
Sydney Australia
14
1680
598
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by lghaze42 View Post
The subs are Technics THX certified with two 8" subs with 10" passive radiators, each with it's own 120 watt amp.I have not calibrated the system manually but have used the auto set up mic feature.As said before I ended up turning the center down a few db's because on two other movies there were brief cut outs.This was noted in an online review of the center being a little high.I have a decibel meter but since I can't adjust the left and right to -75 to match the other speakers I used the auto feature.
Hi,
Ok that helps subs are active,system set with all speakers small.

The cross over(x over) is it 80hz?

Neil, from Avs forum , bass master thread post 6477.audio graph DKR.
Bass output at -5db to 0db above 80hz which is above x over and may stress systems amp. Most speakers lack output from 100hz to 250hz depending on type etc.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/th...cy-charts/6450
Martin logan prodigy,centre logos,rear request,SUBS,2 Revel b15 , and 2 x Sgr Mal X 18inch 125lt.
AMPS,Audio Research Reference 600mkIII mono blocks left,right (5.1),Krell theatre amp standard (mono centre),bat vk-500 (rears),peavey cs 4080hz
PRE AMPS,proceed avp,bat vk-5 tube,copland cva306 6 channel tube ,SVS ASeq1.
M.L. No 31.5,dac, jadis js2mkII,Jvc rs2/hd-100 ,110inch 16:9 screen.2 chan,Avantgarde Duo Front left,right. PRE AMP,Concert Fidelity CF-080LSX Wavelength audio napoleon silver.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 02:37 PM   #70
lghaze42 lghaze42 is offline
Senior Member
 
lghaze42's Avatar
 
Dec 2007
Princeton West Virginia
23
Send a message via Yahoo to lghaze42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by victortubeman View Post
Hi,
Ok that helps subs are active,system set with all speakers small.

The cross over(x over) is it 80hz?

Neil, from Avs forum , bass master thread post 6477.audio graph DKR.
Bass output at -5db to 0db above 80hz which is above x over and may stress systems amp. Most speakers lack output from 100hz to 250hz depending on type etc.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/th...cy-charts/6450
yes on both.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 10:34 PM   #71
victortubeman victortubeman is offline
Active Member
 
Mar 2012
Sydney Australia
14
1680
598
Cool

Hi Ighaze42,

I,ve watched DKR on my small HT now ,denon Avr, 5 definitive technology mythos speakers and 2 genesis 900 subs.speakers all set small x over 80hz.

Watched at -8db from Ref , and the scenes mentioned had no problem with audio.So a normal system should handle this soundtrack under Ref levels.

Is anything plugged in with your Avr ?(power point) or on the same circuit etc.
Martin logan prodigy,centre logos,rear request,SUBS,2 Revel b15 , and 2 x Sgr Mal X 18inch 125lt.
AMPS,Audio Research Reference 600mkIII mono blocks left,right (5.1),Krell theatre amp standard (mono centre),bat vk-500 (rears),peavey cs 4080hz
PRE AMPS,proceed avp,bat vk-5 tube,copland cva306 6 channel tube ,SVS ASeq1.
M.L. No 31.5,dac, jadis js2mkII,Jvc rs2/hd-100 ,110inch 16:9 screen.2 chan,Avantgarde Duo Front left,right. PRE AMP,Concert Fidelity CF-080LSX Wavelength audio napoleon silver.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 10:37 PM   #72
-DLS- -DLS- is offline
Special Member
 
-DLS-'s Avatar
 
Apr 2008
CANADA
24
-
Default

I had this problem with a few loud scenes with my old Onkyo receiver. All the wires/connections were good so I brought it in an they found a hairline crack in the heat sink. They had it replaced and problem was solved. They must have inspected it real good or know where to look cuz it was hard to notice when they showed me. I had to look real close.
D
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 12:22 AM   #73
Neild Neild is offline
Special Member
 
Jan 2011
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by victortubeman View Post
Hi,
Ok that helps subs are active,system set with all speakers small.

The cross over(x over) is it 80hz?

Neil, from Avs forum , bass master thread post 6477.audio graph DKR.
Bass output at -5db to 0db above 80hz which is above x over and may stress systems amp. Most speakers lack output from 100hz to 250hz depending on type etc.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/th...cy-charts/6450
Very interesting. From that I would take that there is more demanding amplification required down in the range just above the cutoff frequency, the hardest range to drive, and possibly stressing the receiver. It would then be interesting to change the crossover from 80 Hz to 100 Hz and see what happens.

From my understanding, that receiver does its cutoffs mathematically in digital so it could be an artifact of that exactness. It also has modes which can insert calculated high and low frequency harmonics, intended to 'restore' sounds in lossy codecs. I wonder if that's an issue too?

One thing I keep coming back to is the oscillating nature of the sound. It's been awhile but what I learned in the lab was that how quickly the loud noise ramps was critical to whether or not it would break the equipment :-)

We could wreck devices with a sharp turn to level X, but a slow turn could let us go to level X and well beyond. The lab prof said that's why you always always always turn your car stereo down before you shut off the car (to prevent the speakers from going 0 to 60 when you come back and start it)

Last edited by Neild; 01-01-2013 at 12:32 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 12:57 AM   #74
mrpink134 mrpink134 is offline
Power Member
 
mrpink134's Avatar
 
Jun 2008
551
5
1
Default

My system handled it no problem at 0! It was a awesome!

Here's what I have

Fronts: Monitor Audio RX8
Center: Monitor Audio RX Center
Surrounds: Monitor Audio RXFX
Sub: Ed A2 - 300
Receiver: Yamaha RX V1900
Amp: Emotiva XPA-3
TV: Samsung PN50C7000 Plasma
Blu Ray player: OPPO BDP-93
Fronts: Monitor Audio RX8
Center: Monitor Audio RX Center
Surrounds: Monitor Audio RXFX
Sub: Ed A2 - 300
Receiver: Yamaha RX V1900
Amp: Emotiva XPA-3
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 04:23 AM   #75
Canada Canada is offline
Blu-ray Ninja
 
Canada's Avatar
 
Mar 2007
Victoria, BC
17
403
11
39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpink134 View Post
My system handled it no problem at 0! It was a awesome!

Here's what I have

Fronts: Monitor Audio RX8
Center: Monitor Audio RX Center
Surrounds: Monitor Audio RXFX
Sub: Ed A2 - 300
Receiver: Yamaha RX V1900
Amp: Emotiva XPA-3
Yeah but you have an external amp that has 200 per channel for the Front L&R and the Center.
Home Theater Geeks Overcome Bond quotes USA the Greatest country in the world? Immigrant Song Hall of the Mountain King Spring Breakers Mulholland Drive
"Your intellect may be confused," he once wrote, "but your emotions will never lie to you." Roger Ebert Physical media forever!
Front Speakers B&W 683 Center B&W HTM61 surrounds B&W 685
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 04:24 AM   #76
mrpink134 mrpink134 is offline
Power Member
 
mrpink134's Avatar
 
Jun 2008
551
5
1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada View Post
Yeah but you have an external amp that has 200 per channel for the Front L&R and the Center.
ya I do and it was loud as hell and I had the whole house rocking
TV: Samsung PN50C7000 Plasma
Blu Ray player: OPPO BDP-93
Fronts: Monitor Audio RX8
Center: Monitor Audio RX Center
Surrounds: Monitor Audio RXFX
Sub: Ed A2 - 300
Receiver: Yamaha RX V1900
Amp: Emotiva XPA-3
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 10:20 PM   #77
victortubeman victortubeman is offline
Active Member
 
Mar 2012
Sydney Australia
14
1680
598
Cool

Hi Ighaze,

What audio settings that are additional to the hd audio are you using if any?Is there EQ used on your Pana Avr?
Try turning off non essential audio settings for decoding HD audio and then playing scenes from movie.

If the problem persists than try upping x over to 100hz(good idea Neil) and try scenes again.This may help if it doesn't then get Avr checked as class d amps may now be out of manufacturer,s specs.

It also maybe normal for this Avr and external amps maybe needed if amp tech finds nothing wrong.
Martin logan prodigy,centre logos,rear request,SUBS,2 Revel b15 , and 2 x Sgr Mal X 18inch 125lt.
AMPS,Audio Research Reference 600mkIII mono blocks left,right (5.1),Krell theatre amp standard (mono centre),bat vk-500 (rears),peavey cs 4080hz
PRE AMPS,proceed avp,bat vk-5 tube,copland cva306 6 channel tube ,SVS ASeq1.
M.L. No 31.5,dac, jadis js2mkII,Jvc rs2/hd-100 ,110inch 16:9 screen.2 chan,Avantgarde Duo Front left,right. PRE AMP,Concert Fidelity CF-080LSX Wavelength audio napoleon silver.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 11:28 PM   #78
lghaze42 lghaze42 is offline
Senior Member
 
lghaze42's Avatar
 
Dec 2007
Princeton West Virginia
23
Send a message via Yahoo to lghaze42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by victortubeman View Post
Hi Ighaze,

What audio settings that are additional to the hd audio are you using if any?Is there EQ used on your Pana Avr?
Try turning off non essential audio settings for decoding HD audio and then playing scenes from movie.

If the problem persists than try upping x over to 100hz(good idea Neil) and try scenes again.This may help if it doesn't then get Avr checked as class d amps may now be out of manufacturer,s specs.

It also maybe normal for this Avr and external amps maybe needed if amp tech finds nothing wrong.
Everything is set flat...no EQ at all.I think -20 might be diffeent on some receivers.I can't imagine me ever taking my volume to 0.When playing the scene at -25 or so it is loud enough.I guess I just need to adjust volume depending on how loud the soundtrack.Some movies I can watch at -20 and some are so loud I need to back it down to -25 or so. BTW...My name is Lghaze42...or larry if you prefer....thanks
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 11:29 PM   #79
lghaze42 lghaze42 is offline
Senior Member
 
lghaze42's Avatar
 
Dec 2007
Princeton West Virginia
23
Send a message via Yahoo to lghaze42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpink134 View Post
My system handled it no problem at 0! It was a awesome!

Here's what I have

Fronts: Monitor Audio RX8
Center: Monitor Audio RX Center
Surrounds: Monitor Audio RXFX
Sub: Ed A2 - 300
Receiver: Yamaha RX V1900
Amp: Emotiva XPA-3
I can't imagine ever going that high...I would be deaf by now.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 06:32 AM   #80
victortubeman victortubeman is offline
Active Member
 
Mar 2012
Sydney Australia
14
1680
598
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by lghaze42 View Post
Everything is set flat...no EQ at all.I think -20 might be diffeent on some receivers.I can't imagine me ever taking my volume to 0.When playing the scene at -25 or so it is loud enough.I guess I just need to adjust volume depending on how loud the soundtrack.Some movies I can watch at -20 and some are so loud I need to back it down to -25 or so. BTW...My name is Lghaze42...or larry if you prefer....thanks

Hi Larry,

On your system what is Ref level and what level do listen below Ref.

With test tones find what Ref 75db with -30db tones on your system. Note this number.On my Avr Ref is -28.Different systems Ref will be at different levels(numbers )
Martin logan prodigy,centre logos,rear request,SUBS,2 Revel b15 , and 2 x Sgr Mal X 18inch 125lt.
AMPS,Audio Research Reference 600mkIII mono blocks left,right (5.1),Krell theatre amp standard (mono centre),bat vk-500 (rears),peavey cs 4080hz
PRE AMPS,proceed avp,bat vk-5 tube,copland cva306 6 channel tube ,SVS ASeq1.
M.L. No 31.5,dac, jadis js2mkII,Jvc rs2/hd-100 ,110inch 16:9 screen.2 chan,Avantgarde Duo Front left,right. PRE AMP,Concert Fidelity CF-080LSX Wavelength audio napoleon silver.
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Audio Theory and Discussion


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:25 PM.