Rush finally in the R&R HoF

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by filmnut5

Purple for sure and whether you like them or not, KISS deserves entry. I like the band and their record sales don't lie.

Another vote for Purple, but that one will never happen. Purple are gods in Asia, were huge in Europe, but somehow never made it big in the US. And even though I'm a huge Purple fan, Ritchie Blackmore could be an a-hole and for that I can't see it happening. But the music is at the base of what would become Metal (just listen to early Rainbow also with Dio if you don't know them).

As for KISS, not a big fan, though I saw them live twice, great concerts, no doubt there and also believe that it's a travesty to have overlooked them so long.

It would be great if another HOF was created, this time by people with no agendas. But as long as Jann Wenner is there, no way in hell will it be a true R&R HOF.

[LMN8R]

SRV!

Also agree with Deep Purple, Yes and although I haven't listened to them much in the last 30+ years, Kiss as well.

[Blu-Meanie]

Long over due and well deserved. Congratulations Rush. A class act all the way.

[diskspinner]

Yeee... they have made it 100 years before 2112

[MiracleandWonder]

Originally Posted by GLaDOS

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame committee is just full of picky a-holes They always have a habit for snubbing bands like Yes and Deep Purple that helped form the popular music genres of today while letting people like Madonna and Public Enemy in.

Glad to see Rush finally get inducted though. It's about freaking time!

Public Enemy is not influential? They almost singlehandedly transformed people's perceptions of hip hop as a novelty genre to an actual serious artform. Plus, you love to snub and forget how popular PE were with rock audiences. I remember Spin covered them as much as they covered Jane's Addiction and Guns N' Roses back in the day. "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back" frequently pops up on greatest albums ever lists.

And I am not even a hip hop/Public Enemy fan, but still, why beat up on them and claim they didn't form popular music genres of today when they are one of the main reasons hip hop even made it out of the 1980s.

Any who do people keep bashing Madonna being in the HOF when they have no problem with all the one hit wonder girl group and Motown artists who are in the Hall. You seriously have to be deaf, dumb and blind to think The Staple Singers are more worthy of the HOF than Madonna.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by MiracleandWonder

Public Enemy is not influential? They almost singlehandedly transformed people's perceptions of hip hop as a novelty genre to an actual serious artform. Plus, you love to snub and forget how popular PE were with rock audiences. I remember Spin covered them as much as they covered Jane's Addiction and Guns N' Roses back in the day. "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back" frequently pops up on greatest albums ever lists.

And I am not even a hip hop/Public Enemy fan, but still, why beat up on them and claim they didn't form popular music genres of today when they are one of the main reasons hip hop even made it out of the 1980s.

Any who do people keep bashing Madonna being in the HOF when they have no problem with all the one hit wonder girl group and Motown artists who are in the Hall. You seriously have to be deaf, dumb and blind to think The Staple Singers are more worthy of the HOF than Madonna.

They just need to rename it the music hall of fame then. Not saying rap and hip hop doesn't deserve recognition but it's not rock and roll (and neither is Madonna). Sorry but the fact that LL ****ing Cool J resides in the hall while bands like KISS, Iron Maiden, Cheap Trick, Yes, and Deep Purple continue to be ignored is beyond stupid!

[diskspinner]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

They just need to rename it the music hall of fame then. Not saying rap and hip hop doesn't deserve recognition but it's not rock and roll (and neither is Madonna). Sorry but the fact that LL ****ing Cool J resides in the hall while bands like KISS, Iron Maiden, Cheap Trick, Yes, and Deep Purple continue to be ignored is beyond stupid!

Totally agree

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

They just need to rename it the music hall of fame then. Not saying rap and hip hop doesn't deserve recognition but it's not rock and roll (and neither is Madonna). Sorry but the fact that LL ****ing Cool J resides in the hall while bands like KISS, Iron Maiden, Cheap Trick, Yes, and Deep Purple continue to be ignored is beyond stupid!

LOL yes you basically are and they don't deserve it based off of what?

First LL ****ing Cool J isn't in the Hall yet. So you don't know what you are talking about there. Second LL ****ing Cool J and Madonna has done just as ****ing much in music as some bullshit hair band like Cheap Trick, yes, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple and a gimmick bank KISS. I wish you and others would stop crying and *****ing about every artist that doesn't jump on stage with a ****ing guitar like that is the end all be all of music. IT ISN'T! Broaden your mind for once and realize there is more to music than 'well if they didn't play an instrument there's no way it's real music and therefore they don't belong in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame' pretentious bullshit.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by bootsy

LOL yes you basically are and they don't deserve it based off of what?

First LL ****ing Cool J isn't in the Hall yet. So you don't know what you are talking about there. Second LL ****ing Cool J and Madonna has done just as ****ing much in music as some bullshit hair band like Cheap Trick, yes, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple and a gimmick bank KISS. I wish you and others would stop crying and *****ing about every artist that doesn't jump on stage with a ****ing guitar like that is the end all be all of music. IT ISN'T! Broaden your mind for once and realize there is more to music than 'well if they didn't play an instrument there's no way it's real music and therefore they don't belong in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame' pretentious bullshit.

First of all, I stand corrected on LL Cool J. He was nominated in 2011 and I thought he got in. However it doesn't diminish my point at all. He had no business being nominated in the first place! LL Cool J being in the ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame makes about as much sense as inducting Barry Bonds in the Football Hall of Fame. Why not? He's just as much of a pro athlete as Barry Sanders is, right? You're using the same justification for Madonna aren't you? And yes I DO think these artists deserve recognition. They're just in the wrong hall! If someone wants to go form the pop hall of fame or the rap/hip hop hall of fame, hey be my guest! Put ALL those fu*ers in there for all I care, complete with all the ceremonious recognition they deserve! However do not tell me that Public Enemy deserves to be in the ROCK hall of fame next to The Beatles or Led Zeppelin! It's a joke!

Also you tell me to broaden my mind when it comes to music, yet you calling bands like Cheap Trick, Deep Purple, and Yes as merely "hair bands" shows how much you should heed your own advice. As for KISS being merely a gimmick, well yes they do use gimmicks! So did Pink Floyd. So did Queen. So did every other rock band who dared to perform on stage with more than a microphone and guitar! Kiss is one of Americas all time biggest, most successful rock acts. They totally revolutionized the live show and how a band markets themselves. They have sold over 100 million albums! They have influenced countless artists over the years and despite several lineup changes, has managed to have successful longevity not seen by many other bands! I'm sorry but no one reaches that level of success just on gimmick alone! The fact that they are not in is a disgrace! It's not even debatable as to whether they should be there. Just as in sports, the stats don't lie!

[MiracleandWonder]

Originally Posted by bootsy

LOL yes you basically are and they don't deserve it based off of what?

First LL ****ing Cool J isn't in the Hall yet. So you don't know what you are talking about there. Second LL ****ing Cool J and Madonna has done just as ****ing much in music as some bullshit hair band like Cheap Trick, yes, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple and a gimmick bank KISS. I wish you and others would stop crying and *****ing about every artist that doesn't jump on stage with a ****ing guitar like that is the end all be all of music. IT ISN'T! Broaden your mind for once and realize there is more to music than 'well if they didn't play an instrument there's no way it's real music and therefore they don't belong in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame' pretentious bullshit.

I don't even like hip hop but I agree with you 100%

People can be so closedminded with the "if it doesn't rock, then it sucks" mentality. I even remember a poster on another forum who trashes the likes of David Bowie, U2 and Pink Floyd... why? It isn't hard rock therefore its garbage. Just like the overgrown fratboys who ***** at the local mainstream rock station for playing Mumford And Sons and Of Monsters And Men because they want it to still be 1999 and Korn and Limp Bizkit are still the biggest rock bands on the planet, even though I consider the nu-metal/rap rock period to be probably rock's ultimate nadir and gladly take this folk revival over it any day. But alas, they can't enjoy something that isn't heavy.

Public Enemy's "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back" ranks at #48 on Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums list. Personally I don't own a copy and have never listened to it, but the critical acclaim was there where I think it was a given these guys were obvious inductees. But then again, people have no problem with every other 1980's superstar act getting inducted in the Hall Of Fame (U2, Prince, Michael Jackson, REM, Metallica, Van Halen, Springsteen, Blondie, etc...) but then scream bloody murder when Madonna gets in, even though it would've been a gaping hole if every 1980's MTV superstar got inducted except for her.

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

First of all, I stand corrected on LL Cool J. He was nominated in 2011 and I thought he got in. However it doesn't diminish my point at all. He had no business being nominated in the first place! LL Cool J being in the ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame makes about as much sense as inducting Barry Bonds in the Football Hall of Fame. Why not? He's just as much of a pro athlete as Barry Sanders is, right? You're using the same justification for Madonna aren't you? And yes I DO think these artists deserve recognition. They're just in the wrong hall! If someone wants to go form the pop hall of fame or the rap/hip hop hall of fame, hey be my guest! Put ALL those fu*ers in there for all I care, complete with all the ceremonious recognition they deserve! However do not tell me that Public Enemy deserves to be in the ROCK hall of fame next to The Beatles or Led Zeppelin! It's a joke!

Also you tell me to broaden my mind when it comes to music, yet you calling bands like Cheap Trick, Deep Purple, and Yes as merely "hair bands" shows how much you should heed your own advice. As for KISS being merely a gimmick, well yes they do use gimmicks! So did Pink Floyd. So did Queen. So did every other rock band who dared to perform on stage with more than a microphone and guitar! Kiss is one of Americas all time biggest, most successful rock acts. They totally revolutionized the live show and how a band markets themselves. They have sold over 100 million albums! They have influenced countless artists over the years and despite several lineup changes, has managed to have successful longevity not seen by many other bands! I'm sorry but no one reaches that level of success just on gimmick alone! The fact that they are not in is a disgrace! It's not even debatable as to whether they should be there. Just as in sports, the stats don't lie!

This is why they need to rename it to the Music Hall of Fame. The name has never made sense. Look at the very first inductees they included Ray Charles, James Brown, The Everly Bros., Sam Cooke and Fats Domino among others. These artists don't scream Rock and Roll. The name is where the problem lies. It's an outdated name and needs to be changed. It really is the Music Hall of Fame but you have this narrow view because it's called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that it should include Rock and Roll artists. How lame would this hall of fame be if it included just Rock and Roll artists? I'll answer for you: VERY LAME.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by MiracleandWonder

I don't even like hip hop but I agree with you 100%

People can be so closedminded with the "if it doesn't rock, then it sucks" mentality. I even remember a poster on another forum who trashes the likes of David Bowie, U2 and Pink Floyd... why? It isn't hard rock therefore its garbage. Just like the overgrown fratboys who ***** at the local mainstream rock station for playing Mumford And Sons and Of Monsters And Men because they want it to still be 1999 and Korn and Limp Bizkit are still the biggest rock bands on the planet, even though I consider the nu-metal/rap rock period to be probably rock's ultimate nadir and gladly take this folk revival over it any day. But alas, they can't enjoy something that isn't heavy.

Public Enemy's "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back" ranks at #48 on Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums list. Personally I don't own a copy and have never listened to it, but the critical acclaim was there where I think it was a given these guys were obvious inductees. But then again, people have no problem with every other 1980's superstar act getting inducted in the Hall Of Fame (U2, Prince, Michael Jackson, REM, Metallica, Van Halen, Springsteen, Blondie, etc...) but then scream bloody murder when Madonna gets in, even though it would've been a gaping hole if every 1980's MTV superstar got inducted except for her.

You're missing the point. No one is saying they're not hall of fame artists. What I'm saying is they aren't rock and roll artists and its ridiculous to induct them over longer tenured, more deserving artists who DO fall into the rock category. My argument is that the hall either needs to rename it the music hall of fame and be done with it or create separate Halls that reflect each musical genre. I realize that all this boils down to semantics, however there is a principle here that's being grossly ignored. And that is the hall is passing over well deserved, longer tenured ROCK artists in favor of inducting artists who do not even fall into the rock genre. That is a fact!

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by bootsy

It really is the Music Hall of Fame but you have this narrow view because it's called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that it should include Rock and Roll artists. How lame would this hall of fame be if it included just Rock and Roll artists? I'll answer for you: VERY LAME.

How is it lame for the ROCK AND ROLL Hall of Fame to only include Rock and Roll artists? Do you see tennis players in the baseball hall of fame? Do you see NASCAR drivers in the football hall of fame? No you don't because they all reside in their own respected halls. Just because they're all sportsmen/athletes doesn't mean they belong in one another's HoF's.

I do agree with you that if the HoF is going to continue this trend they just need to rename it The Music Hall of Fame and be done with it. However that still doesn't solve the issue of so many we'll deserving artists that continue to get passed over.

[bootsy]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

How is it lame for the ROCK AND ROLL Hall of Fame to only include Rock and Roll artists? Do you see tennis players in the baseball hall of fame? Do you see NASCAR drivers in the football hall of fame? No you don't because they all reside in their own respected halls. Just because they're all sportsmen/athletes doesn't mean they belong in one another's HoF's.

I do agree with you that if the HoF is going to continue this trend they just need to rename it The Music Hall of Fame and be done with it. However that still doesn't solve the issue of so many we'll deserving artists that continue to get passed over.

It's lame because you are limiting yourself and putting yourself into a box. There aren't very many artists that are classified as Rock and Roll only. That term itself Rock and Roll is outdated. You're comparison to tennis players being in the baseball hall don't make sense either. Most music genres are derived from each other so there isn't this huge distinguish-ability between music genres. Playing baseball, basketball, tennis, football, golf there is a clear distinctions. Different rules, different elements so making that comparison isn't making much sense.

[MiracleandWonder]

Originally Posted by bootsy

This is why they need to rename it to the Music Hall of Fame. The name has never made sense. Look at the very first inductees they included Ray Charles, James Brown, The Everly Bros., Sam Cooke and Fats Domino among others. These artists don't scream Rock and Roll. The name is where the problem lies. It's an outdated name and needs to be changed. It really is the Music Hall of Fame but you have this narrow view because it's called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that it should include Rock and Roll artists. How lame would this hall of fame be if it included just Rock and Roll artists? I'll answer for you: VERY LAME.

That's why I find it funny. From day one they were inducting "non-rock" acts.

I think most people should just come to the conclusion that the HOF means the Rock era. Rock era starts in the mid-1950s or so. Which is why the likes of Sinatra, Bing Crosby, etc... aren't in there, but Ray Charles and the sort are. Public Enemy, Madonna, ABBA, Bee Gees, Michael Jackson, etc... were big names during the "rock era" even if their music wasn't rock, and if Ray Charles, Staple Singers, The O'Jays and the sort are deemed rock enough for the HOF, why not those?

[pentatonic]

One of my biggest pet peeves about the HoF is mostly because in reality it should be called the Rolling Stone's Hall of Fame or the Jann Wenner Hall of Fame. It is well known that, for instance, progressive rock is frown upon there and as much as everyone wants to believe, some great artists under that category will never be inducted as it doesn't have the Jann Wenner seal of approval.

Also, while I agree that many non-R&R artists are deserving of such recognition it is either time to revamp the HoF into a wider range name or, ideally have a more neutral HoF. It is semantics and most modern music has their roots actually way back to guys like Robert Johnson anyways.

But the fact remains, bands like Deep Purple who have paved the way to a whole genre are being past for bands, that while not less deserving, shouldn't pass over these guys.

[MiracleandWonder]

Hard rock fans complain the loudest, but I think alternative fans have earned the right to ***** louder.

Kiss and Deep Purple aren't in yet... but Zeppelin, AC/DC, Aerosmith, Van Halen, Alice Cooper, Rush, Black Sabbath, Metallica and Guns N' Roses are all in. Maybe they weren't all first year inductees, but as a whole I would say that is a pretty strong batting average. And while Kiss and Purple haven't gotten in yet, they've made the ballot in the past.

Compare this to how REM is the only post-punk alternative group in the HOF and of course they are a US based one. The Smiths, The Cure, Joy Division, Echo and The Bunnymen, Depeche Mode, Nick Cave, etc.... have not even made the ballots yet and they've all been eligible for a few years already. But they were 1. UK based (much like how Iron Maiden and Judas Priest haven't gotten in the ballot for hard rock even though many of their US contemporaries have gotten in) and 2. bigger in the UK than the US means they've been totally ignored. The Smiths never quite "won" America, but they continue to gain new fans every year despite the fact they broke up 25 years ago and they have turned into the "Hell freezes over" reunion that people clamor for (much like The Police and Van Halen with Roth before those happened). Why haven't they at least made the ballot in the four years since they became eligible even though they have influenced countless alternative groups that followed. Hard rock is not the black sheep of the HOF as most of the big names have gotten inducted, its 1980's college rock.

[MiracleandWonder]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

You're missing the point. No one is saying they're not hall of fame artists. What I'm saying is they aren't rock and roll artists and its ridiculous to induct them over longer tendered, more deserving artists who DO fall into the rock category. My argument is that the hall either needs to rename it the music hall of fame and be done with it or create separate Halls that reflect each musical genre. I realize that all this boils down to semantics, however there is a principle here that's being grossly ignored. And that is the hall is passing over well deserved, longer tendered ROCK artists in favor of inducting artists who do not even fall into the rock genre. That is a fact!

I understand your point, but the fact remains that the HOF since 1986 has been inducting r&b, country and pop acts, but nobody seemed to really mind that until it started incorporating more "modern" genres of music. People foam at the mouth at the idea of Donna Summer (who even did a few rock albums in the 80s and did a song with Springsteen), Public Enemy and ABBA defiling their precious HOF for rockers, but nobody bats an eye or cares that Etta James, The O'Jays and Dinah Washington are in the HOF. Somehow it's A-OK for "old" artists to get in, but suddenly anyone who emerged to fame after 1975 or so that gets into the HOF has to be "rock" for some reason. You can't tell me that Etta James somehow "rocks" more than Madonna or Donna Summer. But yet nobody cares about her induction, she's from the 60's so automatically she deserves to be in.

The main issue I have with people who gripe about the HOF selections is that they only gripe when it comes to artists who are more modern that don't fit "rock and roll" while making excuses about why The Staple Singers somehow are more rock and fitting than ABBA, when they really weren't.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by MiracleandWonder

I understand your point, but the fact remains that the HOF since 1986 has been inducting r&b, country and pop acts, but nobody seemed to really mind that until it started incorporating more "modern" genres of music. People foam at the mouth at the idea of Donna Summer (who even did a few rock albums in the 80s and did a song with Springsteen), Public Enemy and ABBA defiling their precious HOF for rockers, but nobody bats an eye or cares that Etta James, The O'Jays and Dinah Washington are in the HOF. Somehow it's A-OK for "old" artists to get in, but suddenly anyone who emerged to fame after 1975 or so that gets into the HOF has to be "rock" for some reason. You can't tell me that Etta James somehow "rocks" more than Madonna or Donna Summer. But yet nobody cares about her induction, she's from the 60's so automatically she deserves to be in.

The main issue I have with people who gripe about the HOF selections is that they only gripe when it comes to artists who are more modern that don't fit "rock and roll" while making excuses about why The Staple Singers somehow are more rock and fitting than ABBA, when they really weren't.

That's a very fair point! I'm guessing that the reason that most see no problem with inducting the likes of Etta James, Ray Charles, James Brown, etc is because that early Motown sound had such a HUGE impact on the evolution of rock and roll. The same reason why Robert Johnson and BB King are in the hall. The blues had just as profound of an impact. The country artists that are there such as Johnny Cash are in because they transcended genres. Plus, lets not kid ourselves here. Those artists are bonafide legends and are going to be more widely accepted over someone like Public Enemy.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by pentatonic

One of my biggest pet peeves about the HoF is mostly because in reality it should be called the Rolling Stone's Hall of Fame or the Jann Wenner Hall of Fame. It is well known that, for instance, progressive rock is frown upon there and as much as everyone wants to believe, some great artists under that category will never be inducted as it doesn't have the Jann Wenner seal of approval.

Also, while I agree that many non-R&R artists are deserving of such recognition it is either time to revamp the HoF into a wider range name or, ideally have a more neutral HoF. It is semantics and most modern music has their roots actually way back to guys like Robert Johnson anyways.

But the fact remains, bands like Deep Purple who have paved the way to a whole genre are being past for bands, that while not less deserving, shouldn't pass over these guys.

Couldn't have said it better. Make no mistake about it, Jann Wenner DOES have an axe to grind here. It's the same reason why you'll never see bands like Boston, Foreigner, Bad Company, and Journey in the hall. They were unfairly branded as "corporate rock" despite their contributions.