Forget 3D. Your dream TV should be 4K

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It's official: 3D is dead | The Verge

Originally Posted by The Verge

It's official: 3D is dead

The tech industry's annual hot air balloon show is gone, and the world's a better place for it.

There's something about 2013's Consumer Electronics Show that's different from every other iteration this decade. You might not realize it immediately, for it's marked by the absence rather than the arrival of a new technology, but it's there and we're all sensing it on a deep, subconscious level. And it feels good.

3D is gone.

You no longer need to pick up a pair of polarizing glasses on your way into a big company's press conference. There are no more 60-foot posters with people exploding out of flatscreen televisions. The super glitzy marketing videos now relate to the far more tangible benefits of higher resolutions, curved displays, and the beauty of OLED. The show floor space dedicated to three-dimensional imagery has been decimated, relegating a dubious technology to its proper position as a sideshow rather than a leading cause to upgrade your TV.

It's a weird and ironic dichotomy. On the one hand, 3D has become ubiquitous enough in televisions that people are unwittingly buying it when opting for a high-end new HDTV to fill their living room void — yet on the other, every big TV maker at CES has waved a clear white flag on trying to sell 3D TV as an important feature. Sony CEO Kaz Hirai spent more time during his keynote talking about professional-grade Sony cameras attracting M. Night Shyamalan over to digital recording than he did talking up 3D. In fact, I'm not sure he mentioned 3D once. Here are some quotes from our live blogs covering the big players' pre-CES events this year:

That's it, a footnote tacked onto the end of LG's expansive TV portfolio refresh. Samsung mentioned 2D-to-3D conversion in passing, and admittedly Netflix is getting involved in a limited fashion with 3D streaming, but the technology that once defined CES is now basically an embarrassing vestige of overheated ambitions of the past.

The best way to summarize the demise of 3D TV as a technology that companies and consumers care about is by noting that even Qualcomm didn't bother to namedrop it. The chipmaker's utterly absurd CES keynote, which featured every bad pun, cliché, gimmick, and trope of the electronics industry, didn't feel the need to check off 3D.

As a technology, you're not dead when everybody hates and derides you. Neither will limited commercial sales kill off your chances. But indifference of the kind signalled by this year's CES is the truest symptom of a terminal trajectory.

The 3D TV won its tortured, protracted war — you can buy a 3D TV anywhere and at any time — and nobody could care less.

[RocShemp]

"And nobody could care less"? The writer of that article cared enough that you can practically see him doing cartwheels while repeatedly chanting "3D is dead!" Sorry but, once again, it's not dead. It's just another standard feature.

[keb33509]

Why do people keep posting that biased opinion article? I guess some people have nothing better to do than try to get a rise or scare out of us. Well, I'm not worried about 3D. I've already got enough films to last a lifetime, even if it ever does go. It won't, but I'm just saying

[RocShemp]

Originally Posted by keb33509

Why do people keep posting that biased opinion article? I guess some people have nothing better to do than try to get a rise or scare out of us. Well, I'm not worried about 3D. I've already got enough films to last a lifetime, even if it ever does go. It won't, but I'm just saying

I actually have enough 3D discs to keep me happy once I eventually get a 3D TV. And if it somehow goes (it won't), said TV's will be really cheap.

[Operation Swordfish]

I just can't possibly understand how these 3D is dead or dyeing articles keep popping up. 3D TV sales and Blu-Ray 3D sales are at an all-time high. And there are so many guaranteed 3D blockbusters slated for years to come such as Avatar 2 & 3 and they've already announced they are shooting all the new upcoming Star Wars movies in 3D. That gives you 3D movies until 2021 at the least. The only reason that 3D wasn't huge at this years CES is because its not brand new technology. 4K is the newest big thing, and all 4K TV's that I can think of already have 3D. 3D is just becoming a standard feature people, its not going anywhere.

If anything is going anywhere its 4K. The technology is barely even out and it will be killed by 8K.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-qK6-ic9Nk&feature=player_embedded

[keb33509]

Eh, 8k is overkill. 4k will be the next consumer resolution for at least 10+ years. There really isn't even a need for 4k under 55" screens, but I still want it for the much larger screens.

[Operation Swordfish]

Originally Posted by keb33509

Eh, 8k is overkill. 4k will be the next consumer resolution for at least 10+ years. There really isn't even a need for 4k under 55" screens, but I still want it for the much larger screens.

I completely agree. I was just trying to make a point that picture quality technology will always change and there will always be a "next big thing". All of these 3D naysayers have been all over this 4K thing likes its the greatest thing since sliced bread and that must prove that 3D is dead. Picture quality will eventually advance to a point that the human eye will absolutely not be able to tell the difference between whatever the current technology happens to be and the next step in technology.

Another big problem is that people don't like to embrace brand new technology right away. When HDTV came out there were so many stubborn people who said this thing will never last and thought they would never upgrade. Now its almost impossible to find anyone that doesn't have at least one HDTV. I believe 3D will just eventually become integrated into all TV sets. Especially a glasses-free kind. If it does that should shut the 3D naysayers up for good.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by RocShemp

"And nobody could care less"? The writer of that article cared enough that you can practically see him doing cartwheels while repeatedly chanting "3D is dead!" Sorry but, once again, it's not dead. It's just another standard feature.

Standard, and generally unused. Like any niche, it has its proponents, who will still get some product to watch, most of which will be conversions from 2D.

I'm still wondering when any of my friends, relatives, neighbors, co-workers, or just about anybody will begin using 3-D, and it hasn't happened yet.

• Those young enough to have children don't want them using the glasses for health reasons, or just non-interest (most kids don't give a hoot what the cartoon looks like in 3-D)
• They also don't want to buy 3-D glasses for their kids, and their friends kids, worrying about charging them, or just watching them get busted.
• Most women don't like it at all due to the glasses. Most women-friendly movies aren't in 3-D, and getting them to sit through Kung-Fu Panda or Piranha 3DD just isn't going to work. Rom-Coms and dramas are not in 3-D.
• Anyone who bought a TV before 2010 is strictly out of the market, and has to be motivated by that one feature to make a very serious investment for most households.
• Broadcast and cable services have fallen flat in delivering 3-D, either overcharging for it, or not offering it at all. No network series is in 3-D, nor are sporting events.
• All of the "blockbusters" that show in theaters are geared towards the audience that is not buying thousands of dollars at a pop for televisions and stereos for their homes - so theater revenues suckered a lot of producers into thinking they could get long-term residual revenues out of these flicks. Didn't happen. Ask the guys that made Green Lantern and Green Hornet.

All of these are marketing hurdles, that have nothing to do with 3-D being a nice thing to have, or whatever. It just isn't getting any real movement among the public. There's always the desperate cry of "3-D sales are better than ever!" and my favorite, "You don't know it, but if you bought a television recently, you've already adopted it."

Better than ever, as a quantifiable number, it small beans indeed. Rebooting the television, buying the glasses, a new player (guess what - most grownups don't buy PS3 game machines), and a new receiver, is just not what the general public will do.

The industry is about money. Looking for good news about 3-D is fine, but it's not out there. It's main downfall has been the industry decision to build the technology so that would not work with legacy 1080i or 1080p screens - a simple thing to do, but it wouldn't sell new televisions and players. That one error doomed the medium from the start, and the colossal yawn that has greeted 3-D home electronics is the proof.

It's not going away, it's just not going to move ahead. Perhaps a dedicated 4K version of 3-D may crop up, but 4K needs years to get market penetration, and again, they may try to make a special version of 3-D that won't work on early sets.

It's about money, not what proponents want, and happy talk and incredulous stares don't mean company revenues. It's just going to sit there, like kidney pie at a Christmas party, and that's just fine for the kidney pie fans, wherever they are.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Operation Swordfish

Now its almost impossible to find anyone that doesn't have at least one HDTV. I believe 3D will just eventually become integrated into all TV sets. Especially a glasses-free kind. If it does that should shut the 3D naysayers up for good.

Know anybody that owns a glasses-free 3-D TV? There might be one at CES, but there's no crowd around it. When do you expect the naysayers to shut up?

The only naysayers that matter are the bean-counters in the boardroom, and they're not funding a lot of glasses-free TV commercials, I notice.

You can't hear them, or their money, saying very much.

[RocShemp]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Standard, and generally unused. Like any niche, it has its proponents, who will still get some product to watch, most of which will be conversions from 2D.

I'm still wondering when any of my friends, relatives, neighbors, co-workers, or just about anybody will begin using 3-D, and it hasn't happened yet.

• Those young enough to have children don't want them using the glasses for health reasons, or just non-interest (most kids don't give a hoot what the cartoon looks like in 3-D)
• They also don't want to buy 3-D glasses for their kids, and their friends kids, worrying about charging them, or just watching them get busted.
• Most women don't like it at all due to the glasses. Most women-friendly movies aren't in 3-D, and getting them to sit through Kung-Fu Panda or Piranha 3DD just isn't going to work. Rom-Coms and dramas are not in 3-D.
• Anyone who bought a TV before 2010 is strictly out of the market, and has to be motivated by that one feature to make a very serious investment for most households.
• Broadcast and cable services have fallen flat in delivering 3-D, either overcharging for it, or not offering it at all. No network series is in 3-D, nor are sporting events.
• All of the "blockbusters" that show in theaters are geared towards the audience that is not buying thousands of dollars at a pop for televisions and stereos for their homes - so theater revenues suckered a lot of producers into thinking they could get long-term residual revenues out of these flicks. Didn't happen. Ask the guys that made Green Lantern and Green Hornet.

All of these are marketing hurdles, that have nothing to do with 3-D being a nice thing to have, or whatever. It just isn't getting any real movement among the public. There's always the desperate cry of "3-D sales are better than ever!" and my favorite, "You don't know it, but if you bought a television recently, you've already adopted it."

Better than ever, as a quantifiable number, it small beans indeed. Rebooting the television, buying the glasses, a new player (guess what - most grownups don't buy PS3 game machines), and a new receiver, is just not what the general public will do.

The industry is about money. Looking for good news about 3-D is fine, but it's not out there. It's main downfall has been the industry decision to build the technology so that would not work with legacy 1080i or 1080p screens - a simple thing to do, but it wouldn't sell new televisions and players. That one error doomed the medium from the start, and the colossal yawn that has greeted 3-D home electronics is the proof.

It's not going away, it's just not going to move ahead. Perhaps a dedicated 4K version of 3-D may crop up, but 4K needs years to get market penetration, and again, they may try to make a special version of 3-D that won't work on early sets.

It's about money, not what proponents want, and happy talk and incredulous stares don't mean company revenues. It's just going to sit there, like kidney pie at a Christmas party, and that's just fine for the kidney pie fans, wherever they are.

I get where you're going with this and agree it is a niche product. Heck, so is BD when you think about it. But I don't see the point in celebrating its demise. If you don't like it, don't use it. Theaters overcharging for 3D? Whatch it in 2D. No 2D showing? Wait to rent the movie. Those who like 3D can do the opposite.

I like 3D but wont chastise anyone who doesn't. I also don't celebrate if 3D makes some huge splash.

Basically, 3D isn't dead but I do acknowledge it's not a huge selling point nor a game changer. But, much like how most people (like myself) have 5.2 setups and I wouldn't go around complaining about 7.1 audio being available, I see no point in complaining about 3D just because a person might have no interest in said option.

[Will21st]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Standard, and generally unused. Like any niche, it has its proponents, who will still get some product to watch, most of which will be conversions from 2D.

Most of what you write and say here is conjecture and hearsay..... 3D is doing very well and the numbers support it..... there's lots of positive news for 3D. Lots of people enjoy 3D.

[Operation Swordfish]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Know anybody that owns a glasses-free 3-D TV? There might be one at CES, but there's no crowd around it. When do you expect the naysayers to shut up?

The only naysayers that matter are the bean-counters in the boardroom, and they're not funding a lot of glasses-free TV commercials, I notice.

You can't hear them, or their money, saying very much.

The glasses-free sets are not yet for sale in the U.S. as far as I know, but they are in other parts of the world. They have still yet to be perfected as there are dead spots where you might sit that will lose the 3D image entirely. I assume they are waiting to perfect the technology before releasing it in the U.S. I have also read that Spielberg has purchased a company that is working on a glasses-free 3D setup as well. I'd say by the time 4K is ready to start rolling out into the mainstream the glasses-free 3D probably will too.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Will21st

Most of what you write and say here is conjecture and hearsay..... 3D is doing very well and the numbers support it..... there's lots of positive news for 3D. Lots of people enjoy 3D.

"Doing very well" is not a quantifiable number, like a statistical market share, or a dollar figure compared to another dollar figure. It feels good to say it, but it doesn't mean much.

Fans get to use it, which is fine. To make it grow, it needed to include the legacy market. A very firm decision to abandon 1080p and 1080i televisions, pre-2010, have adoption stuck in glue.

That's just how it is.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by RocShemp

I get where you're going with this and agree it is a niche product. Heck, so is BD when you think about it. But I don't see the point in celebrating its demise. If you don't like it, don't use it. Theaters overcharging for 3D? Whatch it in 2D. No 2D showing? Wait to rent the movie. Those who like 3D can do the opposite.

It's not a matter of liking it, or not liking it. I've only seen a couple of examples of it being done well, which simply means it CAN be done well, and just doesn't happen very often.

The really bad news is that most consumers feel that way, and don't make any effort to adopt it. I know you're addressing me alone, but you may as well address the madding crowd - they aren't much interested.

Originally Posted by RocShemp

I like 3D but wont chastise anyone who doesn't. I also don't celebrate if 3D makes some huge splash.

Perhaps you have me confused with someone else. I'm not chastising anyone for liking 3-D, nor am I celebrating or predicting its demise. I would prefer the feature be a successful option, but it is not a force of nature; it is a corporate exercise, built and directed with a certain goal (everybody reboots their high-definition TV setups), and it has not been a success. To put it charitably.

It's clunky, with the glasses, it's expensive, in a time when people are very careful how they spend cash, and it is of quite variable quality. Not to mention the questions about whether children should use it, with the majority of offerings being cartoons.

Originally Posted by RocShemp

Basically, 3D isn't dead but I do acknowledge it's not a huge selling point nor a game changer. But, much like how most people (like myself) have 5.2 setups and I wouldn't go around complaining about 7.1 audio being available, I see no point in complaining about 3D just because a person might have no interest in said option.

If you are defending 3-D (I'm not sure, but it looks like you are), please do so against an attacker. I'm not complaining - I don't make revenue off the product, didn't buy into it, and can wait until the problems it has are solved.

It's pretty clear that with 4K on the verge of going mainstream, 3-D is going to be seen by the general public as yesterday's technology. They will look for 4K versions of the product. I've always seen this version of 3-D as a desperation move by the manufacturers and producers, at a very bad time to pull such stunts, and the current woes of the manufacturers have shown this to be true. They're all worried sick that they may not exist in three years.

The failure of 3-D to ignite a firestorm of electronics purchases, despite all the arm-waving about a mediocre cartoon like Avatar, must have been a crushing blow. It was such a clever move to make legacy televisions totally incompatible with 3-D (a joke - any set with an orbiting pixel anti-burn feature proves it's just an electronic trick) orphaned the medium out of the box.

It's not the 3-D medium I hold in contempt - it's the way it was presented to the public, in a way that has proved to be one of the classic failures in marketing. By making the technology so limiting, they crushed interest and raised suspicions on the part of consumers. This started with the HD-DVD debacle, making people wonder...then 3-D, making them contemptuous (I'm not speaking just for myself, mind you), and now, 4K, less than three years later, seems to be confirming their suspicions.

Some people bought in, and they seem to be very defensive about it. It doesn't matter to me. If they like it, why should I care? I'm looking at adoption of technology, and it's limited, confused about active electric glasses or passive glasses or no glasses, whether kids should use it, all these things...and I just shake my head.

[Steedeel]

In the modern age, people are obsessed with new formats killing other formats and rarely see the wood for the trees. Too many crappy blogs and knee jerk journalists in my opinion. 3D is established now. It will be included in TV sets going forward and also 4k may cement its place as a nice feature to have. Some films look great such as Prometheus and Avatar, while others look like crap. It is all down to how the technology is exploited.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

"Doing very well" is not a quantifiable number, like a statistical market share, or a dollar figure compared to another dollar figure. It feels good to say it, but it doesn't mean much.

how about for Prometheus 3D was 25% of sales, 2D BD was 51% and DVD was only 24%?
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/top...k-ended-101412

or for avengers just prior to that it was 3D 23%, 2D 49% and DVD 28%
http://www.technologytell.com/homete...h-72-of-sales/

[AmrlKJaneway]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

how about for Prometheus 3D was 25% of sales, 2D BD was 51% and DVD was only 24%?
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/top...k-ended-101412

or for avengers just prior to that it was 3D 23%, 2D 49% and DVD 28%
http://www.technologytell.com/homete...h-72-of-sales/

Thanks for that link, I've been looking for something like that.

If 3D is in the realm of where Picture in Picture got to (it's in every telle, you can use it if you want), does that mean that they'll all soon go passive? Why make and distribute these clunky, expensive, glasses no one uses?

[Operation Swordfish]

Originally Posted by AmrlKJaneway

Thanks for that link, I've been looking for something like that.

If 3D is in the realm of where Picture in Picture got to (it's in every telle, you can use it if you want), does that mean that they'll all soon go passive? Why make and distribute these clunky, expensive, glasses no one uses?

The new active glasses I got with my samsung TV must be at least 65% lighter then the ones that my Sony has (first generation 3D Sony) They are practically the same weight as passive 3D glasses from the movie theater. So Active is definitely getting lighter and I swear I absolutely can not see any flicker in the Samsung glasses whatsoever. Passive however will absolutely become standard with 4K because it can deliver 1080p per eye which no other passive 3D 1080p TV can do right now.

[MovieFanatic2010]

4K video content is virtually nonexistent right now.....Also (I read this this) to actually see the difference between 1080P and 4K you need a 100 inch screen which will you cost you a ridiculous amount of cash.... I see no need to for this technology right now as Blu-ray is just fine for me... I also do not want to rebuy all the movies i have on Blu-ray and get them in 4K..... This seems like a lot of $$$ for a little better picture quality which to me is not worth it.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

how about for Prometheus 3D was 25% of sales, 2D BD was 51% and DVD was only 24%?
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/top...k-ended-101412

or for avengers just prior to that it was 3D 23%, 2D 49% and DVD 28%
http://www.technologytell.com/homete...h-72-of-sales/

How about Skyfall? Django Unchained? Zero Dark Thirty? Check the Oscar nominee list, other than animated features, and you'll see only Life of Pi.

No dramas...no comedies...no romantic comedies...no action pictures...it just isn't there. At least, not yet. It's not mainstream, and doesn't appear to be on the path of mainstream. Cartoons and comic book movies, yes, sometimes; none of the Batman movies, for example.

There's plenty of 3-D content for a segment of the audience, so it's around. That's nice.