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Old 01-10-2013, 08:31 PM   #1
Wingman1977 Wingman1977 is online now
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Question Something I noticed with my Onkyo HT-RC360

When I pust a BD that supports DTS-HD 5.1, it outputs it as DTS-HD 7.1 (at least that's what it says on the tv screen when I press display on my remote). Does anyone who owns this receiver or another model Onkyo receiver, has noticed this? It doesn't happen with BD's that support Dolby TrueHD 5.1. If it matters, I have a PS3 (2001-A model) as my BD player.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:16 PM   #2
nismo604 nismo604 is offline
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nothing wrong with your receiver, Denon latest receivers do the same thing, it's a DTS thing. For any DTS source it will automatically matrix the soundtrack to the amount of speakers you have hooked up to your receiver. The only way to defeat it is to go to menu and deselect the SB speakers. Makes me wonder what the point of NeoX is, maybe it's there for you to use on non DTS soundtracks.
Blu as of Nov. 15, 2007
My Setup
Samsung PN60E6500 Plasma
Onkyo TX-NR3009 Receiver and Marantz UD5007 Standalone
7.1 PSB T45 towers, C40 center on mopads & wall mounted B15 for surrounds.
Velodyne VDR-12 Subwoofer on Auralex Gramma
Motorola HD PVR Harmony One remote
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:49 PM   #3
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Has to be a DTS thing because I don't see that with movies that have Dolby TrueHD 5.1.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:52 PM   #4
solarrdadd solarrdadd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman1977 View Post
Has to be a DTS thing because I don't see that with movies that have Dolby TrueHD 5.1.
please name the movies that this occurs on.
55" Sony SXRD KDS-A552000 1080P
PS3 Slim & XBOX 360 Elite, Wii, iPhone5 64gb
iPad4 64gb, AppleTV-hdmi, NAS-1tb, Oppo BDP-105D, 105, 93 & 83 players
Onkyo PR-SC5507P Pre/Pro; TX-NR525 Harmony 1, SB-Touch, Axiom Spkrs M80v3, VP180v3, QS8v3, QS4v3 M2v3, Front 3 Bi-Wired! Emotiva XPA-5, UPA-200, UPA-2 & mini-x Amps, XDA-1DAC, X-Ref 12 DSP Sub & Ultra Subs 12 Polk Audio SDA-2 speakers
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:26 AM   #5
solarrdadd solarrdadd is offline
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it sounds like your using one of these listening modes:
Dolby PLIIx Movie
Dolby PLIIx Music

if you have a 5 channel input signal and if you have 7 speakers acknowledged by the system you will matrix sound into channels 6 & 7 from a 5 channel source. it should be affecting Dolby & DTS sources alike.

i have my receiver set up to do just this. when i have a movie on that's 5.1 DTS-HD-MA my receiver screen says PLIIx Movie and it shows 7 channels being output to. when i hit display it says 5 channels DTS-HD-MA in, 7 channels PLIIx Movie out

is this by chance what your talking about?

oh and when i have a Dolby TrueHD or a DTS-HD-MA that actually has a 7 channel soundtrack the receiver then says the true source DTS-HD-MA or Dolby TrueHD (i bitstream).

it's been a while since i've watched a 7 channel TrueHD audio movie. i'll look for one and make sure it does it. seems almost all of the movies i have are DTS-HD-MA.
55" Sony SXRD KDS-A552000 1080P
PS3 Slim & XBOX 360 Elite, Wii, iPhone5 64gb
iPad4 64gb, AppleTV-hdmi, NAS-1tb, Oppo BDP-105D, 105, 93 & 83 players
Onkyo PR-SC5507P Pre/Pro; TX-NR525 Harmony 1, SB-Touch, Axiom Spkrs M80v3, VP180v3, QS8v3, QS4v3 M2v3, Front 3 Bi-Wired! Emotiva XPA-5, UPA-200, UPA-2 & mini-x Amps, XDA-1DAC, X-Ref 12 DSP Sub & Ultra Subs 12 Polk Audio SDA-2 speakers
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
please name the movies that this occurs on.
Any movie that has DTS-HD 5.1 Dolby TrueHD 5.1 doesn't have this happen.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:31 AM   #7
Wingman1977 Wingman1977 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
it sounds like your using one of these listening modes:
Dolby PLIIx Movie
Dolby PLIIx Music
Quote:
Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post

if you have a 5 channel input signal and if you have 7 speakers acknowledged by the system you will matrix sound into channels 6 & 7 from a 5 channel source. it should be affecting Dolby & DTS sources alike.

i have my receiver set up to do just this. when i have a movie on that's 5.1 DTS-HD-MA my receiver screen says PLIIx Movie and it shows 7 channels being output to. when i hit display it says 5 channels DTS-HD-MA in, 7 channels PLIIx Movie out

is this by chance what your talking about?


oh and when i have a Dolby TrueHD or a DTS-HD-MA that actually has a 7 channel soundtrack the receiver then says the true source DTS-HD-MA or Dolby TrueHD (i bitstream).

it's been a while since i've watched a 7 channel TrueHD audio movie. i'll look for one and make sure it does it. seems almost all of the movies i have are DTS-HD-MA.
Nope.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:55 AM   #8
solarrdadd solarrdadd is offline
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i've been looking at your manual for a while yet can find nothing that says you can do what your saying is happening. there, so far, has been nothing under DTS-HD-MA that changes with Dolby TrueHD with both having 5.1 sources that is different (for the most part) that would explain what your saying.

when your playing said movies (and you didn't list them) do you press display on the receiver remote & if so, what does it say? i believe if you press it 3 times (display) it may say up to 3 different things depending on what information is available.
55" Sony SXRD KDS-A552000 1080P
PS3 Slim & XBOX 360 Elite, Wii, iPhone5 64gb
iPad4 64gb, AppleTV-hdmi, NAS-1tb, Oppo BDP-105D, 105, 93 & 83 players
Onkyo PR-SC5507P Pre/Pro; TX-NR525 Harmony 1, SB-Touch, Axiom Spkrs M80v3, VP180v3, QS8v3, QS4v3 M2v3, Front 3 Bi-Wired! Emotiva XPA-5, UPA-200, UPA-2 & mini-x Amps, XDA-1DAC, X-Ref 12 DSP Sub & Ultra Subs 12 Polk Audio SDA-2 speakers
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:58 AM   #9
solarrdadd solarrdadd is offline
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this may be a PS3 thing for all i know. this never happens to me on either my onkyo 509 receiver or my pre-amp 5507 UNLESS i have the listening mode set to do so.

i can change what the listening mode does on each individual hdmi input, can you? if you can, put your ps3 into a different input that you haven't used before and see if it does the same thing. if it does then it's a setting that has been enabled on the other hdmi input. if it does the exact same thing then it's likely to be either something in the ps3 or something to do with your receiver that i can't find in the manual.
55" Sony SXRD KDS-A552000 1080P
PS3 Slim & XBOX 360 Elite, Wii, iPhone5 64gb
iPad4 64gb, AppleTV-hdmi, NAS-1tb, Oppo BDP-105D, 105, 93 & 83 players
Onkyo PR-SC5507P Pre/Pro; TX-NR525 Harmony 1, SB-Touch, Axiom Spkrs M80v3, VP180v3, QS8v3, QS4v3 M2v3, Front 3 Bi-Wired! Emotiva XPA-5, UPA-200, UPA-2 & mini-x Amps, XDA-1DAC, X-Ref 12 DSP Sub & Ultra Subs 12 Polk Audio SDA-2 speakers
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:02 AM   #10
solarrdadd solarrdadd is offline
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oh yeah, my other question is has it always been this way since you used the ps3 with the receiver or have you had a different player that worked differently or a different receiver that worked differently with the ps3?
55" Sony SXRD KDS-A552000 1080P
PS3 Slim & XBOX 360 Elite, Wii, iPhone5 64gb
iPad4 64gb, AppleTV-hdmi, NAS-1tb, Oppo BDP-105D, 105, 93 & 83 players
Onkyo PR-SC5507P Pre/Pro; TX-NR525 Harmony 1, SB-Touch, Axiom Spkrs M80v3, VP180v3, QS8v3, QS4v3 M2v3, Front 3 Bi-Wired! Emotiva XPA-5, UPA-200, UPA-2 & mini-x Amps, XDA-1DAC, X-Ref 12 DSP Sub & Ultra Subs 12 Polk Audio SDA-2 speakers
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:14 AM   #11
Wingman1977 Wingman1977 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
oh yeah, my other question is has it always been this way since you used the ps3 with the receiver or have you had a different player that worked differently or a different receiver that worked differently with the ps3?
I've only used the PS3 as a BD player on that receiver. It's not much of a big deal since it's not messed up. Just was really wondering if anyone else had experienced this. If anything, I'll probably try the Denon DBP-2012UDCI I have at home some time next week.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:28 AM   #12
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I just recently went back to using a 7.1 setup, and I have the same problem on all of my DTS-HD 5.1 tracks. I know that the Onkyo HT-RC360 came out the same year as my TX-NR809 did, so I don't know if the problem is fixed with the current models or not, but there hasn't been a firmware update to fix it, so I'm thinking that one of the other posters was right and that it's a DTS thing, or it could be a Sony thing with their PS3's and standalone players?
Display-Samsung LN40C500
Bluray-Panasonic DMP-BD79
Receiver-Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains-Polk Audio Monitor 60 Series II
Center-Polk Audio CS2 Series II
Surrounds-Fluance AVBP2
Sub-eD a2-300 w/eD riser(replaced stock driver w/Infinity 1260w)

Last edited by moebeus1975; 01-11-2013 at 04:00 AM.
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:08 AM   #13
nismo604 nismo604 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
this may be a PS3 thing for all i know. this never happens to me on either my onkyo 509 receiver or my pre-amp 5507 UNLESS i have the listening mode set to do so.

i can change what the listening mode does on each individual hdmi input, can you? if you can, put your ps3 into a different input that you haven't used before and see if it does the same thing. if it does then it's a setting that has been enabled on the other hdmi input. if it does the exact same thing then it's likely to be either something in the ps3 or something to do with your receiver that i can't find in the manual.
The reason why none of your receivers do this. One your 5507 is an older pre/pro this change happened on 2011 receivers. Second while your 509 is a 2011 model year receiver it is only a 5.1 receiver, so it will never be able to matrix to 7.1
Blu as of Nov. 15, 2007
My Setup
Samsung PN60E6500 Plasma
Onkyo TX-NR3009 Receiver and Marantz UD5007 Standalone
7.1 PSB T45 towers, C40 center on mopads & wall mounted B15 for surrounds.
Velodyne VDR-12 Subwoofer on Auralex Gramma
Motorola HD PVR Harmony One remote
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:21 AM   #14
nismo604 nismo604 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman1977 View Post
Has to be a DTS thing because I don't see that with movies that have Dolby TrueHD 5.1.
That is what I heard from Onkyo. When I first got my 3009 that is one of the first things I noticed, it was something my 805 never did. So I called Onkyo up thinking it was an issue, they were able to repeat it at their end and talked to DTS about it. They received word from DTS that this how they want it to work, playing any DTS source which includes the legacy lossy version will automatically output to the maximum number of speakers you have hooked up to your receiver.
Blu as of Nov. 15, 2007
My Setup
Samsung PN60E6500 Plasma
Onkyo TX-NR3009 Receiver and Marantz UD5007 Standalone
7.1 PSB T45 towers, C40 center on mopads & wall mounted B15 for surrounds.
Velodyne VDR-12 Subwoofer on Auralex Gramma
Motorola HD PVR Harmony One remote
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:04 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo604 View Post
That is what I heard from Onkyo. When I first got my 3009 that is one of the first things I noticed, it was something my 805 never did. So I called Onkyo up thinking it was an issue, they were able to repeat it at their end and talked to DTS about it. They received word from DTS that this how they want it to work, playing any DTS source which includes the legacy lossy version will automatically output to the maximum number of speakers you have hooked up to your receiver.
Yup Yup My 1009 does this also
|| AVR - Onkyo TX-NR1009 || Amps - Emotiva XPA-2 / Emotiva LPA-1 || TV - Misubishi WD60737 || BD Player - Sony BDP-S790 || CD Player - Denon DCM-290 || Gaming - Modified PS3 Fat / Modified Wii / PS4 (Pre-Ordered)|| Main L&R - Polk Audio Monitor 70II || Center - PolkAudio CS2II || Surround - Polk Audio Monitor 40II || Rear Surround - Polk Audio OWM3 || Front High -Polk Audio OWM3 || Subwoofer - 2 Polk Audio PSW505s || Harmony 1100 Remote ||
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:10 AM   #16
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Well, that clears that. It's not a issue. Glad I posted this thread. Thanks for the input to those who participated.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:50 AM   #17
solarrdadd solarrdadd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo604 View Post
The reason why none of your receivers do this. One your 5507 is an older pre/pro this change happened on 2011 receivers. Second while your 509 is a 2011 model year receiver it is only a 5.1 receiver, so it will never be able to matrix to 7.1
wow, i wish i had two more "old"receivers so you could slap me around some more. i was only trying to help. glad you have what appears to be the answer.

oh yeah, the 509 does support 7.1, to get channels 6 & 7 you have pre-outs that need a seperate (external) 2 channels of amplification, so it's listed for the number of speakers the internal amp can handle, but you knew that too.

op, glad you got your question answered. i wasn't trying to steer you wrong, i was trying to help.
55" Sony SXRD KDS-A552000 1080P
PS3 Slim & XBOX 360 Elite, Wii, iPhone5 64gb
iPad4 64gb, AppleTV-hdmi, NAS-1tb, Oppo BDP-105D, 105, 93 & 83 players
Onkyo PR-SC5507P Pre/Pro; TX-NR525 Harmony 1, SB-Touch, Axiom Spkrs M80v3, VP180v3, QS8v3, QS4v3 M2v3, Front 3 Bi-Wired! Emotiva XPA-5, UPA-200, UPA-2 & mini-x Amps, XDA-1DAC, X-Ref 12 DSP Sub & Ultra Subs 12 Polk Audio SDA-2 speakers
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Last edited by solarrdadd; 01-12-2013 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:55 AM   #18
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DTS-HD Master Audio Essential decoders are designed to output 5.1 sources on BD as 7.1. They do this by duplicating the surrounds to the rears rather than using a matrix process such as DTS Neo:6. Unfortunately, that means you cannot apply a DSP yourself. PLIIx would work better than simple channel duplication.

I did not realize such decoders were being used in AVRs. I thought it was just players.

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Old 01-12-2013, 05:20 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
wow, i wish i had two more "old"receivers so you could slap me around some more. i was only trying to help. glad you have what appears to be the answer.

oh yeah, the 509 does support 7.1, to get channels 6 & 7 you have pre-outs that need a seperate (external) 2 channels of amplification, so it's listed for the number of speakers the internal amp can handle, but you knew that too.

op, glad you got your question answered. i wasn't trying to steer you wrong, i was trying to help.
Was I harsh? Didn't mean to be, I just wanted help and give the op the right info.
Blu as of Nov. 15, 2007
My Setup
Samsung PN60E6500 Plasma
Onkyo TX-NR3009 Receiver and Marantz UD5007 Standalone
7.1 PSB T45 towers, C40 center on mopads & wall mounted B15 for surrounds.
Velodyne VDR-12 Subwoofer on Auralex Gramma
Motorola HD PVR Harmony One remote
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:24 AM   #20
nismo604 nismo604 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post
DTS-HD Master Audio Essential decoders are designed to output 5.1 sources on BD as 7.1. They do this by duplicating the surrounds to the rears rather than using a matrix process such as DTS Neo:6. Unfortunately, that means you cannot apply a DSP yourself. PLIIx would work better than simple channel duplication.

I did not realize such decoders were being used in AVRs. I thought it was just players.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2
so that's how it works I always thought that since my 3009 has NeoX it matrixed the SB channels, I didn't know it was just duplicated.
Blu as of Nov. 15, 2007
My Setup
Samsung PN60E6500 Plasma
Onkyo TX-NR3009 Receiver and Marantz UD5007 Standalone
7.1 PSB T45 towers, C40 center on mopads & wall mounted B15 for surrounds.
Velodyne VDR-12 Subwoofer on Auralex Gramma
Motorola HD PVR Harmony One remote
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