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Old 01-17-2013, 03:30 AM   #21
ZoetMB ZoetMB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronjones View Post
The next generation HDMI spec. will be released very soon as will the H.265 spec. Based on what info I've seen both of these support 1080p at higher frame rates as well as 4K video at up to 60Hz. In fact the H.265 spec. supports up to 8K video. H.265 offers twice the compression rate of H.264 for the same video quality, but requires more processing by the encoder and decoder. Both Sony and LG reps over the past 15 months have said (going as far back as a Sony rep's statements at Cedia Expo 2011 and LG at a couple of trade shows this year) that an upgrade to the Blu-ray standard is expected to support 4K video and I would suspect also higher frame rates for 1080p. LG reps have specfically mentioned they expect to see the first of these 4K blu-rays by the end of 2013. However, I have seen no official timetable from the Blu-ray Disc Association. Hopefully this next generation Blu-ray will also add support for H.265's upto 12-bit color depth (instead of the current blu-ray 8-bit limit). The H.265 codec will be backward compatible with H.264 (used by current Blu-ray) and a next generation blu-ray player will naturally be required to play next generation discs (e.g, with 4K resolution, higher framerate 1080p, etc.). Such a next generation blu-ray player will, of course, be backward capable with all current blu-ray 2D and 3D discs. I would assume the transitiion of these next generation of discs (i.e., movies) will be handled by the movie studios in a similar fashion as is being used for Blu-ray 3D. We will likely hear more about all of this at the CES that takes place two weeks from now in Las Vegas (if not then probably no next gen blu-ray until at least 2014).
Just because something is part of the HDMI spec doesn't mean it actually gets implemented. Did you know that Ethernet over HDMI is part of the spec? But I don't know a single manufacturer who has implemented it.

Also, I'm not sure it's a good idea at this stage in its life for BD to fragment the marketplace by coming out with a new spec that's not backwards compatible. If the studios start coming out with 4K or 8K releases that won't play on current players, that will cause confusion. And if there's anything that can kill a format, it's confusion. (I realize they can put a standard 1080p HD in the box along with the 4K or 8K, but still....) That's why HD physical media didn't take off until BD was the only format. In 2012, BD only had a 26.7% share of the physical media format (in dollars, in the U.S.) They need to be careful so consumers don't get turned off and get into the "why buy now because in another year or two, they'll upgrade the format again" syndrome. Besides, it will be a few more years before 4K sets get down to somewhat reasonable prices. It will be a niche market for a long time.

On the other hand, I attended a SMPTE meeting tonight about 4K origination and there's a lot of really great cameras coming out that will make origination in 4K or above much easier. I saw presentations from Sony, Canon and For-A. Some of the new cameras are capable of 600fps for incredible slow-motion effects. They each showed sample footage that was amazingly impressive, largely due to the wide latitude of the sensors. They showed scenes of a dark-skinned person sitting in the dark with bright windows across the room without gels and there was no blowout at the windows and full details at the person, including great details in the blacks. They were almost all capable at shooting at either "full frame", 16:9 at full width or at Super-35 resolution. Some really great cinema lenses were available for all the cameras. So I think we're going to see a lot more 4K shooting in the future. There will be a lot more options than just the Red camera.
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Last edited by ZoetMB; 01-17-2013 at 03:39 AM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:37 AM   #22
nic727 nic727 is offline
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I hope one day in the next months or years they will release a : "HFR 3D/2D bluray player" That's my dream. I just saw some sample of hfr video on the web and it's amazing. Even in 2D it look like 3D but without 3D effects... I ask some people about that and I think the demand is big.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:02 AM   #23
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When will the next HDMI spec come out?
Is it 1.5 or 2.0?
Hands off the compression button, Music industry!
Hands off the DNR button, Blu-Ray producers!
Films are supposed to have grain!

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Old 01-22-2013, 09:48 AM   #24
Bluyoda Bluyoda is online now
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Thank goodness! I don't want movies to look like soap operas/computer games.
When are they gonna release these movies on BD?:Crossroads (W. Hill; Steve Vai),Fun with Dick & Jane (Jim Carrey, Tea L.), Man on the Moon (Jim C.), Death Becomes Her R. Z.,Diana Krall-LiveattheMontrealJ.F., Alien Autopsy,Dangerous Lives of Alter Boys (Jodie Foster),Fierce Creatures (John Cleese, E. I., J.L.Curtis)Housesitter(Steve M., Goldie H.),Bowfinger (S. M.), Shopgirl (S. M.),OutofTowners (S.M.),Spanglish,Odd Couple 2 (Jack L., Walter M.),Wallace and Gromit-The Curse of the Were-Rabbit,
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:14 PM   #25
AngelGraves13 AngelGraves13 is offline
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The Hobbit release = releasing firmware updates for players and TVs to support 48Hz. If your TV does 24Hz, then it can do 48Hz. It's simply locked in the firmware because there's no use for it until now.

The Hobbit will likely be the first blu-ray disc with 48fps, so they will likely include it as a new standard since it will be catching on.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:06 PM   #26
lobosrul lobosrul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
The Hobbit release = releasing firmware updates for players and TVs to support 48Hz. If your TV does 24Hz, then it can do 48Hz. It's simply locked in the firmware because there's no use for it until now.

The Hobbit will likely be the first blu-ray disc with 48fps, so they will likely include it as a new standard since it will be catching on.
1080p48 isn't in spec. Its not just a matter of a firmware release.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:21 PM   #27
kristoffer kristoffer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
The Hobbit release = releasing firmware updates for players and TVs to support 48Hz. If your TV does 24Hz, then it can do 48Hz. It's simply locked in the firmware because there's no use for it until now.

The Hobbit will likely be the first blu-ray disc with 48fps, so they will likely include it as a new standard since it will be catching on.
But only speculation right?
Hands off the compression button, Music industry!
Hands off the DNR button, Blu-Ray producers!
Films are supposed to have grain!

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Old 01-25-2013, 12:19 AM   #28
ack_bak ack_bak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
The Hobbit release = releasing firmware updates for players and TVs to support 48Hz. If your TV does 24Hz, then it can do 48Hz. It's simply locked in the firmware because there's no use for it until now.

The Hobbit will likely be the first blu-ray disc with 48fps, so they will likely include it as a new standard since it will be catching on.
I don't believe that to be the case at all. I can't see anywhere in the Blu-Ray spec where 48fps is mandatory, nor do I believe all TV's and projectors will support this. I believe to support 48fps you are talking about new hardware (players, TV's, projectors, etc).

Honestly, I don't want it anyway.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:14 AM   #29
AngelGraves13 AngelGraves13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bak View Post
I don't believe that to be the case at all. I can't see anywhere in the Blu-Ray spec where 48fps is mandatory, nor do I believe all TV's and projectors will support this. I believe to support 48fps you are talking about new hardware (players, TV's, projectors, etc).

Honestly, I don't want it anyway.
I didn't say it was in spec. I said it WILL be. Pretty much any TV that can do 24hz can do 48hz. Now the real question is, will they unlock it with a firmware update or will they force us to buy new TVs. Most likely they'll make us buy new TVs so they can make more money.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:10 PM   #30
lobosrul lobosrul is offline
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Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
I didn't say it was in spec. I said it WILL be. Pretty much any TV that can do 24hz can do 48hz. Now the real question is, will they unlock it with a firmware update or will they force us to buy new TVs. Most likely they'll make us buy new TVs so they can make more money.
It doesn't matter if the TV can do 48hz or not, if the BD player cannot. BD supports 1080p at a maximum of 30 fps.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:56 PM   #31
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While I'd love for the standard to finally evolve I just don't see it happening any time soon.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:02 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post
It doesn't matter if the TV can do 48hz or not, if the BD player cannot. BD supports 1080p at a maximum of 30 fps.
The BD spec does support 720p60 so you could try that option. I'm not sure if you can play back at 720p48 (unlikely) so there'd have to be some kind of algorithm to convert from 48 to 60 fps.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:23 PM   #33
AngelGraves13 AngelGraves13 is offline
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Just because something isn't in the spec doesn't mean it's not supported. Will a firmware update add support for 48hz? Peter Jackson said it was possible, but we won't know until the release of The Hobbit.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:30 PM   #34
ack_bak ack_bak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
I didn't say it was in spec. I said it WILL be. Pretty much any TV that can do 24hz can do 48hz. Now the real question is, will they unlock it with a firmware update or will they force us to buy new TVs. Most likely they'll make us buy new TVs so they can make more money.
Many TV's and projectors either require you to ship them back to the manufacturer for a firmware update, or have a local shop or technician perform them. My 3D 1080p projector which is barely 1 year old requires me to ship it back for firmware updates.

Sorry, I just don't see 48fps being a reality anytime soon because of one movie.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:38 PM   #35
lobosrul lobosrul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singhcr View Post
The BD spec does support 720p60 so you could try that option. I'm not sure if you can play back at 720p48 (unlikely) so there'd have to be some kind of algorithm to convert from 48 to 60 fps.
24 fps into 60p causes a bit of jutter but its acceptable (its done on many TV shows and films on 720p HDTV channels). Its a pattern of 3 identical frames, then 2 frames, repeating. Referred to as a 3:2 pattern.

48 fps into 60 would look absolutely awful. It would be something like 1 frame, 1 frame, 1 frame, 1 frame, 2 frames.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:43 PM   #36
lobosrul lobosrul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
Just because something isn't in the spec doesn't mean it's not supported. Will a firmware update add support for 48hz? Peter Jackson said it was possible, but we won't know until the release of The Hobbit.
The underlying hardware for BD players was only required to support h.264 decoding up to level 4.1. Which only supports 1080p up to 30fps. Will some players be capable of being updated to support L4.2, maybe. I guarantee that no where near all of them will able to.

Scroll down to "Levels": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:35 AM   #37
AngelGraves13 AngelGraves13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post
The underlying hardware for BD players was only required to support h.264 decoding up to level 4.1. Which only supports 1080p up to 30fps. Will some players be capable of being updated to support L4.2, maybe. I guarantee that no where near all of them will able to.

Scroll down to "Levels": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC
It's not uncommon for Sony to announce a new profile for Blu-ray. Hell a lot of people bought profile 1 players that have no internet support.

Maybe they'll release a Profile 6 player with 48fps support.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:31 PM   #38
lobosrul lobosrul is offline
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Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
It's not uncommon for Sony to announce a new profile for Blu-ray. Hell a lot of people bought profile 1 players that have no internet support.

Maybe they'll release a Profile 6 player with 48fps support.
That's not the same thing as an h.264/AVC level. Profile 1 players can still play any 2d disc. I've never even bothered with any BD-Live content myself, even though I have a 2.0 player. I don't think its at all likely that a new BD disc standard will be released just for 1080p48 or 1080p60 content. They're just too rare at this point for it to make any sense to come out with a 3rd set of BD players (2nd being 3D).

What I think will happen in the next 2 or 3 years is this:

A new disc based player that supports everything under the sun up to 3840x2160* @ 120fps. Included on the disc will be a BD compliant section that is backwards compatible with any BD player. It would need to be at least 150GB. 100 GB for the new technology using h.265 and up to 50GB left for the BD section.

*Actually if they really want to be forward thinking, include support for actual 4k cinema resolution, 4096x2160.

Last edited by lobosrul; 01-28-2013 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:45 AM   #39
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post
...
*Actually if they really want to be forward thinking, include support for actual 4k cinema resolution, 4096x2160.
Relatively un-important and already assessed here (post#22), with the listed January link….
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....ed#post6392648

I think if we’re wishing for things, better ‘forward thinking’ would be for consumer video support of Main 10 –
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....10#post6987677
To Whom It May Concern - The offers/inquires are appreciated; however, I no longer work only for perks from studio-based home entertainment companies.

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http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...ostcount=11973
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:20 PM   #40
lobosrul lobosrul is offline
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
I think if we’re wishing for things, better ‘forward thinking’ would be for consumer video support of Main 10 –
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....10#post6987677
Like I said, everything under the sun. A quick look at wiki has a statement that hardware that supports Main 10 is just about to be demonstrated. So a future disc based player that doesn't support it would be... idiotic.
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