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Old 01-21-2013, 03:28 AM   #721
singhcr singhcr is offline
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I had a question about 4K "future-proofing" so I figured this was the place to ask.

I am looking at a new receiver and I've settled on the Marantz SR 5007. It has 4k pass-through and up-sampling capabilities. The 4K support for this receiver is based on the HDMI 1.4 specification, correct? HDMI 1.4 supports both 3840 x 2160 and 4096 x 2160 resolutions so should I be able to use this receiver when 4K comes out? I know the spec hasn't been completely standardized but I imagine that's a codec/content delivery issue and whatever comes out in the future will use HDMI 1.4 for transmission?

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/4K.aspx
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pa...oductId=SR5007

Thanks!

Last edited by singhcr; 01-21-2013 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:53 AM   #722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singhcr View Post
I had a question about 4K "future-proofing" so I figured this was the place to ask.

I am looking at a new receiver and I've settled on the Marantz SR 5007. It has 4k pass-through and up-sampling capabilities. The 4K support for this receiver is based on the HDMI 1.4 specification, correct? HDMI 1.4 supports both 3840 x 2160 and 4096 x 2160 resolutions so should I be able to use this receiver when 4K comes out? I know the spec hasn't been completely standardized but I imagine that's a codec/content delivery issue and whatever comes out in the future will use HDMI 1.4 for transmission?

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/4K.aspx
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pa...oductId=SR5007

Thanks!
I really believe buying 4K equipment now is like buying "HD Ready" equipment when 1080 was coming to market. Just wait for standards to be finalised etc.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:55 AM   #723
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singhcr View Post
I had a question about 4K "future-proofing" so I figured this was the place to ask.

I am looking at a new receiver and I've settled on the Marantz SR 5007. It has 4k pass-through and up-sampling capabilities. The 4K support for this receiver is based on the HDMI 1.4 specification, correct? HDMI 1.4 supports both 3840 x 2160 and 4096 x 2160 resolutions so should I be able to use this receiver when 4K comes out? I know the spec hasn't been completely standardized but I imagine that's a codec/content delivery issue and whatever comes out in the future will use HDMI 1.4 for transmission?

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/4K.aspx
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pa...oductId=SR5007

Thanks!
Basic ‘vanilla 4K without toppings’, i.e. 2D 4K at up to 30Hz, you should be safe.

As far as future proofing with higher video timing, you might get a better handle on that, i.e. the data transfer limitations of HDMI 1.4 (currently capped at 8 Gb/s with overhead and 10.2 Gb/s with overhead removed) and how it relates practically to the demands of future advanced, efficient codecs like .RED and HEVC) if you can at least wait to find out from owners/users if the REDRAY player can provide 4K 60fps through one HDMI 1.4 connection….or,

whether it will require more than one simultaneous HDMI 1.4 path.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:00 AM   #724
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lnds500 View Post
I really believe buying 4K equipment now is like buying "HD Ready" equipment when 1080 was coming to market. Just wait for standards to be finalised etc.
On that note, something else for singhcr and other members to keep in mind (if their purchasing timeline is somewhat flexible) is that the HDMI Forum has “targeted” the first half of 2013 for the release of the ‘next’ version of the HDMI Specification.

Of course, there is always a ‘next’ in the entertainment business….be it a 4K master of the original, or next one and next one, etc. -

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-li...obbit/1429006/
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:08 AM   #725
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
the REDRAY player...
Nothing out of Sundance Film Festival regarding the ODEMAX distribution platform?

WOW.

And today was the 4K panel.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:49 PM   #726
singhcr singhcr is offline
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Thanks for the info Penton. In that case I think I'll wait as I don't need to get a new receiver right away. It would be rather silly to spend $700+ on a new piece of gear and then have to replace it whenever the 4K home delivery system comes out. I know standards change all the time but as I'm planning my purchases around the 4K spec it makes sense to wait until that is a bit more standardized.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:41 PM   #727
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singhcr View Post
Thanks for the info Penton. In that case I think I'll wait as I don't need to get a new receiver right away. It would be rather silly to spend $700+ on a new piece of gear and then have to replace it whenever the 4K home delivery system comes out. I know standards change all the time but as I'm planning my purchases around the 4K spec it makes sense to wait until that is a bit more standardized.
As consumer 4K is in its infancy, that’s a wise decision if you’re in no real purchasing hurry, e.g. your current 1080p device didn’t break down and you need a replacement ASAP. In a nutshell, Lnds500 provided good advice above.

You never really know about ‘future proofing’ for the really long term future…it’s all relative. For example, JCT-VC is scheduled to work on range extensions for the Main HEVC profile (such as Chroma formats beyond 4:2:0 and bit depths beyond 10 bits) throughout the course of 2013, after a preliminary study report from last autumn…
http://phenix.int-evry.fr/jct/doc_en...nt.php?id=6775

I’m not saying that these range extensions will become a part of the impending ‘consumer 4K standard’, if you will….hardly, just that ‘future proofing’ is a tricky topic.

Plus, the journey to achieve the highest efficacy possible is a worthwhile endeavor for productive minds in their respective fields…and should be recognized for the effort.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:19 PM   #728
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Sticker Shock!
“the least expensive ones will cost $8,000.” And that’s not adjusted for inflation



since 1998

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/08/20/te...ted=all&src=pm
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:18 PM   #729
PeterTHX PeterTHX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
As consumer 4K is in its infancy, that’s a wise decision if you’re in no real purchasing hurry, e.g. your current 1080p device didn’t break down and you need a replacement ASAP.
I'd say 4k is at where HDTV was at circa the late '90s. A standard, some experiments in transmission, but nothing as far as scheduled broadcasts and playback formats. It was years after HDTV was widely available did we get Blu-ray (and the "other" format). I think the talk about RedRay and having playback formats is premature until 4K itself is widely available. Standards have to be nailed down before the market fragments and every company is going to start offering their own box that offers a different method.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:09 AM   #730
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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I must say that with all the hype in December from the RED team leading up to the promise that there would be some content announcements from RED’s distribution partner, ODEMAX and the fact that none have been forthcoming at Sundance Film Festival, especially given the 4K panel yesterday….mark me as disappointed.

I guess all we’re left with this January is CES 2013, the Toshiba booth and ‘TED from RED’…


Interesting aside about The Hobbit (not mentioned by Ted and honestly, probably not known by him) is that worldwide, after the digital projector upgrades (which varied in expense), just about 3,800 auditoriums were capable of projecting the 3D HFR version….and only about 1,200 – 1500 actually were sent the DCPs in order to do so.

I guess that was to ‘protect’ the format. I mean the last thing that you want when you run an experiment is to have more input. I imagine some marketing people believe a larger data poll cuts down on the statistical significance.
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Last edited by Penton-Man; 04-15-2013 at 04:41 PM. Reason: two typos
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:25 AM   #731
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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I think the talk about RedRay and having playback formats is premature until 4K itself is widely available...
Well Peter, on the contrary, I think it is rather exciting being at the ground level or formative stage, if you will, of consumer 4K, sort of like it was to be on this forum in 2006/2007 with the emerging Blu-ray format and its challenges with HD DVD and DVD. Otherwise you’re left with Blu-ray ‘reassurance threads’, ‘semantics debate threads’ and ‘retrospective, why Blu-ray did or didn’t do this threads’.

A few people might prefer alternative reading choices, i.e. 4K, Redray...even though “standards have to be nailed down”.

I rather think that this thread has high accurate information to speculative-opinion ratio, which cuts down on the nonsensical ‘debates’ which are essentially back-and-forth arguments, a feature (the ratio) which, at least I, find to be rather pleasing.

We could have a commercial listening break though…

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Last edited by Penton-Man; 01-23-2013 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:17 AM   #732
singhcr singhcr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post

I guess that was to ‘protect’ the format. I mean the last thing that you want when you run an experiment is to have more input. I imagine some marketing people believe a larger data poll cuts down on the statistical significance.
As an engineer who relies on statistical significance to back up his testing results, my head hurts now.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:00 AM   #733
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
I must say that with all the hype in December from the RED team leading up to the promise that there would be some content announcements from RED’s distribution partner, ODEMAX and the fact that none have been forthcoming at Sundance Film Festival, especially given the 4K panel yesterday….mark me as disappointed.
Disappointed, but were you surprised? I hope not
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:18 AM   #734
Anthony P Anthony P is offline
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Originally Posted by vargo View Post
Disappointed, but were you surprised? I hope not
yeah, I don't expect anything to happen in a time frame given by red.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:18 PM   #735
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Disappointed, but were you surprised? I hope not
Honestly, I’m a little surprised that nada...nothing...zilch....zero came out of ODEMAX at Sundance on Monday, as contributing something…anything, on the day of the 4K panel would have been a natural tie-in. Given the lead-up RED hype, I did expect at least some ambiguous marketing vagaries presented as to the distribution platform, etc., sort of like the technical vagaries mentioned on the RED forum in regards to how their laser projectors (pro model) would handle DCP packages…http://www.sintel.org/

Well anyway, Sundance isn’t over yet, so I guess they still have time to redeem themselves.

As to Ted’s claim about how popular RED cameras are, on an artistic note, it might be interesting for people to check out what cameras were used for this year’s Academy Awards Best Picture nominations…..
http://www.imdb.com/oscars/nominations/

or, for that matter, the ASC noms….http://www.theasc.com/asc_news/News_...s/News_446.php
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:55 PM   #736
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
Honestly, I’m a little surprised that nada...nothing...zilch....zero came out of ODEMAX at Sundance on Monday, as contributing something…anything, on the day of the 4K panel would have been a natural tie-in....
^ So, to fill in for the 4K RED vacuum news, or lack thereof, zee Shark comes to the rescue…. http://www.redsharknews.com/post/ite...ction-facility
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:03 PM   #737
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Reminds me. I may have to apologize to everyone for speaking prematurely about Blu-ray for years…at least up until Spring of 2011, for you see, up until then, there was never a standard for gamma for flat panel displays used in HDTV studio production, which includes mastering Blu-rays.

See this for background….http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....ma#post4906051

P.S.
Actually, come to think of it, I may still be speaking prematurely about Blu-ray to this day because I’m not sure all the mastering suites all over the world have implemented the now standardized gamma, i.e. EOTF in ITU Rec.1886 .

^ Just teasing my soccer buddy with good humored banter.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:29 PM   #738
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Samsung brings out 85inch 4k tv

http://www.t3.com/news/samsung-s9-85...-4k-tv-on-show
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:34 PM   #739
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Sticker Shock!
“the least expensive ones will cost $8,000.” And that’s not adjusted for inflation

since 1998...
So, continuing. My anonymous source tells me a good inflation adjusted figure is $11,268.42 for what $8,000 was back in 1998, when they used to watch little screens on fat boxes, from far away…

http://abcnews.go.com/Archives/video...ebuts-11710656
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:19 PM   #740
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Originally Posted by joliefan View Post
?

They had a 110" 4K TV right in front of that one on the CES floor! I saw it. Made the 85" one look small in comparison. The article writer needs to be bopped in the back of the head!
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