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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Pre/Pro, Amplifiers and Separate Systems

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Old 12-14-2012, 11:18 PM   #1
v_squared123 v_squared123 is online now
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Lightbulb Pro amps officially better than consumer amps!

http://www.hometheaterequipment.com/...l-thread-1319/

Editor over at hometheaterequipment.com decided to try out some crown audio pro amplifiers and very impressed with it that he decided to replace his own consumer level amps! He his review was very positive! He is now in talks with the company to send more pro amps for review!
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:32 AM   #2
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The reviewer did another review on pro amps. Here is what he said " I found it to be extremely neutral in that I had a difficult time describing its actual sound. The sonic signature, to my ears, is neither here nor there, it just is, which is the highest praise I can heap upon any product for when you’re mastering the only sound you wish to impart upon the signal and thus the audience is your own. The XLS 2000s are extremely fast, articulate and refined -again, something I wasn’t expecting from such a low cost product "
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:38 AM   #3
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A forum member on the reviewers website bought a pro series amp and made a comparison to his emotiva mono blocks powering his revels - " I went to Guitar Center yesterday and picked up an XLS 2500 to power my Revel Salon 2's. I had been running a pair of Emotiva XPA 1 monos. All I can say is wow. The Crown to my ears is soooo much better. Its like the low end of the Revels suddenly came alive. The sense of spacial correctness is undeniable. Timbre is right on. It is hard to describe without coming off like a dork. After all, amps aren't supposed to sound like anything, right? Btm line, the XPA's are now on the chopping block. Unbelievable. Thanks for helping me think outside the box Andrew."
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:04 AM   #4
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Another owner of crown pro amps had this to say:

"Just thought I would post a few photos of the crown's for any one that might think pro gear has to be ugly and utilitarian. I now have a 2000 for the tweeter and mid, and a 2500 controling the bottom end. I have owned a LOT of amps in my days, many very high end ones as well. I find it hard to admit, but I gotta say....these are the BEST sounding amps I have ever come across...AT ANY PRICE!
The top end is clean and clear, without being fatiguing, the power they put out command and control the bottom end like nothing I have ever come accross. There is a crisp "snap" to the drum beats that I have never noticed before, and everything is just so, well...as my friend puts it, "clean and tight" The remarks about the sound being un-colored are very true though, if it's a crappy recording, you will know after about 1 second.

Before the Crown's I could never really tell a diffrence between digital recordings of LP's that I saved to my computer and played through the DAC or the real LP...now I can. Yes, it's that detailed...almost too much so. Having said that, the warmth of a LP sounds much better with the crowns, and I'm going to bet with a tube pre-amp, this set up would rival some real high end stuff! Hats off to crown, this is great stuff!
Now if I can just get the idea that some 90 year old woman at my local K-mart is probably using the same amp to announce the lasted "blue light special" out of my head.... "

Link is here for those who want to see pics his setup. It is post number 56?
http://www.hometheaterequipment.com/....html#post9010
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:26 AM   #5
Nick The Slick Nick The Slick is offline
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Owning a Crown XLS 1500 myself to power my Monitor 70 fronts I must agree with everything said here. What really blows my mind with these XLS series amps is the class D design, leaving them weighting in at a whopping 11lbs! Absolutely amazing all that power and features (love the built in 4th order x-over), RCA inputs as well as XLR. Definitely picking up a 1000 in the future for my surrounds. Would recommend this line all day any day.
My Current Setup:
Receiver:
Onkyo TX-NR818 Amps: Crown XLS 1500 (Mains), Dayton Audio SA230 (Sub) Display: BenQ W1070 on Elite Screens Silver Frame series 84" Front L/R Speakers: Polk Audio Monitor 70's Center Speaker: Polk Audio CS2 Rear L/R Speakers: Polk Audio Monitor 30's Sub: 1 DIY 12 Inch Sealed sub Blu-Ray/Gaming/Music/TV: Custom built desktop computer
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:35 AM   #6
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Movie theaters, concert organizers, and professional auditoriums do not use Emotiva or other home theater amplifiers. Once you use a pro amplifier, you realize how overpriced home theater amplifiers are.

A major reason why home theater amplifiers are heavier is because of their massive heat sinks. Heat sinks do not play an important role in sound quality. They are used to dissipate heat. Pro amplifiers use one or two fans. Some of these fans can be noisy.

If you plan to use a pro amp, it may be a good idea to check its fan noise. You can also replace the fan with a low noise fan for less than $15 as I did with my Behringer EP4000 pro amp. You can read about it in The Behringer and Other Pro Amps thread.

Another disadvantage of pro amps is that they are not very attractive. They increase the likelihood of your spouse kicking you out of the house.
HT Room: Panasonic PT-AE8000, Epson 1080UB Proj., Mitsubishi 65" Diamond Series HD TV, Yamaha-RX-A3010 Rec., CinePro 6-Ch. Amp. (350 W/Ch, 8 Ohm), Proton D1200 Amp., Behringer EP4000 & EPX3000 Amps., Oppo BDP-83, Sony BDP-S790, Audio Technica Tuntable, Mitsubishi S-VHS, 2 Def. Tech. Super Towers w 15" subs, 1 Def. Tech. Center & 1 Martin-Logan Center, 2 Def. Tech. Surr. & 2 PSB Surr., 2 Cadence Presence, 2 Bose 901 Rears, 2 Modified HSU 12" Subs, 1 ED DIY 12" Sub, 1 ED DIY 15" Sub, Velodyne SMS-1 Subwoofer Equalizer, DirecTV HD, Monster HTS 5000 & APC H15 Power Conditioners.
Two-Channel Room: XiangSheng Tube Preamp., Carver TFM-45 Amp. (375 W/Ch), Behringer EPX4000 Amp., Onkyo CD player, Denon Turntable, Yamaha Tuner, 2 Vintage Polk RTA-15TL Speakers, 2 LCY 100 Super Tweeters, 2 DIY Folded Horn Super Towers with 15" Sub., 1 Modified AA HD-SUB12
Family Room: Mitsubishi 73" Diamond Series TV, Yamaha DSP-A3090 Rec., DirecTV HD-DVR, PS3, Zvox Speaker, 1 DIY 12" Sub.
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
Movie theaters, concert organizers, and professional auditoriums do not use Emotiva or other home theater amplifiers. Once you use a pro amplifier, you realize how overpriced home theater amplifiers are.

A major reason why home theater amplifiers are heavier is because of their massive heat sinks. Heat sinks do not play an important role in sound quality. They are used to dissipate heat. Pro amplifiers use one or two fans. Some of these fans can be noisy.

If you plan to use a pro amp, it may be a good idea to check its fan noise. You can also replace the fan with a low noise fan for less than $15 as I did with my Behringer EP4000 pro amp. You can read about it in The Behringer and Other Pro Amps thread.

Another disadvantage of pro amps is that they are not very attractive. They increase the likelihood of your spouse kicking you out of the house.
BD...the Crowns don't look that bad , I actually recommended these for use with some ML's in another thread. As you know, I have the Behringer EP4000 also, but I'm seriously looking at the Crowns if I need to replace my amps.
Klipsch Cornwall L/R, Klipsch Heresy center, Definitive Technology BP2's (x4) rear, Wharfedale sw380 Subs (x2), SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2-8 inch transmission line Subs (rear), Yamaha power Amps mx830 (x2), Adcom 5503 3 channel power amp, Behringer EP4000 Power amp, BD HTPC, Xonar Essence ST/H6 modified Burson Supreme Discreet Opamps, Da-lite 16:9 106" Screen, BenQ 3D Projector, LG 55 inch LED TV.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:18 PM   #8
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So if I don't care about looks or fan noise a pro amp is the way to go? I cant help but be a little skeptical given the price difference but if these are truly better I am all for saving money lol
Display: 120" Elitescreen + Epson 5030UB
Power: Emotiva UMC-200, XPA-3, 2x UPA-1
Fronts: Polk LSi15s (Upgraded crossovers and woofers)
Rears: Polk LSi7s
Center: Polk LSiC (Upgraded crossover)
Sub: DIY JL 12W7 w/Behringer EPX-2800
Blu-ray: OPPO BDP-103
Headphones: Sennheiser HD558
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLindsay View Post
So if I don't care about looks or fan noise a pro amp is the way to go? I cant help but be a little skeptical given the price difference but if these are truly better I am all for saving money lol
The Crowns run pretty quiet, most that I've seen have a hard time getting the fan to come on - the Behringer sounds like a small jet ! (it's still a great amp)!!!
Klipsch Cornwall L/R, Klipsch Heresy center, Definitive Technology BP2's (x4) rear, Wharfedale sw380 Subs (x2), SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2-8 inch transmission line Subs (rear), Yamaha power Amps mx830 (x2), Adcom 5503 3 channel power amp, Behringer EP4000 Power amp, BD HTPC, Xonar Essence ST/H6 modified Burson Supreme Discreet Opamps, Da-lite 16:9 106" Screen, BenQ 3D Projector, LG 55 inch LED TV.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLindsay View Post
So if I don't care about looks or fan noise a pro amp is the way to go? I cant help but be a little skeptical given the price difference but if these are truly better I am all for saving money lol
Save dat money!!!
Klipsch Cornwall L/R, Klipsch Heresy center, Definitive Technology BP2's (x4) rear, Wharfedale sw380 Subs (x2), SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2-8 inch transmission line Subs (rear), Yamaha power Amps mx830 (x2), Adcom 5503 3 channel power amp, Behringer EP4000 Power amp, BD HTPC, Xonar Essence ST/H6 modified Burson Supreme Discreet Opamps, Da-lite 16:9 106" Screen, BenQ 3D Projector, LG 55 inch LED TV.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post
Save dat money!!!
I think the prices are going up. I have two; the QSC 2450, and the QSC 1450. They're terrific.

The QSC 2450 is now running between $650 and $750. I bought mine, with no discount from Guitar Center, at $380.

The QSC 1450 is now running $500 to $600. I bought mine, again at no discount, for $280.

I got them both in 2009. These prices are blowing my mind.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:37 PM   #12
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Why do people buying "home theater" amps if these are so much better especially for the money?
Display: 120" Elitescreen + Epson 5030UB
Power: Emotiva UMC-200, XPA-3, 2x UPA-1
Fronts: Polk LSi15s (Upgraded crossovers and woofers)
Rears: Polk LSi7s
Center: Polk LSiC (Upgraded crossover)
Sub: DIY JL 12W7 w/Behringer EPX-2800
Blu-ray: OPPO BDP-103
Headphones: Sennheiser HD558
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLindsay View Post
Why do people buying "home theater" amps if these are so much better especially for the money?
The paradigm must be broken. People have equated the high end with price and brands, along with quality. People don't realize that pro gear offers high quality but lacks looks in most cases. Tell me do you think they are using Krell, McCormick, or Carver tubes in the recording studios? No they are using pro gear, as a matter of fact if you listen to any type of amplified music or a live event...you are listening to pro amps and horn speakers (JBL, Klipsch, or Yorkville are your usual suspects).
Klipsch Cornwall L/R, Klipsch Heresy center, Definitive Technology BP2's (x4) rear, Wharfedale sw380 Subs (x2), SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2-8 inch transmission line Subs (rear), Yamaha power Amps mx830 (x2), Adcom 5503 3 channel power amp, Behringer EP4000 Power amp, BD HTPC, Xonar Essence ST/H6 modified Burson Supreme Discreet Opamps, Da-lite 16:9 106" Screen, BenQ 3D Projector, LG 55 inch LED TV.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:54 PM   #14
Nick The Slick Nick The Slick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLindsay View Post
Why do people buying "home theater" amps if these are so much better especially for the money?
Aesthetics? Ease of integration? (most pro amps only have balanced inputs, making you have to buy another piece of equipment to convert the unbalanced RCA pre-outs on your average AVR to balanced). Perhaps people think that since pro-amps aren't exactly designed and engineered specifically for home theater use then they'd rather get something that is. Or maybe people just simply don't know pro amps even exist or can be used for this purpose at all. Could also be the variety of output combinations. Most pro amps I see only have 2 channels or bridged mono, whereas there are a few options for 3, 5, or 7 channel in the HT consumer market. Just a few ideas there, could be a million different reasons.
My Current Setup:
Receiver:
Onkyo TX-NR818 Amps: Crown XLS 1500 (Mains), Dayton Audio SA230 (Sub) Display: BenQ W1070 on Elite Screens Silver Frame series 84" Front L/R Speakers: Polk Audio Monitor 70's Center Speaker: Polk Audio CS2 Rear L/R Speakers: Polk Audio Monitor 30's Sub: 1 DIY 12 Inch Sealed sub Blu-Ray/Gaming/Music/TV: Custom built desktop computer
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:19 AM   #15
BLindsay BLindsay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick The Slick View Post
Aesthetics? Ease of integration? (most pro amps only have balanced inputs, making you have to buy another piece of equipment to convert the unbalanced RCA pre-outs on your average AVR to balanced). Perhaps people think that since pro-amps aren't exactly designed and engineered specifically for home theater use then they'd rather get something that is. Or maybe people just simply don't know pro amps even exist or can be used for this purpose at all. Could also be the variety of output combinations. Most pro amps I see only have 2 channels or bridged mono, whereas there are a few options for 3, 5, or 7 channel in the HT consumer market. Just a few ideas there, could be a million different reasons.
yeah that was the only thing I noticed that might bother me is I didn't really see any 5 channel amps
Display: 120" Elitescreen + Epson 5030UB
Power: Emotiva UMC-200, XPA-3, 2x UPA-1
Fronts: Polk LSi15s (Upgraded crossovers and woofers)
Rears: Polk LSi7s
Center: Polk LSiC (Upgraded crossover)
Sub: DIY JL 12W7 w/Behringer EPX-2800
Blu-ray: OPPO BDP-103
Headphones: Sennheiser HD558
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post
The paradigm must be broken. People have equated the high end with price and brands, along with quality. People don't realize that pro gear offers high quality but lacks looks in most cases. Tell me do you think they are using Krell, McCormick, or Carver tubes in the recording studios? No they are using pro gear, as a matter of fact if you listen to any type of amplified music or a live event...you are listening to pro amps and horn speakers (JBL, Klipsch, or Yorkville are your usual suspects).
There are recording studios that uses bryston and mcintosh amps. I understand what you are saying but there are studios that use non pro amps.
Speakers - Wharfedale Diamond 10.7 - 10.CM - 10.DFS
Subwoofers - Dual Svs Sb13 Ultras
Amps - Marantz PM8005 with HTBP and Marantz MM7055
Pre/Pros - Marantz AV7702 and Marantz PM8005
Video - Panasonic 4K 65"AX800U - Sources - PS4 - Mac Mini - Panasonic BDT460
Power and Protection - 2 Panamax 4100 PM
Cabling and Interconnects - Audioquest - DAC - Marantz HD-DAC1
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerrellB View Post
There are recording studios that uses bryston and mcintosh amps. I understand what you are saying but there are studios that use non pro amps.
That's why I didn't use those brands as examples, I was introduced to McIntosh as a DJ back in the mid 80's
Klipsch Cornwall L/R, Klipsch Heresy center, Definitive Technology BP2's (x4) rear, Wharfedale sw380 Subs (x2), SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2-8 inch transmission line Subs (rear), Yamaha power Amps mx830 (x2), Adcom 5503 3 channel power amp, Behringer EP4000 Power amp, BD HTPC, Xonar Essence ST/H6 modified Burson Supreme Discreet Opamps, Da-lite 16:9 106" Screen, BenQ 3D Projector, LG 55 inch LED TV.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:47 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLindsay View Post
Why do people buying "home theater" amps if these are so much better especially for the money?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick The Slick View Post
Aesthetics? Ease of integration?
Exactly! Same reason we use horizontal centers. I'd use pro amps, under two conditions only, 1. Be hidden from view( preferably another room/closet ) & 2. Be rack mounted. Using a pre-pro with balanced pre-outs would make integration easier.
LIVING ROOM: Panasonic TC-P65V10, SONY BDP-S5000ES, SONY STR-DA5300ES, Emotiva XPA-5, Def Tech(BP2006 x 2, C/L/R2300, BP2X x 2, BP1.2X x 2)
BEDROOM: SONY KDL-52XBR5, OPPO BDP-103, Pioneer Elite SC-63, Energy(RC-LCR x 3), Paradigm(ADP-190 x 2), SVS PC12-PLUS



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Old 01-28-2013, 12:49 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLindsay View Post
yeah that was the only thing I noticed that might bother me is I didn't really see any 5 channel amps
I had a Yamaha 6150 - it was a pro amp with 6 channels - 150 per, or three channel bridged 225, I miss that amp . Most theaters use separate amps for each channel.
Klipsch Cornwall L/R, Klipsch Heresy center, Definitive Technology BP2's (x4) rear, Wharfedale sw380 Subs (x2), SVS 16-46 CS (X2) 2-8 inch transmission line Subs (rear), Yamaha power Amps mx830 (x2), Adcom 5503 3 channel power amp, Behringer EP4000 Power amp, BD HTPC, Xonar Essence ST/H6 modified Burson Supreme Discreet Opamps, Da-lite 16:9 106" Screen, BenQ 3D Projector, LG 55 inch LED TV.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:53 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post
I had a Yamaha 6150 - it was a pro amp with 6 channels - 150 per, or three channel bridged 225, I miss that amp . Most theaters use separate amps for each channel.
How many channels do theaters usually have?
LIVING ROOM: Panasonic TC-P65V10, SONY BDP-S5000ES, SONY STR-DA5300ES, Emotiva XPA-5, Def Tech(BP2006 x 2, C/L/R2300, BP2X x 2, BP1.2X x 2)
BEDROOM: SONY KDL-52XBR5, OPPO BDP-103, Pioneer Elite SC-63, Energy(RC-LCR x 3), Paradigm(ADP-190 x 2), SVS PC12-PLUS



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