Regarding audio: Any difference in using expensive HDMI cables?

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Remo

I've tried monoprice interconnects and HDMI, they are junk loose fitting. I like media bridge cables they are cheap and seem to be of good quality and nice tight fit, although a bit stiff. They sell their product on Amazon, just search media bridge.

I think that's a problem with the HDMI form factor. It should have been a locking plug or a deeper plug. I've had a problem with the super heavy duty Monoprice HDMI cables because they're so heavy and they're inflexible, but I think that would happen with anyone's large gauge cable.

I've since switched to their Slim or UltraSlim HDMI cable with Redmere Technology for my main long cable between the receiver and the TV. Those are priced a bit higher and frankly, I have no idea what the Redmere tech is really providing, but these are tiny, lightweight cables and to my surprise, they work perfectly and it's taken the physical pressure off of the jacks. This cable has never fallen out.

[Tech-UK]

I use these little beauties:

http://www.blueechosolutions.com/pro...rod=hd-ez-lock

only problem, is if you swap/move your equipment frequently, it can become quiet tedious to un-fit and fit them.

[Jhayman]

I agree as well Emo makes Quality cables at resonable prices..
Thank You Johnny Vinyl for linking Take Five Audio, I have had a hard time finding places in Toronto to buy TT stuff and cables from..
Which is why I bought Emo speaker cables because I could not find a place in Toronto to match Emo for quality and price..

Originally Posted by Johnny Vinyl

Emo makes nice cables at a reasonable price....I can attest to that. Also, I use Take Five Audio in Toronto as well. They custom make cables and are reasonably priced as well.

It's like anything....never buy the cheapest, but there is no need to buy the most expensive either.

[Jhayman]

I think another question should be asked, DO after market power cables make any difference?
I think again would be the cheapest $2 cable vs $20..PC
Now they have many PC costing hunrdreds of $ even Thousands..
Does that mean a highend amp say Mark Levinson for $10,000 do you think they would recommend you buy an aftermarket PC or do you think they would already be using the best PC when they designed the AMP in the first place..??
Don't want to start a war or anything but?
It's like Pioneer Kuro it's still considered the best Plasma today, and the first thing it says in the owners manual is DO NOT USE AFTER MARKET POWER CABLES..
Now I'm sure they mean, no one is going to use a $2 PC if someone is going to replace a PC it's going to be and after market PC that costs $$

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Jhayman

DO after market power cables make any difference?

No. As long as a power wire is thick enough for the intended use, and not broken, it will work perfectly well. Whatever wire came with the device will be fine.

--Ethan

[ZoetMB]

Re: Power Cables

Think about it logically. What difference could the 6' of power cable between the wall jack and your equipment possibly make when there's hundreds of feet of cable in your walls and out to the street?

People who think they hear a difference with different power cables reminds me of the "Lie-Witness News" routine on the Jimmy Kimmel show where they ask people on the street questions about events that never really happened and the idiots respond as if they have full knowledge of the supposed event. Like "Did you think Obama should have punched that three-year-old in the face?" and they respond with something like, "No..that was really terrible - he shouldn't have done that."

The only difference a power cable can make is if it's grounded or not. Sometimes ground loops can occur which cause hum and lifting the ground (the third pin) can sometimes eliminate it, although it makes the equipment slightly more unsafe if there's ever a major short in the power supply. But you can buy a 3 pin to 2 pin adapter at any hardware store for about a $1. (Many years ago as a recording engineer, I had a remote session to record an interview with singer Rita Coolidge. I get to the record company's offices and plug the equipment in, listen on the headphones and the noise was absolutely overwhelming. I couldn't figure out what was going on. I called the studio to speak to a more senior engineer and he told me to lift the ground. I did so and all the noise disappeared. But the first half of the interview was recorded with the noise and I had to use extensive filtering and EQ to make it even slightly listenable.)

In some recording studios (and sometimes in laboratories), they have isolated circuits that run directly to ground. And when I say ground, I really mean it - a metal shaft that's stuck as far into the earth as possible.

These fancy power cables are about nothing more than macho pride. "Look at that big, thick cable I have...", etc. etc. I bet a large percentage of people who waste their money on esoteric power cables also drive red sportscars. You know you don't have to do that anymore....they have prescription drugs that help with that problem.

[Jhayman]

Oh I have thought about it logically I was just curious about other opinions as I have had many heated discussions about them , thinking like you, I was insulted, picked on and generally called stupid because I was thinking like you..lol
over on the Polkie forum
still there are people that swear a 2 meter PC can make a magical difference..
My only reply to them is HOW, and WHY would would a $10K AMP need a $500 PC

[Solo man]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Most wire and connectors are fine. Replacing one competent wire with another will not change the sound, even if for various reasons people think the sound did change. But I have seen wires that do affect the sound. One way to do that is to use wire that has a very high capacitance. This is mostly a problem with analog signal wires, though high capacitance can have a negative effect with speaker wires. Another way to change the sound in a bad way is to insert various components such as resistors and inductors. Things like the Bybee Purifiers for example that are inserted into the signal path.

Also, good connections can degrade over time. Simply unplugging and then re-seating RCA connectors can improve the sound because the connection had degraded over time due to oxidization. I recently solved a hum problem in one of my vintage (1994) pinball machines. I was just about to put a 'scope on the audio section power supply to see if the regulator IC had gone bad. Then I noticed an RCA plug and jack on the audio PC board. I didn't even unplug it. I just rotated the plug a bit in both directions and the hum went away. Apparently the ground connection wasn't solid, and rotating the plug cleaned away the oxidization.

--Ethan

Hello, Ethan, thanks for the tip on the RCA connections and just did that. I don't know if I heard a difference but did it any way. How often should you change out your RCA cables? I don't want to degrade the connection and is reseating them enough?

I got different brand of cables for audio and video. I got Belkin HDMI cables that I got cheap and have no issues. I got Kimber speaker cables biwired to the amp and heard no difference over the monster xp cables before. There seems to be a huge markup on cables I find because I get them for 40-50 percent off. The last deal I found was Acoustic Research RCA cables that I got for 29.00 bucks.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Solo man

How often should you change out your RCA cables? I don't want to degrade the connection and is reseating them enough?

I never change wires unless they go bad. That does happen, but it's rare. I have RCA wires that haven't been reseated in 10+ years. So I wouldn't even bother unless something sounds amiss. One good test is to play a 100 Hz sine wave at a moderate volume level. If a bad or corroded contact is causing slight distortion, this type of test tone will reveal it better than most music.

--Ethan

[audiobliss]

Sorry guys...after testing HDMI cables from monster,mono price,audioquest,belkin,and card as..on 15 k worth of a/v equipment ..the audioquest cables really stood out for sharpness,detail 3- d,etc
But...especially on sound quality..there was absolutely no contest..just try a audioquest chocolate or carbon HDMI, if you have hi quality geasr and I absolutely guarantee you WILL notice a very very good improvement!
Don't hurt to try!.. Guarantee you will Neva look back!

[Jhayman]

Sure they do if they were an anolog cable I might be inclinded to agree but its not its a digital signal and has been proven many many times even on my local news station they did an article proving that HDMI cables are no better than any other one's..
It's 1's and 0's either it works or it does not..The cable can't make the source better..

Originally Posted by audiobliss

Sorry guys...after testing HDMI cables from monster,mono price,audioquest,belkin,and card as..on 15 k worth of a/v equipment ..the audioquest cables really stood out for sharpness,detail 3- d,etc
But...especially on sound quality..there was absolutely no contest..just try a audioquest chocolate or carbon HDMI, if you have hi quality geasr and I absolutely guarantee you WILL notice a very very good improvement!
Don't hurt to try!.. Guarantee you will Neva look back!

[Bradman]

Originally Posted by audiobliss

Sorry guys...after testing HDMI cables from monster,mono price,audioquest,belkin,and card as..on 15 k worth of a/v equipment ..the audioquest cables really stood out for sharpness,detail 3- d,etc
But...especially on sound quality..there was absolutely no contest..just try a audioquest chocolate or carbon HDMI, if you have hi quality geasr and I absolutely guarantee you WILL notice a very very good improvement!
Don't hurt to try!.. Guarantee you will Neva look back!

Oh my...well, enjoy your cables.

[Neild]

Originally Posted by audiobliss

Don't hurt to try!.. Guarantee you will Neva look back!

I'll take you up on your guarantee. Send me some to try out and I'll post back about whether any difference can be found objectively.

[audiobliss]

Originally Posted by Neild

I'll take you up on your guarantee. Send me some to try out and I'll post back about whether any difference can be found objectively.

There are just way to many threads about this subject
Two sides of the fence. I do agree most HDMI cables show identical picture and sound
BUT there are many very very good ones out there that do improve the sound
And slightly the picture also..audioquest chocolate and definitely carbon are some of
The best sounding cables I have tested..they do use more silver as you go up in the series...I used the same bluray material for testing....I gave my monster cables
To my grandma...everyone always says its just ones and zeros..digital...
There should not be a difference, but there is..you just have to see and hear for yourself..HDMI cables are like car tires..they look the same,made from pretty much the same material ,get you from point a to point b..but are you gonna put the 50$ Kmart specials or the 200$ good years on your 67" chevelle?.. What hi-fi did a test a few months back,and found big differences in HDMI..and took a lot of slack from the nonbelievers.. All I'm saying is you really have to check out different cables for yourself and let your own eyes and ears make that call for you..not some guys in white jackets telling you its not possible!... Audioquest..straight wire.and wire world all are top notch sounding!.. It all might make a difference also in your system,I think the higher quality gear you have,the more noticeable the differences are.
Anthem pre-pro
Parasound halo amps
Oppo bd-103
Paradigm studio 60s
Velodyne spl-1000 sub
Sony 55" LCD
Cambridge audio 550 CD
Cambridge audio DAC/magic /upgraded pangea power supply
Straight wire crescendo speaker wire/interconnects
Pangea upgraded ac9 power cords
Audioquest carbon HDMI (3)
Furman elite power conditioner

[Remo]

Originally Posted by audiobliss

There are just way to many threads about this subject
Two sides of the fence. I do agree most HDMI cables show identical picture and sound
BUT there are many very very good ones out there that do improve the sound
And slightly the picture also..audioquest chocolate and definitely carbon are some of
The best sounding cables I have tested..they do use more silver as you go up in the series...I used the same bluray material for testing....I gave my monster cables
To my grandma...everyone always says its just ones and zeros..digital...
There should not be a difference, but there is..you just have to see and hear for yourself..HDMI cables are like car tires..they look the same,made from pretty much the same material ,get you from point a to point b..but are you gonna put the 50$ Kmart specials or the 200$ good years on your 67" chevelle?.. What hi-fi did a test a few months back,and found big differences in HDMI..and took a lot of slack from the nonbelievers.. All I'm saying is you really have to check out different cables for yourself and let your own eyes and ears make that call for you..not some guys in white jackets telling you its not possible!... Audioquest..straight wire.and wire world all are top notch sounding!.. It all might make a difference also in your system,I think the higher quality gear you have,the more noticeable the differences are.
Anthem pre-pro
Parasound halo amps
Oppo bd-103
Paradigm studio 60s
Velodyne spl-1000 sub
Sony 55" LCD
Cambridge audio 550 CD
Cambridge audio DAC/magic /upgraded pangea power supply
Straight wire crescendo speaker wire/interconnects
Pangea upgraded ac9 power cords
Audioquest carbon HDMI (3)
Furman elite power conditioner

So how does a HDMI cable make digital sound better, digital doesn't have a sound until its converted into analog?? As far as I know cables are not DACs.

[Spicoli]

Originally Posted by audiobliss

Sorry guys...after testing HDMI cables from monster,mono price,audioquest,belkin,and card as..on 15 k worth of a/v equipment ..the audioquest cables really stood out for sharpness,detail 3- d,etc
But...especially on sound quality..there was absolutely no contest..just try a audioquest chocolate or carbon HDMI, if you have hi quality geasr and I absolutely guarantee you WILL notice a very very good improvement!
Don't hurt to try!.. Guarantee you will Neva look back!

Lol. It's just ones and zeros being transferee. Ones and zeros. Your mind imagined that.

[Josh]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Re: Power Cables

Think about it logically. What difference could the 6' of power cable between the wall jack and your equipment possibly make when there's hundreds of feet of cable in your walls and out to the street?

I'm actually in the process of finding my first aftermarket power cable, and I read this argument recently on another forum. My thought is, I'm not trying to change the power "character" out in the street or in the walls of my home, I'm just trying to preserve the filtering my power conditioner has performed from between the power conditioner and into the devise.

We all know the optimal situation is zero cable (power, interconnect, etc). Second to that is a cable that doesn't lose anything between the devises. That cable doesn't and will never exist. So third is a cable that imposes the least amount of loss. That is where the money gets dropped and the arguments start.

So, is a $5,000 cable going to preserve power/signal better than a 50 cent cable. You bet. The insulation alone will help. However, if it makes a difference to your system and your ear is subjective. If you don't hear a difference, so be it, but there is nothing wrong with someone who does hear a difference. There is a huge industry for aftermarket cables - and its bigger than a "sucker market".

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Josh

There is a huge industry for aftermarket cables

Yes.

- and its bigger than a "sucker market".

Not necessarily.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Josh

So, is a $5,000 cable going to preserve power/signal better than a 50 cent cable. You bet. The insulation alone will help.

What specific parameter of the sound will be improved by replacing one competent power wire what another? Frequency response? Distortion? Background noise level? How specifically would the insulation of a power wire make an improvement? And if there was an improvement, do you think for some reason it won't show up in the standard tests for fidelity? More important, why don't "power product" vendors ever provide Before / After data showing improvement in these standard specs for the connected audio device?

there is nothing wrong with someone who does hear a difference.

Maybe you're aware that people will often report a difference in an A/A test where nothing was changed between one playing and the next? Everyone understands the placebo effect and accepts it's real, yet somehow audiophiles believe it never happens to them.

--Ethan

[Josh]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

What specific parameter of the sound will be improved by replacing one competent power wire what another? Frequency response? Distortion? Background noise level? How specifically would the insulation of a power wire make an improvement? And if there was an improvement, do you think for some reason it won't show up in the standard tests for fidelity? More important, why don't "power product" vendors ever provide Before / After data showing improvement in these standard specs for the connected audio device?

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD.html

Maybe you're aware that people will often report a difference in an A/A test where nothing was changed between one playing and the next? Everyone understands the placebo effect and accepts it's real, yet somehow audiophiles believe it never happens to them.

--Ethan

Agreed. There is some placebo affect that can take place, but not necessarily all the time.