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Old 02-25-2013, 06:01 PM   #21
jdrhjr jdrhjr is offline
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So, ok...if I'm understanding this right, I want to get easy to drive speakers because they're generally louder, right? So this way I won't have to turn my master volume up so high to get the "oomph!" from the audio that I want, and I won't be driving my amp into distortion, correct?

EDIT: I know I've said this already, but I really appreciate you guys' patience with helping out a complete n00b.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:45 PM   #22
Remo Remo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrhjr View Post
I went ahead and bought an SPL meter, calibrated the sound and I still don't like what I'm hearing. I think I just want to play my movies louder than my receiver is capable of outputting. It doesn't seem like I'm asking that much (like I said I run the master volume at around 59% of max and only during movies. I dial the volume knob back 10db for normal tv viewing and video games) unless I'm seriously overestimating what this receiver should be capable of delivering.
You adjusted each speaker level to where each speaker plays the test tone at 75db at your main seat? This may mean that each speaker level could be different. Example my Front main Left and right are at -10 but the surrounds are -8.5 for left the and -8 for the right.

Distances are set properly?

Subwoofer location for best sound?
|| AVR - Onkyo TX-NR1009 || Amps - Emotiva XPA-2 / Emotiva IPS-1 (7 Channel) || TV - Misubishi WD60737 || BD Player - Sony BDP-S790 || CD Player - Denon DCM-290 || Gaming - Modified PS3 Fat / Modified Wii / PS4 || Main L&R - Polk Audio Monitor 70II || Center - PolkAudio CS2II || Surround - Polk Audio Monitor 40II || Rear Surround - Polk Audio OWM3 || Front High -Polk Audio OWM3 || Subwoofer - 2 Polk Audio PSW505s || Harmony Ultimate Remote ||

Last edited by Remo; 02-25-2013 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:49 PM   #23
Ryan0503 Ryan0503 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrhjr View Post
I went ahead and bought an SPL meter, calibrated the sound and I still don't like what I'm hearing. I think I just want to play my movies louder than my receiver is capable of outputting. It doesn't seem like I'm asking that much (like I said I run the master volume at around 59% of max and only during movies. I dial the volume knob back 10db for normal tv viewing and video games) unless I'm seriously overestimating what this receiver should be capable of delivering.
It may be a conflict between your reciever and bluray player on which is handling the decoding
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:05 AM   #24
jdrhjr jdrhjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remo View Post
You adjusted each speaker level to where each speaker plays the test tone at 75db at your main seat? This may mean that each speaker level could be different. Example my Front main Left and right are at -10 but the surrounds are -8.5 for left the and -8 for the right.

Distances are set properly?

Subwoofer location for best sound?
Check, check and check. I think it may just be a matter of me having champagne taste with a kool-aid budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan0503 View Post
It may be a conflict between your reciever and bluray player on which is handling the decoding
Hmmm..is there anything I could do about that, aside from buying a new blu ray player or receiver?
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:19 AM   #25
BIslander BIslander is offline
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It may be a conflict between your reciever and bluray player on which is handling the decoding
No. Decoding is not a factor here. How could it be?

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Old 02-26-2013, 01:21 AM   #26
BIslander BIslander is offline
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No. Decoding is not a factor here. What kind of conflict do you mean?

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Old 02-26-2013, 10:39 PM   #27
Jim Hawkins Jim Hawkins is offline
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Default Forgot to ask

So I forgot to ask. What size room is this in? Can you get some pics? My guess is that you need better speakers but without a good idea on what your working with some of this advice is not going to be maximized.

Thanks!
TV/Bluray Player Panasonic TC-P55ST30, PS3 Slim 120 Gb
Receiver/Power Marantz SR5004, Yamaha M-45
SpeakersDali Ikon 1 front R & L, AV123 ELT Rocket center x2, Klipsch Synergy Quintets
Sub Klipsch RT 10D, RW 12D
HiFi Setup
Speakers: AV123 Rocket RS 760, Preamp: Marantz SR4023, Amp: Yamaha MX 800, Turntable: Project Debut III, Player: Elite DV-47Ai, Digital files: Vista machine using iTunes
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:19 AM   #28
Ryan0503 Ryan0503 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post
No. Decoding is not a factor here. How could it be?

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I had a similar issue ... turns out my bluray player was doing the decoding instead of my reciever ... once I changed the settings I didn't have to turn it up so loud
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:25 AM   #29
Remo Remo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post
No. Decoding is not a factor here. How could it be?

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2
Volume differences between components is why receivers have input level gain adjustments. The difference was very noticeable between my bluray decoding and my AVR decoding, until I level matched all my components.

Not that it is the case here, but it does and can happen.
|| AVR - Onkyo TX-NR1009 || Amps - Emotiva XPA-2 / Emotiva IPS-1 (7 Channel) || TV - Misubishi WD60737 || BD Player - Sony BDP-S790 || CD Player - Denon DCM-290 || Gaming - Modified PS3 Fat / Modified Wii / PS4 || Main L&R - Polk Audio Monitor 70II || Center - PolkAudio CS2II || Surround - Polk Audio Monitor 40II || Rear Surround - Polk Audio OWM3 || Front High -Polk Audio OWM3 || Subwoofer - 2 Polk Audio PSW505s || Harmony Ultimate Remote ||
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:34 PM   #30
jdrhjr jdrhjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hawkins View Post
So I forgot to ask. What size room is this in? Can you get some pics? My guess is that you need better speakers but without a good idea on what your working with some of this advice is not going to be maximized.

Thanks!
It's a small bedroom. 11x13.5 with an 8 foot ceiling.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:03 AM   #31
Jim Hawkins Jim Hawkins is offline
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Talking Speakers

SO I am blindly saying you need speakers. If you had like 10 to 20 actual watts going into each speaker in a room like that with even decent speakers it should be pretty close to blowing you out of the room.

I have a Yamaha power amp with watt meters and in my living room, which is basically connected to every other room in my house, and 5 actual watts is pretty loud.

What is the crossover set to for your sub? Is it at, at least 80 hz? I might go higher to see if you notice a difference. Like 100 or 120 Hz. Just to see if that makes any difference.

Do you have the speakers set to small in the speaker size? Small would be best.

Is your sub corner loaded? You might want to try that if you are not feeling a lot of impact. Not specifically the most musical way but usually a quick way to add boom.

Bottom line even if 130 watts is an exaggerated number it should still be enough in a room like that. Although "enough" is a relative thing.
TV/Bluray Player Panasonic TC-P55ST30, PS3 Slim 120 Gb
Receiver/Power Marantz SR5004, Yamaha M-45
SpeakersDali Ikon 1 front R & L, AV123 ELT Rocket center x2, Klipsch Synergy Quintets
Sub Klipsch RT 10D, RW 12D
HiFi Setup
Speakers: AV123 Rocket RS 760, Preamp: Marantz SR4023, Amp: Yamaha MX 800, Turntable: Project Debut III, Player: Elite DV-47Ai, Digital files: Vista machine using iTunes
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:15 AM   #32
BIslander BIslander is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan0503 View Post
I had a similar issue ... turns out my bluray player was doing the decoding instead of my reciever ... once I changed the settings I didn't have to turn it up so loud
Yes, a player may output PCM a few dB lower than the same track bitstreamed to a receiver or decoding. The word "conflict" between player and receiver decoding threw me.

While a more powerful receiver may help since it can produce the same loudness without distorting, it us my understanding that speaker sensitivity may be a more important factor. Your speakers could require considerably more power to produce the loudness level you want. With higher sensitivity speakers, your current receiver may have plenty of power.

Last edited by BIslander; 02-28-2013 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:49 PM   #33
jdrhjr jdrhjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hawkins View Post
SO I am blindly saying you need speakers. If you had like 10 to 20 actual watts going into each speaker in a room like that with even decent speakers it should be pretty close to blowing you out of the room.

I have a Yamaha power amp with watt meters and in my living room, which is basically connected to every other room in my house, and 5 actual watts is pretty loud.

What is the crossover set to for your sub? Is it at, at least 80 hz? I might go higher to see if you notice a difference. Like 100 or 120 Hz. Just to see if that makes any difference.

Do you have the speakers set to small in the speaker size? Small would be best.

Is your sub corner loaded? You might want to try that if you are not feeling a lot of impact. Not specifically the most musical way but usually a quick way to add boom.

Bottom line even if 130 watts is an exaggerated number it should still be enough in a room like that. Although "enough" is a relative thing.
Oh I'm getting plenty of impact from my sub. I don't have a problem there. My issue is with clarity. I don't want more volume per se, but I just want a more clean signal at my preferred listening level. And yes all of my speakers are set to small and my crossover for all channels (I can't set them individually) is 100hz. I've tried 120 but that sounds a little too thin to me.

Another update: I wound up picking up a SC 1222-K from Newegg for $550. It doesn't work properly (some kind of HDMI handshaking issue I think). lol So I'm back at square one now.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:26 PM   #34
BIslander BIslander is offline
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The handshake issue aside, did the new AVR give you the volume you want without distortion?

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Old 02-28-2013, 03:35 PM   #35
jdrhjr jdrhjr is offline
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To be honest, it sounded about the same as my HT-S5300 (current receiver). So no, it didn't give me the volume I want without distortion. It's going back to Newegg today, though. It serves me right. I should have just listened to you guys about the speakers.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:32 PM   #36
Jim Hawkins Jim Hawkins is offline
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Haha, no worries. You now have what we lovingly refer to as an "informed opinion". If you are looking for clarity you’re going to need to upgrade your speakers.

So next step is to come up with a budget for speakers. Best bet is to go to some shops (Hi Fi and big box stores like Best Buy) and see what you like. Then go online and read some reviews. Maybe check out other peoples galleries here to see if you see some common equipment. Might find some good values there.

You could also find Big Daddy and he will set you on the path of Righteousness. He has like 8 billion posts on speakers and all the Manufacturers. He and over a hundred other Audiophiles (prerich is awesome too) on this site could give some great advice.

May the Force be with you.
TV/Bluray Player Panasonic TC-P55ST30, PS3 Slim 120 Gb
Receiver/Power Marantz SR5004, Yamaha M-45
SpeakersDali Ikon 1 front R & L, AV123 ELT Rocket center x2, Klipsch Synergy Quintets
Sub Klipsch RT 10D, RW 12D
HiFi Setup
Speakers: AV123 Rocket RS 760, Preamp: Marantz SR4023, Amp: Yamaha MX 800, Turntable: Project Debut III, Player: Elite DV-47Ai, Digital files: Vista machine using iTunes
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:09 PM   #37
pentatonic pentatonic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrhjr View Post
To be honest, it sounded about the same as my HT-S5300 (current receiver). So no, it didn't give me the volume I want without distortion. It's going back to Newegg today, though. It serves me right. I should have just listened to you guys about the speakers.
Without wanting to say "We told you so" but why ask if you don't listen

But it's ok, it was the hard way to learn. So here is one of the golden rules: HTIB are usually crap all around, though some, like Yamaha and Onkyo sometimes at least give you a decent receiver, but all HTIB speakers aren't. there is no way of producing 5 speakers and a sub of quality for $600, let alone with a receiver, and outside of Yamaha no other HTIB companies make decent speakers (Pio and Sony do have some but not in a price range normal folks want to pay).

Your room is fairly small so the Onkyo has enough power for now. I forget but what is your budget for speakers and how much room do you have for them since size is of importance here. As an example I have bookshelves for surrounds that are about 14"x 7"x 10" and as my mains I also have bookshelves but they are 21"x 12"x 15" (it could be argued they're not really bookshelves but stand-mount but you get my point).

Last edited by pentatonic; 02-28-2013 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:19 PM   #38
Hillside Trece Hillside Trece is offline
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Originally Posted by jdrhjr View Post
I went ahead and bought an SPL meter, calibrated the sound and I still don't like what I'm hearing. I think I just want to play my movies louder than my receiver is capable of outputting. It doesn't seem like I'm asking that much (like I said I run the master volume at around 59% of max and only during movies. I dial the volume knob back 10db for normal tv viewing and video games) unless I'm seriously overestimating what this receiver should be capable of delivering.
Please see my comments about "IntelliVolume" in the other Onkyo thread I posted in near the top of this area's first page...
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:13 PM   #39
jdrhjr jdrhjr is offline
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Well, right now I just want to concentrate on the front three. We'll worry about surrounds later. I'm working with a budget around $1000 at the moment. I had my eye on some HTD speakers a while back. The Level 3 series center and bookshelves (I don't have room for floor standers) For all 3 if I recall correctly it was right around $500.

As far as the Intellivolume goes, I don't have anything by that name on my receiver, but it sounds a lot like Dynamic Volume. I've used that before and haven't really liked the way it sounded. Makes the bass sound really bloated.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:32 PM   #40
Hillside Trece Hillside Trece is offline
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Well, right now I just want to concentrate on the front three. We'll worry about surrounds later. I'm working with a budget around $1000 at the moment. I had my eye on some HTD speakers a while back. The Level 3 series center and bookshelves (I don't have room for floor standers) For all 3 if I recall correctly it was right around $500.

As far as the Intellivolume goes, I don't have anything by that name on my receiver, but it sounds a lot like Dynamic Volume. I've used that before and haven't really liked the way it sounded. Makes the bass sound really bloated.
You may not have the IntelliVolume on your Onkyo HTiB system; I'm not positive if the receivers packaged with those setups include the feature -- but it would be under SOURCE SETUP if you do have it (in the SETUP menu)...

This is TOTALLY different from your aforementioned Dynamic Volume, though.
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