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Old 02-23-2013, 08:59 PM   #141
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notops View Post
Have you actually watched the Aliens BD?

I ask because it is still grainy as shit. If you think Aliens proves your point, you may want to re-evaluate what you think grain is.
Absotruthly. Yes, Jimbo did say those things about removing all the grain and whatnot, but IMO he was just trying to add some marketing sizzle for the layman to get all excited about - which worried the shit out of the rest of us. Thankfully we got Aliens looking better than it ever would've done in 1986 (teal colour revision aside), grain and all. That said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impossible View Post
Cameron didn't use DNR though, he developed his own method of reducing grain without removing any image detail. Aliens looks great but it is still grainy. As long as image detail isn't lost I don't really care if he wipes his arse with it.
Aliens was processed by Lowry's proprietary system, which uses DNR to blitz away everything random in the image, leaving the detail intact, and then they lay fake grain over top of it so it looks like film again. (The same process was used for Terminator and Titanic, so Cameron is definitely a fan!) Sometimes this process works incredibly well, other times it leaves nasty frozen grain artefacts and other anomalies.

I wish my Top Gun would turn up so I can finally judge it for myself!
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:58 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Absotruthly. Yes, Jimbo did say those things about removing all the grain and whatnot, but IMO he was just trying to add some marketing sizzle for the layman to get all excited about - which worried the shit out of the rest of us. Thankfully we got Aliens looking better than Aliens was processed by Lowry's proprietary system, which uses DNR to blitz away everything random in the image, leaving the detail intact, and then they lay fake grain over top of it so it looks like film again. (The same process was used for Terminator and Titanic, so Cameron is definitely a fan!) Sometimes this process works incredibly well, other times it leaves nasty frozen grain artefacts and other anomalies.
I think if you want to know what image Cameron prefers, look at Avatar; Very clean digital video and completely grain free (the way God intended).

Regarding the Aliens remaster, I rewatched it yesterday and loved it for the most part. It doesn't have the impact and pristineness of newer films shot in digital, but it's darn good for an 80's action movie and much better video quality, IMO than films like Top Gun, which left the noise intact to appease the grain cult.

Cameron wasn't just blowing smoke up laymen's butts in talking about how he cleaned up the image.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:36 PM   #143
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Just finished watching and WOW this was an incredible 3D experience! I'm pretty sure from now on this will be my preferred viewing of Top Gun!
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:56 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Absotruthly. Yes, Jimbo did say those things about removing all the grain and whatnot, but IMO he was just trying to add some marketing sizzle for the layman to get all excited about - which worried the shit out of the rest of us. Thankfully we got Aliens looking better than it ever would've done in 1986 (teal colour revision aside), grain and all. That said...


Aliens was processed by Lowry's proprietary system, which uses DNR to blitz away everything random in the image, leaving the detail intact, and then they lay fake grain over top of it so it looks like film again. (The same process was used for Terminator and Titanic, so Cameron is definitely a fan!) Sometimes this process works incredibly well, other times it leaves nasty frozen grain artefacts and other anomalies.

I wish my Top Gun would turn up so I can finally judge it for myself!
Well I was just going by what he said at the time, that they'd worked out a way to remove all the grain, but retain the detail. I do however still think they removed a lot of grain as the bluray is nowhere near as grainy as the DVD was.

As I said early on I am using a projector with a 100' screen (as is the other person whinging the loudest lol) so the anomalies in Top Gun are magnified ten fold. Obviously it isn't as bad on smaller screens or there wouldn't be people saying it doesn't look that bad.

I had that problem with Grease which I thought looked great on my 42" plasma, but blown through my projector it looked atrocious and I took it back. My tv isn't 3D though so I can't check if it is any better on that. On another site I have seen people say the grain and colour grade looked horrible at the IMAX screenings as well.

Last edited by Impossible; 02-24-2013 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:55 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impossible View Post
Well he did jump off a roof a week later which is what I felt like doing after being swindled out of 25 for this pile of shit.

Watch the VHS, watch the DVD, download it from iTunes, watch the 2D version. The film has NEVER looked like this before end of story.

I will repeat, I don't care who did what it looks like crap. If you're willing to accept mediocrity when you hand over your cash that's fine, I don't
Comparing it to inferior formats that came before is asinine. Blu is the only format that can preserve what it actually looked like projected during it's theatrical run. If you don't like the way film looks, fine, but stop saying it has never looked this way. You obviously have not seen it on film.

All currently available versions in HD (the 2D Blu-ray, HDX on Vudu, HD on Amazon or Netflix) are based off of the DNR'd & EE'd transfer for the 2D Blu.

And the Tony Scott suicide joke... classy.

Last edited by notops; 02-24-2013 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:42 AM   #146
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My Top Gun 3d party went awesome! Good times, good food, good drinks, and a room of stoked 80's kids.

Here's my review now that I watched the entire film: Awesome!

Most mentioned comment through said party: I can't believe Top Gun is in 3d!

And really, this was just..... Wild. It's Top Gun. In 3d! Legitimate 3d! Loved it!

About the ongoing butthurt over grain, I noticed intense grain over 2 scenes only, intro and goose's death, which his scene cut to a silky smooth grainless scene. So I do think it was an added effect, but done like the depth script (read about this conversion) - written in to the moment. Didn't bug me one bit, the movie was A ride front to back. Legend was given artistic freedom to control the 3d intensity, the grain in those 2 scenes IMO were most likely part of said freedom.

So! Awesome conversion, classic movie.. I'm pleased
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:13 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsmith82 View Post
My Top Gun 3d party went awesome! Good times, good food, good drinks, and a room of stoked 80's kids.

Here's my review now that I watched the entire film: Awesome!

Most mentioned comment through said party: I can't believe Top Gun is in 3d!

And really, this was just..... Wild. It's Top Gun. In 3d! Legitimate 3d! Loved it!

About the ongoing butthurt over grain, I noticed intense grain over 2 scenes only, intro and goose's death, which his scene cut to a silky smooth grainless scene. So I do think it was an added effect, but done like the depth script (read about this conversion) - written in to the moment. Didn't bug me one bit, the movie was A ride front to back. Legend was given artistic freedom to control the 3d intensity, the grain in those 2 scenes IMO were most likely part of said freedom.

So! Awesome conversion, classic movie.. I'm pleased
Glad your party went well. I'm class of '86 myself,lol.

Just finished watching this as well on my projector (124"). I thought the 3D was better than average. Make no mistake....the arieal footage is what the 3D in this flick is all about....and it was awesome. Rest of the movie: some decent depth here and there and few and far between. Grain? Oh yeah....it's there. But not as much as I had read and there were many scenes where I didn't see any grain.

All in all: a good 3D conversion and not as ugly (pertaining to the grain) as you may have heard,imo. I enjoyed it and it was easily worth the $20.
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:27 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impossible View Post
Well I was just going by what he said at the time, that they'd worked out a way to remove all the grain, but retain the detail. I do however still think they removed a lot of grain as the bluray is nowhere near as grainy as the DVD was.
Apples and oranges. The Aliens DVD was slathered in chunky noise from the DNR used to clean up the movie for the 1999 transfer. That's in no way comparable to the excellent high-frequency detail - inc. grain - visible on the Blu-ray, which was derived from a brand new 4K master.
Quote:
As I said early on I am using a projector with a 100' screen (as is the other person whinging the loudest lol) so the anomalies in Top Gun are magnified ten fold. Obviously it isn't as bad on smaller screens or there wouldn't be people saying it doesn't look that bad.
And then we get a comment from someone with a screen even bigger than yours who said that the grain didn't bother them. Weird, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boulder_bum View Post
I think if you want to know what image Cameron prefers, look at Avatar; Very clean digital video and completely grain free (the way God intended).

Regarding the Aliens remaster, I rewatched it yesterday and loved it for the most part. It doesn't have the impact and pristineness of newer films shot in digital, but it's darn good for an 80's action movie and much better video quality, IMO than films like Top Gun, which left the noise intact to appease the grain cult.

Cameron wasn't just blowing smoke up laymen's butts in talking about how he cleaned up the image.
Avatar is what it is, digital video interspersed with entirely CG sequences shot some 12 years after Cameron lensed Titanic. On Film. Like all of his previous features. Things move on, and to use Avatar as an arbiter as to what Cameron "prefers" in reference to the look of his previous movies is utterly absurd.

I don't know if you watch everything with the noise reduction on your display whacked up to max, but the Aliens Blu-ray is grainy as ****. It's fine grain - probably not even the same as what was originally captured, owing to Lowry's degrain/regrain techniques - but the image is literally awash with the stuff. If you can stomach that, then maybe you're not so averse to grain as you first thought...

Last edited by Geoff D; 02-24-2013 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:12 PM   #149
Taygan315 Taygan315 is offline
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My dad flew for the Navy so this flick always reminds me of him (RIP Dad...love you). He lost a good friend and fellow pilot attempting to land on a sea carrier...just like you see in the movie. He missed the line and went over the ship. My dad would tell me he used to drink with some of the Blue Angels as well.

Yeah...this movie is always a pleasure to see for me.
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Old 02-25-2013, 04:25 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Avatar is what it is, digital video interspersed with entirely CG sequences shot some 12 years after Cameron lensed Titanic. On Film. Like all of his previous features. Things move on, and to use Avatar as an arbiter as to what Cameron "prefers" in reference to the look of his previous movies is utterly absurd.

I don't know if you watch everything with the noise reduction on your display whacked up to max, but the Aliens Blu-ray is grainy as ****. It's fine grain - probably not even the same as what was originally captured, owing to Lowry's degrain/regrain techniques - but the image is literally awash with the stuff. If you can stomach that, then maybe you're not so averse to grain as you first thought...
Look, Cameron took pride in "denoising" and removing grain in Aliens and shoots his new films in clean digital. If he had to shoot Aliens again today, I'd bet strongly that he'd be breaking out digital cameras.

I do have my set's DNR on the middle setting and haven't watched it on my projector yet, but it seems like a decent transfer to me (at least for an 80s movie). There were only a few times when I noticed some heavy grain (which immediately distracted me from the fantasy world to focus on noise artifacts).

When grain and noise are as bad as in Top Gun, I'd rather someone take a digital scrubber to it, even though I think it's still worth buying. If an Aliens style transfer is a compromise for the grain lovers, that's fine by me.

I'd still rather see new movies that are shot on digital, though.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:29 PM   #151
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Australia Top Gun info link

Whilst waiting for it to be released in oz here on the 6th of march, I came across these articles giving great info on the conversion process done by Legend 3D -

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/column...y-danger-zones &

http://www.fxguide.com/featured/back...ne-top-gun-3d/


Last edited by sookymonster; 02-26-2013 at 06:43 PM. Reason: extra link
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:44 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boulder_bum View Post
Look, Cameron took pride in "denoising" and removing grain in Aliens and shoots his new films in clean digital. If he had to shoot Aliens again today, I'd bet strongly that he'd be breaking out digital cameras.

I do have my set's DNR on the middle setting and haven't watched it on my projector yet, but it seems like a decent transfer to me (at least for an 80s movie). There were only a few times when I noticed some heavy grain (which immediately distracted me from the fantasy world to focus on noise artifacts).

When grain and noise are as bad as in Top Gun, I'd rather someone take a digital scrubber to it, even though I think it's still worth buying. If an Aliens style transfer is a compromise for the grain lovers, that's fine by me.

I'd still rather see new movies that are shot on digital, though.
A scrubber wouldn't have fixed the terrible colour timing which is the bigger problem
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:56 PM   #153
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a scrubber wouldn't have fixed the terrible colour timing which is the bigger problem
+1
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:02 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsmith82 View Post
My Top Gun 3d party went awesome! Good times, good food, good drinks, and a room of stoked 80's kids.

Here's my review now that I watched the entire film: Awesome!

Most mentioned comment through said party: I can't believe Top Gun is in 3d!

And really, this was just..... Wild. It's Top Gun. In 3d! Legitimate 3d! Loved it!

About the ongoing butthurt over grain, I noticed intense grain over 2 scenes only, intro and goose's death, which his scene cut to a silky smooth grainless scene. So I do think it was an added effect, but done like the depth script (read about this conversion) - written in to the moment. Didn't bug me one bit, the movie was A ride front to back. Legend was given artistic freedom to control the 3d intensity, the grain in those 2 scenes IMO were most likely part of said freedom.

So! Awesome conversion, classic movie.. I'm pleased
That's terrific I really wish I had bought it when I saw it at target last week or so ago for 20 bucks. Not the price is 25 or more at most
Places
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:22 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by mseeley View Post
That's terrific I really wish I had bought it when I saw it at target last week or so ago for 20 bucks. Not the price is 25 or more at most
Places
Check Best Buy - That's where I picked mine up at, 19.99.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:39 PM   #156
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Picked this up and watched it recently and thought it looked very nice. The depth was beautiful, although it appeared this wasnt given a new transfer for the 3d version, it still looked great imo.
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:24 AM   #157
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This doesn't even look like film grain, it looks like watching cable in the 90's with a bad analog connection. True film grain doesn't have white flecks in dark scenes. I couldn't even finish it, I ejected the disc about 45 minutes in & finished watching the 2D version (which looks fine).

I don't usually buy conversions, but I thought this one would be cool. I will be much, much more wary in the future.
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:34 AM   #158
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There are some terribly grainy scenes. No doubt about it. (Two, I think...) But I didn't think this was NEARLY as bad as many are saying. The picture was fine most of the movie and the 3D was much stronger than I expected.
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Old 03-03-2013, 07:31 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by b00st View Post
couldn't agree more.
I thought the film looked "too grainy" for my liking, so I switched the picture setting to THX Cinema 3D and it took all the hardcore grain away while leaving just enough that was intended, I was pleasantly surprised. 3D was very well done for this movie, definitely a must watch in 3D. I'm really glad Top Gun turned out really good.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:13 PM   #160
sookymonster sookymonster is offline
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Thumbs up Finally..

got to watch this tonight and was very impressed with the conversion efforts. There was lots of negative parralax which surprised me as no-one has mentioned it.

I really did not find the grain a problem at all,some bits seemed like it was not even there, it was that good, and the colour also seemed fine. The only orange I detected was from the sun when the jets were flying near dusk!

The sound was awesome with the jets zooming through my living room.

As for the actual movie, it was ok, a little dated but you would expect that for a 28 year old movie.

So well done Legend for a great conversion
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