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Old 02-25-2013, 06:17 PM   #881
Steedeel Steedeel is online now
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
Steedeel, U.K. likes their 4K prospects -
http://procam.tv/4k-or-not-4k---event
Nice, that's what I like to see
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:46 PM   #882
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I, for one, think 4k is going to be pointless. How far away did we sit from the TV when they were 480i CRTs? Pretty far. Motion was fluid because the steps between each frame of a 24 FPS movie was not very much distance. Now that we have 50 inch screens and the resolution to allow us to get close to them, 24 FPS is a horrible problem. Every display technology now operates in a peak-and-hold manner, while film is meant to be light for 1/48 second and dark for another 1/48. The eye tracks motion and moves. With a peak-and-hold display the eye is moving while there is still a picture on the screen. It forms a judder. With film the eye is moving while there is nothing being displayed. No problem. Even on my 42" plasma from about 8 feet away, pans are utterly horrible and action scenes are impossible to look at.

4k is going to make the problem even more ridiculous because we will have screens like 80 inches allowing us to sit a few feet away from them. The steps between each frame will be larger. We really do need movies to be shot in at least 60 FPS. 120 FPS would be ideal if people matured and stopped thinking without evidence that professional cinematographers will let their movies end up looking like cheap soaps.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:26 PM   #883
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Nice, that's what I like to see
4K is bleeding edge . 4K and HFR (at least for sports ) is cutting edge .

Come the day when your bones are too old to make the trek to the Stadium of Light to watch your Sunderland football club pass that soccer ball around, you’ll appreciate when 4K broadcast is also accompanied by higher frame rate exhibition/display in-the-home, as the increased temporal resolution will add to greater perceived resolution of fast moving subjects and objects... http://digitalcinemasociety.org/down...RANDHIGHER.pdf

And then after a combination of the above is achieved, the Holy Grail becomes HDR (high dynamic range) displays…a topic left for another day.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:32 PM   #884
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Originally Posted by Steedeel View Post
Nice, that's what I like to see
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
4K is bleeding edge . 4K and HFR (at least for sports ) is cutting edge .

Come the day when your bones are too old to make the trek to the Stadium of Light to watch your Sunderland football club pass that soccer ball around, you’ll appreciate when 4K broadcast is also accompanied by higher frame rate exhibition/display in-the-home, as the increased temporal resolution will add to greater perceived resolution of fast moving subjects and objects... http://digitalcinemasociety.org/down...RANDHIGHER.pdf

And then after a combination of the above is achieved, the Holy Grail becomes HDR (high dynamic range) displays…a topic left for another day.
We don't pass it now! Just give it away
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:34 PM   #885
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...120 FPS would be ideal if people matured and stopped thinking without evidence that professional cinematographers will let their movies end up looking like cheap soaps.
Until after The Hobbit had its theatrical release, I must admit I was completely clueless to the plethora of audio/video forum posters (and tech journalists, for that matter) who are/were soap opera watchers….as I must have read that reference hundreds of times by now.

Embarrassingly, I must admit, I have never watched even one episode of any soap opera so I can’t contribute to the notion. All I know is that some threads in the Blu-ray Technology and News Forum have become soap operas, which I guess speaks to some warped sense of online social engagement.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:37 PM   #886
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We don't pass it now! Just give it away
I've avoided reading the Premier League thread because I have several matches recorded on the DVR to catch-up on. Please pass on the info to Tob.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:39 PM   #887
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I've avoided reading the Premier League thread because I have several matches recorded on the DVR to catch-up on. Please pass on the info to Tob.
Consider it done.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:41 PM   #888
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After last night’s Academy Awards show, just wondering …http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....ar#post5716925

if I should go back and edit by bolding the words ‘pure cinematography’, ‘VFX’, ‘Directing' in the post referenced and linked to in the second paragraph here…
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....ng#post7157846

Between Sugar and Pi, it sure was a sweet night.
For those who are too 'smart' or 'sophisticated' to have wasted their time in watching the Academy Awards last night and therefore unable to make the *connection* with “Sugar”, here ya go

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Old 02-27-2013, 04:12 AM   #889
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What movies use sony's F65 camera? I hardly see any. I heard its suppose to be the best....
http://www.imdb.com/list/hPGxeEKmY2Y/

As well as this shortie …http://vimeo.com/50643185

which was shot by this Cinematographer
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005936/
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:19 PM   #890
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bones...
and beyond 'bones', 4K DCP of this pic from this dude…
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/video?id=9005890
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:28 PM   #891
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Although not shot with a true 4K digital camera (or at equivalent celluloid resolution)…another movie for “the planet earth” http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/video?id=9005596

Which ^ includes a recognition/ appreciation for VFX artists by the Director, given all the angst… http://www.deadline.com/2013/02/vfx-...ad-their-case/
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:24 PM   #892
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I, for one, think 4k is going to be pointless. How far away did we sit from the TV when they were 480i CRTs? Pretty far. Motion was fluid because the steps between each frame of a 24 FPS movie was not very much distance. Now that we have 50 inch screens and the resolution to allow us to get close to them, 24 FPS is a horrible problem. Every display technology now operates in a peak-and-hold manner, while film is meant to be light for 1/48 second and dark for another 1/48. The eye tracks motion and moves. With a peak-and-hold display the eye is moving while there is still a picture on the screen. It forms a judder. With film the eye is moving while there is nothing being displayed. No problem. Even on my 42" plasma from about 8 feet away, pans are utterly horrible and action scenes are impossible to look at.

4k is going to make the problem even more ridiculous because...
Sorry, but I think that some of your assertions are laced with hyperbole. Best to see if you can find a retailer who is showing some native non-action sports 4K content on a 4K display and you may change your analysis as to the magnitude of the problem.

But, you do make a good point in so far as it’s best to match static and dynamic resolution by shooting/presenting at higher frames rates…at least for certain content, as mentioned back in Jan. - http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....ic#post7013442

b.t.w., theater-goers should expect a high frame rate trailer (which would be a commercial industry ‘first’) to precede a feature film presentation sometime this year.
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Last edited by Penton-Man; 02-28-2013 at 05:26 PM. Reason: bolded a word
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:45 PM   #893
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4k is going to enable closer viewing distances. That's all it offers. Staying at 24 fps while getting closer to the screen is going to make the judder worse. Even slow pans on a 42" TV from 8 feet away make me cringe. Also, 48 fps solves nothing. There is no format to support it, and you need a 240 Hz TV to display an even cadence. A logical choice for higher frame rates would be 60 fps. It would bet better than 48, and match up to 60, 120, and 240 Hz displays. Blu-ray supports 720p60 and 1080i60. 1080i60 would be just fine for those who think 720p is unacceptable. What we also need is to get away from this forced 4:2:0 nonsense. A movie in 1080i60 and 4:2:2 would be awesome.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:29 PM   #894
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http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/28/40...plus-downloads

Penton man, (or anyone) what do you make of that?
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:01 PM   #895
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Originally Posted by ramicio View Post
4k is going to enable closer viewing distances. That's all it offers. Staying at 24 fps while getting closer to the screen is going to make the judder worse. Even slow pans on a 42" TV from 8 feet away make me cringe...
lol, I think you made known your sensitivity to ‘judder’ quite evident with your first post here. And I’m somewhat familiar with camera pan speeds (the typical being 5-10 deg/sec) and how best to avoid them, i.e. keep the S/F ratio < 0.4…where S = degrees of visual angle/second and F = frames/sec.

Since you’re a ‘display’ type guy and interested in motion artifacts, refer to this classic paper from the Journal of the Society for Information Display by Hoffman et. al. https://sites.google.com/site/davidh...l-JSID2011.pdf

My point was that, for all types of 4K acquired content, you are exaggerating the effect that increasing the spatial resolution will have without a concurrent increase in temporal resolution…..at least for the typical TV viewer, not as sensitized as yourself.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:09 PM   #896
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Also, 48 fps solves nothing. There is no format to support it, and you need a...
You’re preaching to the choir , at least on this thread, for this is but one of multiple posts I’ve made expressing that same sentiment…http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....im#post6832063

Other postings being located in the ‘display’ or my Insider’s Thread from before you became a member of this forum. Hey, I’m on your *side* , if it were, as being an advocate of eventual higher (> 48) frame acquisition and presentation but keep in mind, at any rate, there will come a day that even the most skeptical 4K critics will look back upon the introduction and sales of initial consumer 4K tv’s as being, at the very least, a necessary prerequisite stepping stone in the progression towards a more optimal home-viewing experience with digital displays.

And if Saprano’s Kuro imminently bites the dust, apparently Panasonic spokesperson is claiming that they will be offering their 56” 4K OLED to consumers sometime this summer.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:18 PM   #897
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Originally Posted by Steedeel View Post
http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/28/40...plus-downloads

Penton man, (or anyone) what do you make of that?
Sorry Steedeal, see… http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....hu#post7189958

All I can say is that Ode had better offer something more than landscape and animal REDRAY 4K content…and get over the flu soon. … https://twitter.com/ODEMAX
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:21 PM   #898
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Sorry Steedeal, see… http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....hu#post7189958

All I can say is that Ode had better offer something more than landscape and animal REDRAY 4K content…and get over the flu soon. … https://twitter.com/ODEMAX
Oh, ok missed that post. Very interesting read
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:26 PM   #899
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Yeah, as an aside, I forgot to mention this one too…http://www.irell.com/matters-item-23.html
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:49 PM   #900
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I think if we went with something like 1080p60 it would give 4k24 a run for its money. Temporal resolution will affect spatial resolution even on a still picture. With less motion blur the picture will be sharper during motion. 4k120 would be overkill for now, but it really should be the end-all as far as home video is concerned. The world seems to be steering towards shrinking bandwidth of a/v streams despite storage capacities and connection speeds increasing. I hope holographic discs push towards lossless video. Several TB should be enough for lossless 4k60.
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