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Old 02-23-2013, 12:23 AM   #981
RocShemp RocShemp is offline
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Well I own an Empire with a dead amp. My attempts to contact Epik include calling countless times, leaving four or five voice mail messages, and sending a couple emails. Now that I have researched the issue It appears I might have to give up and buy an external amp in order to salvage this thing. Any recommendations for an external amp that will perform at least as good as the factory plate amp?
A Behringer EPX4000 is great at running two Epik Legends. I assume it should do just fine with one Empire.
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:36 AM   #982
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Is there a cheaper alternative? I really don't want to spend 400 on a 700 sub.
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:42 PM   #983
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Is there a cheaper alternative? I really don't want to spend 400 on a 700 sub.
Ask BigDaddy. I recall that he listed in his pro amp thread a really cheap pro amp (less than $200) that might have been able to do the trick. However, that one is currently discontinued. But I'm sure BD might be able to give you other alternatives.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:08 PM   #984
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Now, I may be going crazy, but my Epik doesn't feel as powerful as it used to.

Or maybe it's just me.

Is there a way to quantitatively measure this? There's no such thing as "progressive failure" of a subwoofer, is there?

If an amp goes bad, it just goes bad and dies, correct? I feel both the drivers still pushing air, but if one goes out, wouldnt it start acting as a radiator anyway?
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:26 PM   #985
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Is there a cheaper alternative? I really don't want to spend 400 on a 700 sub.
The Behringer iNuke 1000 is 199.00 it only puts out 150 watts into 8 ohms...but that's stereo. Since you will be using it as a sub amp - bridge it to 500w @ 8ohms (1000 watts @ 4ohms). That should tie you over for a sub amp.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:29 PM   #986
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Originally Posted by JJ View Post
Now, I may be going crazy, but my Epik doesn't feel as powerful as it used to.

Or maybe it's just me.

Is there a way to quantitatively measure this? There's no such thing as "progressive failure" of a subwoofer, is there?

If an amp goes bad, it just goes bad and dies, correct? I feel both the drivers still pushing air, but if one goes out, wouldnt it start acting as a radiator anyway?
Caps on your amp could be bad (leaking). I've seen this in amps and computer motherboards.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:24 PM   #987
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Originally Posted by JJ View Post
Now, I may be going crazy, but my Epik doesn't feel as powerful as it used to.

Or maybe it's just me.

Is there a way to quantitatively measure this? There's no such thing as "progressive failure" of a subwoofer, is there?

If an amp goes bad, it just goes bad and dies, correct? I feel both the drivers still pushing air, but if one goes out, wouldnt it start acting as a radiator anyway?

To measure this you would either a)have a measured baseline performance metric available to compare the new data(for example, having measurements you performed when initially setting up the sub). b)be able to repeat the methods used to gather the data that is published (data-bass).

Usually the amp on a powered subwoofer is either pass/fail. It either work at/near 100% or it doesn't work at all. Your drivers are wired in parallel so yes, one could fail and the other will work normally. The failed unit may act a a PR....depends on what exactly failed.

Has anything in the system changed? I'd double check all the settings in the receiver/processor. Be sure no "midnight mode" or "dynamic EQ" modes are enabled for example.

Tom V.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:06 PM   #988
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Originally Posted by Tom V. View Post
To measure this you would either a)have a measured baseline performance metric available to compare the new data(for example, having measurements you performed when initially setting up the sub). b)be able to repeat the methods used to gather the data that is published (data-bass).

Usually the amp on a powered subwoofer is either pass/fail. It either work at/near 100% or it doesn't work at all. Your drivers are wired in parallel so yes, one could fail and the other will work normally. The failed unit may act a a PR....depends on what exactly failed.

Has anything in the system changed? I'd double check all the settings in the receiver/processor. Be sure no "midnight mode" or "dynamic EQ" modes are enabled for example.

Tom V.
Tom,

I had restarted my settings when I redid my system two weeks back. Maybe somehow I pushed the wrong button or accidentally moved the gain on the Epik sub.

But since I have no metrics to quantify before and after performance - I suppose no true verification is possible. Just "gut feeling."

And that's what I was thinking about the amp. It is either pass or fail, I assumed.

I'll just have to test it a bit more this weekend. All these issues w/ Epik maybe got into my head. Folks jumping ship left and right.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:43 PM   #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ View Post
All these issues w/ Epik maybe got into my head. Folks jumping ship left and right.
I still love me Legends

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Old 02-27-2013, 05:04 PM   #990
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Tom,

I had restarted my settings when I redid my system two weeks back. Maybe somehow I pushed the wrong button or accidentally moved the gain on the Epik sub.

But since I have no metrics to quantify before and after performance - I suppose no true verification is possible. Just "gut feeling."

And that's what I was thinking about the amp. It is either pass or fail, I assumed.

I'll just have to test it a bit more this weekend. All these issues w/ Epik maybe got into my head. Folks jumping ship left and right.

It could be progressive amp issues, but those tend to be uncommon in powered subs.

Be sure all speakers are set to small, their crossovers are still the same(80hz works well). I'm assuming the sub placement or seating positioning hasn't changed. Double check that the crossover knob on the sub is maxxed out(or bypassed) too. Never hurts to experiment a bit with the phase control when you have too.

Tom V.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:16 PM   #991
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Originally Posted by Tom V. View Post
Be sure all speakers are set to small, their crossovers are still the same(80hz works well). I'm assuming the sub placement or seating positioning hasn't changed. Double check that the crossover knob on the sub is maxxed out(or bypassed) too. Never hurts to experiment a bit with the phase control when you have too.

Tom V.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:05 PM   #992
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Oh come now, come now, I'm no rookie,
Hey JJ one possibility is the sub could now be out of phase with the new speakers that you bought. Can you go into the AVR and change the distance setting either farther away or closer than actual distance of the sub from your LP then listen to a song that has a good strong bass beat....say something like electronica type music? This should confirm whether the sub is starting to fail.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:16 PM   #993
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Oh come now, come now, I'm no rookie,
Always check the easiest things first. I can't tell you how many times I have been "waist deep" in trouble shooting various acoustic/electrical problems----both work and home related. Only to eventually discover it was something so basic I skipped it initially. Not to mention receiver/CPUs can reset without you even knowing it at times..

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Old 02-27-2013, 08:50 PM   #994
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Quote:
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Hey JJ one possibility is the sub could now be out of phase with the new speakers that you bought. Can you go into the AVR and change the distance setting either farther away or closer than actual distance of the sub from your LP then listen to a song that has a good strong bass beat....say something like electronica type music? This should confirm whether the sub is starting to fail.
Dagnabit.

I can't believe it never occurred to me to check this. Thanks Al,

I haven't really even done any troubleshooting beyond playing with the gain and channel level.

So, Tom V., you were right about forgetting the easiest things!
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:41 PM   #995
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Dagnabit.

I can't believe it never occurred to me to check this. Thanks Al,

I haven't really even done any troubleshooting beyond playing with the gain and channel level.

So, Tom V., you were right about forgetting the easiest things!
That's cool buddy. I'm always looking out to help where I can. Let me know if it makes a difference.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:50 AM   #996
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That's cool buddy. I'm always looking out to help where I can. Let me know if it makes a difference.
Al - you were right. The Pioneer had it placed at 7'10" when it's just at 5'7" from my listening position. Switched out the subwoofer cable I was using (some whatever brand I had because my BJC one from my old system didn't reach) - to a new BlueJeansCable one, and that did the trick and brought my OOMPH back. Switching out the cable was more a "do it just because" thing.

Sheesh.
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:20 AM   #997
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Originally Posted by JJ View Post
Al - you were right. The Pioneer had it placed at 7'10" when it's just at 5'7" from my listening position. Switched out the subwoofer cable I was using (some whatever brand I had because my BJC one from my old system didn't reach) - to a new BlueJeansCable one, and that did the trick and brought my OOMPH back. Switching out the cable was more a "do it just because" thing.

Sheesh.
JJ,

I am a bit uncomfortable with your post. I believe that the location of a subwoofer can make a difference. Even when you move a subwoofer as little as a foot or so, you may hear good bass or no bass. Additionally, a bad cable or defects in the subwoofer's amp or driver can affect the bass. However, let's be clear about the subwoofer's distance from your listening area as reported by the auto calibration program inside the receiver.

The following paragraphs are what I have mentioned in the Audyssey thread. The original source is Chris Kyriakakis from Audyssey and a Professor at USC.

Quote:
You may notice that Audyssey has reported a much longer distance between your subwoofer and the listening position or a significantly shorter distance between the two. This problem arises because Audyssey MultEQ does not actually measure the distance between the subwoofer and the listening area. It measures signal delay. This delay consist of:
  • The time it takes for sound to travel in the air to the microphone.
  • The electrical delay in the signal inside the subwoofer:
    • Any type of filter in the sub introduces delay.
    • Any type of DSP processing in the subwoofer introduces delay.
    • The interaction of the woofer and the port in in a subwoofer can also cause problems. This interaction can also cause polarity reversal warnings.
Because of these delays, it is quite normal to see longer distances reported for the subwoofer. You should leave it as MultEQ found it.

When the reported distance is much shorter than the physical distance, then you should worry. Something else has caused that. The most likely cause is vibrations that travel to the microphone through a solid surface such as the floor or the sofa/seat. Sound travels faster in solids than it does in air and this can cause the short readings. The only alternative you have is to try is to make sure that the microphone is isolated from any vibrating surfaces. Avoid placing it on the edge of the listening sofa. Also, move the subwoofer to a different location or isolate it from the vibrations by using a riser.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:28 PM   #998
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Al - you were right. The Pioneer had it placed at 7'10" when it's just at 5'7" from my listening position. Switched out the subwoofer cable I was using (some whatever brand I had because my BJC one from my old system didn't reach) - to a new BlueJeansCable one, and that did the trick and brought my OOMPH back. Switching out the cable was more a "do it just because" thing.

Sheesh.
Well maybe I was right or maybe not. First did you change the cable then listen to the system before making a distance setting change or did you change both variables at the same time? It could have been you had a loose connection either at the AVR or the sub and when you changed the cable you just so happen to make a better connection. As Big Daddy posted usually the distace setting in the AVR is longer than actual distance when you only have one subwoofer in the room. But I also have seen dips at the crossover region (by using measuring equipment) where the distance setting had to be changed to a different distance....some times shorter and sometimes even farther away so all of the speakers are in phase. Ayway I'm relieved that the sub amp was not the issue.
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:25 PM   #999
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Oh gotdamnit. Now my...Jeez.

I had no idea that was a quirk of calibration programs.

I'm going to go and resolve this this afternoon w/ me trusty SPL meter and me ear.

See what all the variables are.

Truth be told, the sub hasn't moved at all since I first bought it. Not even a half inch. It's tough to move a 120 lb behemoth. So it can't be location -

I'll go test the distances individually, re-switch out the cables, and see what I discover.
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:52 PM   #1000
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Oh gotdamnit. Now my...Jeez.

I had no idea that was a quirk of calibration programs.

I'm going to go and resolve this this afternoon w/ me trusty SPL meter and me ear.

See what all the variables are.

Truth be told, the sub hasn't moved at all since I first bought it. Not even a half inch. It's tough to move a 120 lb behemoth. So it can't be location -

I'll go test the distances individually, re-switch out the cables, and see what I discover.
What is your crossover set at? Whichever it is say 60hz then you can play a 60 hz test tone using your SPL meter....increase the distance and take a reading to see if you get an increase in spl output till you find the right distance. Or use a song with alot of bass like I suggested before.
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