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Old 05-06-2013, 01:42 AM   #321
Oblivion138 Oblivion138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromc69 View Post
Guys seriously i never want to hear the name Jackie chan on a Phantasm forum again. First off Cliff is doing great work im buying most of the Scream factory blu rays , they have great special features and look great. The people trying to say his just putting SD quality on a blu ray disk are blind or plane ignorant. Lets get back to talking about Phantasm and once again if you want to mention Jackie Chan go to one of his forums.
If Don Coscarelli approved this Phantasm II transfer, I'm sad to say he's the one who's going blind.

To be clear, I do not throw the word "upscale" around, and I'm sick of people who do. 90% of the time, when people do throw the word around willy-nilly to describe any transfer that disappoints them, I correct them. But every once in a while, even those people are right. And they're right about this one. Phantasm II is an upscale. Sad but true. BD offers less compression than DVD, but there isn't a shred more image detail.

Last edited by Oblivion138; 05-06-2013 at 01:45 AM.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:50 PM   #322
Crom1 Crom1 is offline
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The Scream Factory blu-ray is unquestionably an improvement...Another quality blu-ray release from Cliff and co.
Completely agree. I'm very happy with the transfer, and own both.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:58 PM   #323
Cactus Cactus is offline
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There's an easy way to see if it's an upscale. Open the screengrab in an image editor, scale it down to 720x480 and then back again to 1920x1080. If that image is virtually identical to the unscaled image... well, you take a guess.

Phantasm II is an upscale. It looks horrible. Blown out whites, colours are off, detail is worse than the DVD. Shout/Scream... you're losing your fans one by one.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:50 PM   #324
balthazar_bee balthazar_bee is offline
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Originally Posted by Cactus View Post
Phantasm II is an upscale. It looks horrible. Blown out whites, colours are off, detail is worse than the DVD. Shout/Scream... you're losing your fans one by one.
Well...I don't know about that.

If this is indeed an upscale (and it looks that way), it's a disappointment. (To be honest, I didn't really notice while watching -- it was problematic in some respects, but an upscale?!)

But weighing that against the other work that Scream has done, it's a drop in the bucket.

Maybe I'm just saying that because, while I like the film, it's never been a desert island choice (good though it is, it's a shadow of the original).

They Live was a bigger disappointment for me -- I can't take the EE.

And I don't want to say that Scream has no responsibility here, but weren't these two transfers created by/overseen by Universal?
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:53 PM   #325
Clark Kent Clark Kent is offline
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I would call it a horribly dated HD transfer with a very poor effective resolution, over a pure upscale from an SD source.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:53 PM   #326
Oblivion138 Oblivion138 is offline
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It doesn't look like an old HD transfer, though...it looks like an upscale.

An old HD transfer would still show more detail than the DVD. This BD image does not. At least not in any side-by-side I've seen. If anyone has seen such a comparison, let me know. Until then, all the available evidence points to an upscale.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:09 PM   #327
Danny4 Danny4 is offline
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maybe you should buy it, instead of judging by some screencaps.

i have it on blu-ray and it looked pretty good to me.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:19 PM   #328
pedromc69 pedromc69 is offline
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I agree i dont understand all the hate i thought it looked great on blu ray. Alot of trolls on here.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:48 PM   #329
Sky_Captain Sky_Captain is offline
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The cropping is bad enough, never mind any other shenanigans.




Last edited by Sky_Captain; 05-09-2013 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:29 AM   #330
Cactus Cactus is offline
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Exactly, Sky_Captain. Even more clearly:

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Old 05-09-2013, 10:25 AM   #331
Oblivion138 Oblivion138 is offline
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But it looks great!! TROLLS!!!!!!!

That's right...having standards makes you trolls. What, no one told you?
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:03 AM   #332
bgart13 bgart13 is offline
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Exactly, Sky_Captain. Even more clearly:

Unless the left side is part of the soundtrack area and wasn't meant to be seen?
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:58 AM   #333
kinkyqueen kinkyqueen is offline
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Oh boy...
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:45 AM   #334
Kentai Kentai is offline
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Said I wouldn't comment again until I had the disc... well, I do now. Who's excited?

I found some of the sharpest line work on the disc I could and decided to try the Downscale-Upscale test. The results suggest it's got more resolution than a PAL master after all, but... well, the difference is pretty damned subtle, and seems to be non-existent on a large number of scenes:

[Show spoiler]
Full 1080p Original:


1080p > 576p > 1080p:



There's more to an HD master than resolution, but on this front PHANTASM 2 appears to be legit... if underwhelming. I can only assume a combination of ancient hardware and heavy digital processing have limited real-world resolution to the bare minimum. It's not nefarious, just crumby, and you have to go out of your way to find anything in focus enough that'll "prove" it's not an upscale. Caps-A-Holic's comparison is perfectly accurate, they just didn't go out of their way to pick scenes that look better than others. Doesn't make the comparisons wrong, just incomplete.

Either way, though, this transfer's ugly. Even ignoring the boosted contrast and framing oddities we've already discussed at length, the DVNR is over the top. Daylight scenes tend to have zero grain at all and a hazy smearing on everything but edges of moving objects. The print is so unstable with judder that you wind up with a sticky, waxy mess that only looks "alive" because everything's squirming back and fourth under the digital processing. It's the most unpleasant looking transfer I've seen in a while because of that alone, and while I'd have little trouble believing Universal did some or all of this damage when they made a master 10+ years ago, that doesn't make the results any less awful.

For an example of what grain should NOT look like, take a peek here. Big, waxy clumps on the guy running and virtually no grain anywhere else? Yeah, that's not a major temporal DVNR artifacts or anything...

[Show spoiler]



And what the hell is up with that 'digital static' at the top of the screen? Literally, what is that? I've never seen it before on any other title.

Was it unfair of me to assume it was an upscale based on a handful of screenshots? Eh, probably. But it's not trolling to say this disc looks pretty pants, even when compared only to the rest of Scream Factory's output. I won't begrudge anyone for being satisfied with a film that's probably always looked "meh" on video, nor will I complain about the exhaustive special features... but guys, you can do better with the transfer. I don't care if Coscarelli signed off on this or not; it's a below average effort from a company that typically does a lot better.

Looking forward to those VHS-Tastic special features, though. Can't complain about those, no sir.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:50 AM   #335
Trekkie313 Trekkie313 is offline
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Why the hell are people complaining, if they don't like the transfer then just import the expensive Anchor Bay Region 2 disc which may or may not be the one with the extras. Save the Blu-ray and slipcovers for us fans.
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Old 05-11-2013, 03:11 AM   #336
Kentai Kentai is offline
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...because Shout Factory have proven they can do a lot better, and shouldn't get a free pass when they release something that looks "meh", at best? And because being told "Import a DVD, geez!" should never have be a retort one has to use when a Blu-ray isn't all it could be?

I love the fact that Shout Factory are releasing these titles at all, and I think they usually do an adequate-to-fantastic job of it, materials depending. Odds are THE BURNING will be my favorite disc of the year. But that doesn't mean we can't be disappointed or frustrated.
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Old 05-11-2013, 03:34 AM   #337
bgart13 bgart13 is offline
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If anyone has seen Uni's dvd of PHANTASM II, they'd realize it's the same master and they handed it over to Shout, it's what they had and what they wanted released -- as is the case for situations like this. They probably refused to do a new transfer and said 'take it or leave it' -- unless Shout was able to justify an all new scan and clean up.
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:30 AM   #338
Oblivion138 Oblivion138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekkie313 View Post
Why the hell are people complaining, if they don't like the transfer then just import the expensive Anchor Bay Region 2 disc which may or may not be the one with the extras. Save the Blu-ray and slipcovers for us fans.
Wait...people aren't supposed to complain when BD's look like glorified DVD's? Are we just supposed to swallow any crap that gets shoveled onto a disc?

I'd assume that people are complaining because they were hoping for a BD transfer that looked HD.
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Old 05-11-2013, 05:15 AM   #339
bgart13 bgart13 is offline
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It doesn't look HD, it *is* HD.
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Old 05-11-2013, 05:51 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by bgart13 View Post
It doesn't look HD, it *is* HD.
LOL! This is actually really funny!
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