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Old 01-19-2013, 07:58 AM   #101
Taygan315 Taygan315 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsmith82 View Post
Remember where you are, Sparky. It's the internet, opinions around here are sometimes as useful as a second ***hole located on your elbow.. My best advice to you, buy the 3d movies that you know you would enjoy or that you want to see, or that you have seen in 2d and know you would watch again now that you have the option of buying a 3d copy.

It is pretty easy to tell when a movie is complete garbage as nobody will support it, case in point the re-release of Day of the Dead in 3d (better known as 2d about 1 foot back into your TV) - garbage, or most of the German conversions. But the majority of films that are truly in 3d and do offer depth, a margin of people will say that is their showcase 3d flick for showing anyone their 3d setup, some will say it is just okay, and some will say it's the worst film they've seen.

You are your best judge.

Welcome BTW, this is a cool forum to participate in, lot's of good members and conversations.
Well said, sound advice.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:05 AM   #102
Taygan315 Taygan315 is offline
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Originally Posted by keb33509 View Post
Does the general discussion section not exist anymore?

Anyway, I have over 100 3D blus and at least half of them have great 3D, the rest are good. 2D-3D sucks no matter what on every TV.
I'm with keb on this. My 2D-3D is okay but pales greatly next to a 3D blu. Just no comparison.

Many people believe an up converted DVD looks almost as good as a blu-ray. I agree. But....the same cannot be said about 2D-3D conversion vs 3D blu-rays. Not even close. This is all just my opinion.....to each his own.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:51 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Taygan315 View Post
I'm with keb on this. My 2D-3D is okay but pales greatly next to a 3D blu. Just no comparison.

Many people believe an up converted DVD looks almost as good as a blu-ray. I agree. But....the same cannot be said about 2D-3D conversion vs 3D blu-rays. Not even close. This is all just my opinion.....to each his own.
Agree 100%, 2D->3D is terrible! Well done 3D movies are awesome on a 3D TV like my LG 6500.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:50 PM   #104
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HI All,
I don't know what an "upconverted" disk is. In the general sense, up conversion refers to a frequency translation from one to another. But in the world of DVD's and BD's I don't know how this applies. Can you explain, please?

And BTW, most of you seem to think I am trying to say that a simulated presentation is as good as a real 3D. I never said that and I didn't mean that. I commented that the simulation was NOT as good. The question I was asking was whether you found the simulation useful for a 2D disk. Why do you insist on not reading thoroughly?

Sparky
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:08 PM   #105
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I did read thoroughly. My answer was no, it's not useful for a 2D disc because the 3D conversion is so bad as to be worse than leaving it 2D, at least in my opinion.

"Upconversion" here is usually meant as a standard definition source (say, your DVD collection) scaled to a higher resolution for display on an HDTV. Exact methods vary from simply scaling it up with no effects to applying special algorithms or filters to try and make it appear artificially "sharper" or "more hi-def". The problem with this, of course, being that you can't magically create image information that isn't there, so any upscaler-added pixels are really just the software's best guess as to what should be there.

Under certain circumstances (bad Blu-ray and good DVD, especially if they're sourced from the same master) an upscaled DVD can come close to the Blu-ray in video quality... and there are some very rare cases where a Blu-ray has been handled SO badly (usually taken from an SD source and filtered or compressed to death) that the upscaled DVD is actually better. This is, however, very, very rare and in my experience most Blu-rays are noticeably better than their upscaled DVD counterparts, usually very much so.

Taygan was drawing a comparison between that and 2D-3D auto conversion, since they're both software-based guesswork that attempts to enhance content not originally encoded in whichever format it's trying to simulate (HD or 3D). He stated his belief that upconversion is better than 2D-3D auto conversion, as while some upconverted SD content can look almost as good as Blu-ray, he believes 2D-3D conversion never even comes close to a real 3D Blu and thus is not something he finds useful. I have to agree with him.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:49 PM   #106
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is online now
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I finally got around to experimenting with this feature last weekend. Strangely, it didn't seem to work with DVDs, only Blu-Rays. I first tried it out on the Gondor battle in Return of the King on DVD, and didn't notice anything. Then I popped in Disney's sailing documentary, "Morning Light" on Blu, and blammo - the 3D conversion kicked in and it looked like the movie as composed for a view-master.

I know the tech isn't there yet, but I have to admit a certain entertainment factor in the novelty of seeing classic favorites suddenly presented in "slices" of depth. I know I probably shouldn't, but it was fun. I checked out Empire of the Sun, Fantasia, Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, the BBC Pride and Prejudice, and Bambi. A little trippy to see these in faux-3D, and nowhere close to a real 3D presentation, but as an entertaining novelty, it was a hoot.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:27 PM   #107
Karma16 Karma16 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
I finally got around to experimenting with this feature last weekend. Strangely, it didn't seem to work with DVDs, only Blu-Rays. I first tried it out on the Gondor battle in Return of the King on DVD, and didn't notice anything. Then I popped in Disney's sailing documentary, "Morning Light" on Blu, and blammo - the 3D conversion kicked in and it looked like the movie as composed for a view-master.

I know the tech isn't there yet, but I have to admit a certain entertainment factor in the novelty of seeing classic favorites suddenly presented in "slices" of depth. I know I probably shouldn't, but it was fun. I checked out Empire of the Sun, Fantasia, Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, the BBC Pride and Prejudice, and Bambi. A little trippy to see these in faux-3D, and nowhere close to a real 3D presentation, but as an entertaining novelty, it was a hoot.
HI Ernest,
On my Panasonic 55 the simulation works for all 2D sources including DVD, Blu-Ray, and off the air HD TV. What TV and Model do you have? Maybe there is something wrong. It really should work for all sources.

Also, in the simulation mode, my Panasonic has three settings for depth. I'm still experimenting with these. So far, the medium depth setting seems best but it probably varies with the program and source.

Someone wrote below that the simulation mode uses algorithms to make a "best guess" as to how the moment to moment depth should appear. This is true. However, there is no reason to assume that all algorithms are created equal and that they all use the same picture variables. These are all software variables subject to the skill of the programer and the complexity of the signal processing chips. Anyone who has programmed professionally, such as myself, knows the programmer and the hardware are major variables.

Also, we should understand what an algorithm is. It is a set of mathematical software rules that define the overall software processing of the problem. They are not fixed at all. They are completely dependent on the the engineering analysis applied to the issue. Again, these can be highly variable from one TV manufacturer to another. And being highly variable, the results can also be highly variable.

I see no reason to believe that all TV's are equally good performing simulation. Indeed, it seems far more likely that all TV's are different, some better than others. Unfortunately, I have read almost nothing about this technology either in manufacturers TV descriptions or in the test reviews. It seems the simulation feature is being ignored and probably untried. This is one of the reasons I started this thread.

So far the dialog has been very interesting.

Sparky

Last edited by Karma16; 01-25-2013 at 02:56 AM.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:39 PM   #108
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma16 View Post
HI Ernest,
On my Panasonic 55 the simulation works for all 2D sources including DVD, Blu-Ray, and off the air HD TV. What TV and Model do you have? Maybe there is something wrong. It really should work for all sources.
It's my brother-in-law's TV...I have a 3D blu-ray player, and several 3D movies. He has a 3DTV, but no content, and a 2D only blu player. I go house sit and take care of his pets from time to time, so I haul my player and my movies over to check out all these 3D movies I have. Having sort of exhausted these, I decided to check out the TV's 2D-3D conversion mode, and was giddy at some of the results, while recognizing they're nowhere near the quality of an actual 3D product.

Quote:
Also, in the simulation mode, my Panasonic has three settings for depth. I'm still experimenting with these. So far, the medium depth setting seems best but it probably varies with the program and source.
I didn't see that exactly - there were other 3D modes, but they seemed to be bizarre stretch and squash modes. Maybe I didn't know what I was looking at, I just played the films on regular 2D-3D mode. Plus, it isn't my TV, and I'd never monkey with the settings on someone else's TV. Never rub another man's rhubarb.

Quote:
Someone wrote below that the simulation mode uses algorithms to make a "best guess" as to how the moment to moment depth should appear. This is true. However, there is no reason to assume that all algorithms are created equal and that they all use the same picture variables. These are all software variables subject to the skill of the programer and the complexity of the signal processing chips. Anyone who has programmed professionally, such as myself, knows the programmer and the hardware are major variables.

Also, we should understand what an algorithm is. It a set of mathematical software rules that define the overall software processing of the problem. They are not fixed at all. They are completely dependent on the the engineering analysis applied to the issue. Again, these can be highly variable from one TV manufacturer to another. And being highly variable, the results can also be highly variable.

I see no reason to believe that all TV's are equally good performing simulation. Indeed, it seems far more likely that all TV's are different, some better than others. Unfortunately, I have read almost nothing about this technology either in manufacturers TV descriptions or in the test reviews. It seems the simulation feature is being ignored and probably untried. This is one of the reasons I started this thread.

So far the dialog has been very interesting.

Sparky
I hear you. I thought it was fun, and again, I recognize it isn't the same quality as an actual conversion. If anything, it simply whetted my appetite for Fantasia in 3D, because even in this form, it was a whole lot of fun.

For the record, my 3D Blu's are:

John Carter
The Adventures of Tintin
Tron Legacy
Titanic
Toy Story, Toy Story 2, Toy Story 3
The Lion King
Beauty and the Beast
Brave
Finding Nemo
Cars 2
The Avengers

I know the conversion is wonky and I understand I probably shouldn't have fun watching the Battle of Hoth from Empire Strikes Back or the Imaginary Air Battle from Empire of the Sun or the Death Star Battle from Star Wars in TV-converted 3D...but I did.

Last edited by Ernest Rister; 01-24-2013 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:38 PM   #109
Karma16 Karma16 is offline
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Default Forbidden Planet in Simulated 3D

HI All,
Do you know Forbidden Planet? You should. It's the classic masterpiece from the mid-1950's that many consider the best Sci Fi film ever. I don't think I will go quite that far but it is terrific if a little dated and quaint.

I'll not review it here because this forum is devoted to Blu-Ray and 3D. The film has been re-released on Blu-Ray but my copy is a DVD. If you want read reviews check it out on Amazon. Be warned, you will be overwhelmed by a bunch of Sci Fi freaks who are huge fans of the movie.

What I want to do is tell you how good the film looks with simulated 3D on my Panasonic TV. It's as though the film was made for this. It's very nearly as good as a real 3D disk.

Since it seems I'm the only one here writing about simulated 3D and because of all the negative responses I have received, I thought I would give you a case where simulated 3D works really well. This is good because Forbidden Planet is not out in 3D and may never be. But it deserves to be in every bodies film library especially if you like Sci Fi.

An interesting oddity is the musical sound track which is totally electronic, the very first one. Understand that synthesizers did not exist in 1955 when the film was made. So how did they do it? They could have used used a strange and odd electronic instrument invented in the 1930's called a Theremin. But they didn't because the world has produced only one person who mastered the instrument. Instead, they used frequency generators and many original sound modifiers. And what a job they did. It's a great and highly original sound track, again a classic.

Sparky

Last edited by Karma16; 01-25-2013 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:07 AM   #110
AmrlKJaneway AmrlKJaneway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma16 View Post
HI All,
Do you know Forbidden Planet? You should. It's the classic masterpiece from the mid-1950's that many consider the best Sci Fi film ever. I don't think I will go quite that far but it is terrific if a little dated and quaint.

I'll not review it here because this forum is devoted to Blu-Ray and 3D. The film has been re-released on Blu-Ray but my copy is a DVD. If you want read reviews check it out on Amazon. Be warned, you will be overwhelmed by a bunch of Sci Fi freaks who are huge fans of the movie.

What I want to do is tell you how good the film looks with simulated 3D on my Panasonic TV. It's as though the film was made for this. It's very nearly as good as a real 3D disk.

Since it seems I'm the only one here writing about simulated 3D and because of all the negative responses I have received, I thought I would give you a case where simulated 3D works really well. This is good because Forbidden Planet is not out in 3D and may never be. But it deserves to be in every bodies film library especially if you like Sci Fi.

An interesting oddity is the musical sound track which is totally electronic, the very first one. Understand that synthesizers did not exist in 1955 when the film was made. So how did they do it? They could have used used a strange and odd electronic instrument invented in the 1930's called a Theremin. But they didn't because the world has produced only one person who mastered the instrument. Instead, they used frequency generators and many original sound modifiers. And what a job they did. It's a great and highly original sound track, again a classic.

Sparky
It's probably the amazing colours, and lack of fast paced action that does it. I enjoyed The Simpsons Movie simulated on my Sammy (now broken), but only when there was little movement.

Maybe this means Wizard of Oz would look alright too, though if you're a fan I believe the 3D disk is still coming out, and it's probably best to wait. But it could also mean that The Little Mermaid would look okay, and those that don't want to double dip on Avatar may also have a good experience (though the 3D is SO strong in this one, I really recommend buying it).

Now I wanna watch Flash Gordon simulated on my computer. Lol. There's so much red and green in that one I should give it a go on my big screen with anaglyph glasses!
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:12 AM   #111
Taygan315 Taygan315 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma16 View Post
HI All,
Do you know Forbidden Planet? You should. It's the classic masterpiece from the mid-1950's that many consider the best Sci Fi film ever. I don't think I will go quite that far but it is terrific if a little dated and quaint.

I'll not review it here because this forum is devoted to Blu-Ray and 3D. The film has been re-released on Blu-Ray but my copy is a DVD. If you want read reviews check it out on Amazon. Be warned, you will be overwhelmed by a bunch of Sci Fi freaks who are huge fans of the movie.

What I want to do is tell you how good the film looks with simulated 3D on my Panasonic TV. It's as though the film was made for this. It's very nearly as good as a real 3D disk.

Since it seems I'm the only one here writing about simulated 3D and because of all the negative responses I have received, I thought I would give you a case where simulated 3D works really well. This is good because Forbidden Planet is not out in 3D and may never be. But it deserves to be in every bodies film library especially if you like Sci Fi.

An interesting oddity is the musical sound track which is totally electronic, the very first one. Understand that synthesizers did not exist in 1955 when the film was made. So how did they do it? They could have used used a strange and odd electronic instrument invented in the 1930's called a Theremin. But they didn't because the world has produced only one person who mastered the instrument. Instead, they used frequency generators and many original sound modifiers. And what a job they did. It's a great and highly original sound track, again a classic.

Sparky
Thanks for sharing this. I may have to try the same thing with my copy of Forbidden Planet.
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:16 AM   #112
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general thread?
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:18 AM   #113
AmrlKJaneway AmrlKJaneway is offline
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Originally Posted by BigNickUK View Post
general thread?
It's 3D related. There's too many haters everywhere else. If you have something interesting to say about 3D, and want to discuss is with people who are interested in what you're saying, I think this is the place to be.

That's my opinion anyway. I haven't seen a moderator all morning...
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:48 AM   #114
Nighteyes Nighteyes is offline
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I dunno, I just popped in the disc and tried it. While a few scenes do gain additional depth, all in all I still found it pretty much 2D. But then again maybe some displays do better jobs converting to 3D than others.
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:13 AM   #115
rburst rburst is offline
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Default Need help with a comeback for a person who says they "know blu-ray 3D"

Friend of mine said she was watching Iron Man 2 in 3D on a 3D blu-ray player (not sure which). I told her that it's impossible since Iron Man 2 is not 3D. She says that her blu-ray 3D player converts any blu-ray to 3D.

Someone please tell me she's been lied to.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:56 AM   #116
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ok
Panasonic TC-P65VT50 Smart VIERA 3D HD Plasma,
Blu-ray Player:Panasonic DMP-BDT500,
Receiver:Pioneer Elite CS-57,
Front Speakers:Paradigm Studio 20,Rear:Paradigm Millenia ADP,Center:Paradigm CC 300,Sub:Paradigm Series 7 Sub 10,
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Old 05-17-2013, 11:43 AM   #117
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Yes. It also converts VHS to 3D as well
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Old 05-17-2013, 11:54 AM   #118
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Yes. It also converts VHS to 3D as well
You can upconvert any crap to 3D with a display that has 2D-to-3D conversion. Of course it will also look like crap, maybe more so than before.
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:40 PM   #119
AmrlKJaneway AmrlKJaneway is offline
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You can upconvert any crap to 3D with a display that has 2D-to-3D conversion. Of course it will also look like crap, maybe more so than before.
C'mon now, it looks okay if you pause it...

Converted films are bad enough when they take months to do. How anyone thinks they'll get a decent 3D conversion on the fly is anyone's guess...
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:09 AM   #120
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I think eventually, many years from now, 2D to 3D conversion will be good. But yes, for now it's mostly crap.
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