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Old 02-12-2016, 02:18 AM   #1681
Blu-21 Blu-21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfred E. Neumann View Post
The Blu-ray is truer to the original and the prints than the DVD.

Blu


35mm








I really like the BD transfer, but damn I love the deeper colour of the 35mm shots.
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Old 02-12-2016, 07:25 AM   #1682
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The color in the 35mm shots look way too over-saturated. It loks like everybody has severe sunburn or high blood pressure, and water doesn't look like it does in that shot. I like a more natural appearance.
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Old 02-12-2016, 08:15 AM   #1683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mar3o View Post
The color in the 35mm shots look way too over-saturated. It loks like everybody has severe sunburn or high blood pressure, and water doesn't look like it does in that shot. I like a more natural appearance.
I have high blood pressure and I can assure you that it doesn't change your skin tone

The 35mm don't look quite right to me either, the contrast seems way too high.
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:40 PM   #1684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow View Post
I have high blood pressure and I can assure you that it doesn't change your skin tone

The 35mm don't look quite right to me either, the contrast seems way too high.
But isn't high contrast a typical feature of 35mm release prints, hence why they really only should be used for home video releases as a last resort?
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Old 02-12-2016, 03:12 PM   #1685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Thomsen View Post
But isn't high contrast a typical feature of 35mm release prints, hence why they really only should be used for home video releases as a last resort?
Yup.
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Old 02-12-2016, 04:14 PM   #1686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Thomsen View Post
But isn't high contrast a typical feature of 35mm release prints, hence why they really only should be used for home video releases as a last resort?
Yeah, the gamma of print film can be as high as 2.8, or more etc, giving you images whose native viewing gamma is very high (contrasty) (example negative gamma of ~0.5 x print gamma 2.8 = 1.4 final). This is done to account for (projector) lens flare, and totally dark theater viewing conditions which would make viewing images with a final unity (1.0) viewing gamma (1:1 meaning exactly as shot) to look pasty and low contrast against the dark theater.

positivefilmgammas.jpg

TV gamma does the same thing, with video camera gammas being ~0.5
x 2.2 = 1.1, or x 2.4 = 1.2, less contrasty than cinema prints, but still higher than unity, because rooms are considered a little dim.



So straight scan from projection prints can end too contrasty.
Simple controls like reducing gamma or raising black level can help them look more normal and doing a similar but opposite move on low contrast intermediates or negatives can make them look more like prints. Like these:

nv2hs7xxroughequivalency.jpg
15pg6tjxxroughequivalncy.jpg

What I see here is probably the difference of the characteristic transfer curves from each source, the BD source which should not be a projection print but a lower contrast intermediate or negative has extended shadow and highlights tones that would need to be compressed while midtones expanded, just like prints do, to have the same look. Also colors reproduction of hues in a print can drift in a different way than on the previous elements (I see kind greenish shadows and the bluer red in that scan, while the BD source (as transferred or captured in A E.N 's post) had a brighter more orange red, and pinker skin tones etc.. So to bring those to range, just like the shadow/midtone/highlights curves, the colors might need individual tweaking in the color suite. (similar to what you do in Photoshop with curves and individual hue chroma and value for each of the 6 colors) or even custom LUTs
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Old 02-13-2016, 01:22 AM   #1687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstar View Post
Music Box Theatre in Chicago is showing it in 70mm too a week from tomorrow (as part of a 70mm film fest)

http://www.musicboxtheatre.com/festivals/70mm/films

Anyone know if this will come to Denver in 70mm?
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Old 02-13-2016, 04:17 AM   #1688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f451 View Post
Anyone know if this will come to Denver in 70mm?
this is a great site for 70mm screenings, nationally and internationally

http://in70mm.com/now_showing/index.htm
"Ago long long...long...far..away star." - Opips3
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:06 AM   #1689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Thomsen View Post
But isn't high contrast a typical feature of 35mm release prints, hence why they really only should be used for home video releases as a last resort?
The only problem I have (or had) with release prints is that they are (or were) four generations from the original camera negative. Digital projection is sourced from the OCN and no matter what the issue with color or contrast, the clarity is still better.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:12 AM   #1690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstar View Post
this is a great site for 70mm screenings, nationally and internationally

http://in70mm.com/now_showing/index.htm
Yes, that's a great site but they don't list the Columbus screening so I still wonder if there might be a Denver screening.

http://in70mm.com/library/film/2OO1/index.htm
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Old 02-13-2016, 12:10 PM   #1691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rory View Post
The only problem I have (or had) with release prints is that they are (or were) four generations from the original camera negative. Digital projection is sourced from the OCN and no matter what the issue with color or contrast, the clarity is still better.
I think you're right: original camera negative --> interpositive --> internegative --> release print. But some release prints may be struck from the original negative, for roadshow and large-venue premiere prints.

A potential source of error is that, if the inter positive is color timed, then something sourced from the negative has to be retimed. Interesting, too, is that for each step in the process of making a release print, reversal film is used.
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Old 02-13-2016, 12:33 PM   #1692
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And some films bypassed the neg -> IP -> IN stage completely using CRI stocks, creating a dupe neg from the negative without the IP step in-between.
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Old 02-14-2016, 06:55 AM   #1693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joie View Post
Interesting, too, is that for each step in the process of making a release print, reversal film is used.
That's the normal photographic process: Each film exposure inverts the tones/colors, forming a negative image of the previous step. These are negative γ=0.5, intermediate γ=1.0 (interpositive->internegative are the same film) and print γ=>2.4 films.

I know you meant this inversion with the term "reversal film" but the term reversal film is used in conjunction with slide, transparency and CRI films (direct positive films) (example: Ektachrome. Fujichrome) because the developing process "reverses" the colors (makes them go the opposite again) by adding an extra "reversal" step in the development. So where light exposed the silver that would normally have created a black image (a silhouette) now would develop as clear, creating a positive (reversed) image. Like Geoff D says, a CRI (Color Reversal Intermediate), doing the extra reversal in one piece of film, eliminates one of the internegative film steps. The CRI image, being a direct positive copy of the negative, where light is light and dark is dark, would look like the negative:



I remember reading many years ago that a reason for 2001 being shot in 65mm was to retain the first generation print look in release prints so you believed you were there.

Last edited by Deciazulado; 02-14-2016 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 02-26-2016, 06:28 PM   #1694
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For those that dont know, Cinemark theaters will be showing 2001 in April as part of the Classic series.

http://www.cinemark.com/cinemark-classic-series

Now I'll just have to call around on the day of to figure out whos showing it on the largest screen. The theater closest to me likes to put all the classic series movies in the smallest theater :/
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Old 02-26-2016, 06:30 PM   #1695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spire View Post
For those that dont know, Cinemark theaters will be showing 2001 in April as part of the Classic series.

http://www.cinemark.com/cinemark-classic-series

Now I'll just have to call around on the day of to figure out whos showing it on the largest screen. The theater closest to me likes to put all the classic series movies in the smallest theater :/
Nice, but won't this be the same dated 2K DI that was used for the HD DVD and BD?
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Old 02-26-2016, 06:35 PM   #1696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spire View Post
For those that dont know, Cinemark theaters will be showing 2001 in April as part of the Classic series.

http://www.cinemark.com/cinemark-classic-series

Now I'll just have to call around on the day of to figure out whos showing it on the largest screen. The theater closest to me likes to put all the classic series movies in the smallest theater :/
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Old 02-26-2016, 09:15 PM   #1697
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I would go but the Cinemark theaters here are in dangerous parts of town.
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Old 02-26-2016, 09:23 PM   #1698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Goofnut View Post
Nice, but won't this be the same dated 2K DI that was used for the HD DVD and BD?
If the DCP is the same as the bluray it is likely better than the 35mm print I saw a couple of years ago (and way better than a beat up old 70mm print I saw 3-4 years ago which has been replaced now by a better print thank goodness) even though its still 2K.
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Old 02-26-2016, 09:31 PM   #1699
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Why must people post unfinished shots without a clue?
4k yes HDR no.
Physical media Fo lyfe.
The Scott Bros. do no wrong.
Dolby Vision is a company grasping at relevance.
Bring back and refine SXRD displays.
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Old 02-26-2016, 09:35 PM   #1700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike View Post
Why must people post unfinished shots without a clue?
Why must people post vague complaints without a point of reference?










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