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Old 01-04-2013, 02:07 AM   #1
Bourne1886 Bourne1886 is offline
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United Kingdom DVD Upscaling-How does it work?

Lately I've been wondering about DVD Upscaling.

I'm not technically minded when it comes to these type of things. So please bear with me. On various forums I have been reading comments from some people who say there is little or no difference in PQ between an upscaled DVD and a BD.

I have watched many DVDs on my BD player and in my opinion there's no way an upscaled DVD matches the quality of a BD. So I disagree big time with what these people are saying, or am I missing something.

Basically My question is "Do BD players automatically upscale DVDs without you having to alter the BD players settings or do you have to turn an upscaling mode on?"

If anybody knows the answer I'd love to know as its been bothering me for some time and I thought the best place to get an answer would be on my favourite BD website.

Thanks.

P.S if there is already an existing post regarding this I apologise in advance.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:12 AM   #2
JohnAV JohnAV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne1886 View Post
Basically My question is "Do BD players automatically upscale DVDs without you having to alter the BD players settings or do you have to turn an upscaling mode on?"
Usually the blu ray player is preset to upscale a 480i recording (SD-DVD) to 1080P output by default settings. This in no way means that a DVD is comparable to a BD as you said, but with a lot of fancy interpolation techniques (varies by type of video processor used) you can noticeably improve the DVD's PQ when upscaled.


see DVD Video Upscaling - Important Facts
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:29 AM   #3
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As DVD's have a resolution of 720 x 576 (in the UK) every time you play a DVD on a 1280 x 720 or 1920 x 1080 HD Ready or HDTV the image will be upscaled as those TV's only output their native resolution (720p or 1080p), so either the player or the TV will upscale the image (if you plug a DVD player into a HDTV then the TV is doing the scaling).

So technically upscaling is always on it just what is doing the upscaling can give you slightly different results, although I think the PS3 gives you the option to view DVD's at their correct size - which gives the picture a windowed effect if you set the PS3 to display above DVD's resolution (then the TV will be doing the upscaling).

As for the quality difference a good DVD should look great upscaled but if the same title has an equal quality Blu-ray then the BD will always be better. Just pop a PIXAR movie that you have a DVD and BD copy of into your player and compare. The DVD will look great but the BD will just look fantastic. But if you watch something like The Office then the differences won't always be as apparent but there is a difference.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:45 PM   #4
Bourne1886 Bourne1886 is offline
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That's for posting.

Even though DVD is no match for BD I still want to squeeze as much out of my DVDs as possible,as not all my favourite films are out on BD yet. I still find it incredible when some people state that they can see very little difference between an upscaled DVD and a BD. When I watch a DVD it looks soft,blurry and lacks detail. I personally think that Upscaling doesn't work that well as I've never seen a DVD get anywhere near the PQ of a BD.

Cheers for your help.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:17 AM   #5
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From what I've experienced , if you have a good setup and you are playing a good quality dvd the upscaling will make it amazing, so good in some cases that most people wont be able to tell its not a blu ray. On the other hand much older lower quality films on dvd will upscale very poorly.

For example I watched above the rim and even with the upscaling it showed all the low quality imperfections that wouldn't be seen on an older dvd player, whereas a dvd like predator looks absolutely fantastic when upscaled and very clean a crisp.
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:27 PM   #6
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see DVD Video Upscaling - Important Facts


Interesting read, thanks for posting.
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:41 PM   #7
Ixtys Ixtys is offline
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If I have a UHD TV with upscalling function. Do I still need blu-ray player with upscalling function in order to get a better quality?
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Old 07-04-2014, 08:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixtys View Post
If I have a UHD TV with upscalling function. Do I still need blu-ray player with upscalling function in order to get a better quality?
No, nearly all TVs will upscale video to their native resolution. So either the player or TV is responsible for up-scaling. I think only my PS3 gives me the option for turning off the up-scaling directly, you have to change the output resolution to DVD level with my other players. I'd imagine the next-gen players will be similar unless they want to introduce new options to the consumer.

Your current player will use the TVs up-scaling technology as it will have a lower output video resolution than the UHD TV's display.
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Last edited by chip75; 07-04-2014 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:58 PM   #9
Iain- Iain- is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne1886 View Post
Lately I've been wondering about DVD Upscaling.

I'm not technically minded when it comes to these type of things. So please bear with me. On various forums I have been reading comments from some people who say there is little or no difference in PQ between an upscaled DVD and a BD.

I have watched many DVDs on my BD player and in my opinion there's no way an upscaled DVD matches the quality of a BD. So I disagree big time with what these people are saying, or am I missing something.

Basically My question is "Do BD players automatically upscale DVDs without you having to alter the BD players settings or do you have to turn an upscaling mode on?"

If anybody knows the answer I'd love to know as its been bothering me for some time and I thought the best place to get an answer would be on my favourite BD website.

Thanks.

P.S if there is already an existing post regarding this I apologise in advance.
It's all down to:
  • Quality of DVD Mastering
  • Quality of de-interlacing and scaling kit
  • Quality and size of display device

As an example, in my system a dedicated, quality DVD player streams native 576i to Denon AVR-3313 which then de-interlaces and scales signal to 1080/50P. It then transmits that to smaller secondary system monitor. Image wouldn't look as good if displayed on the significantly larger primary system monitor.

What I get as a result, is fantastic PQ for the state of DVD technology involved. What most determines the final image you see on display though, is DVD mastering quality.

Last edited by Iain-; 07-05-2014 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 07-05-2014, 09:54 PM   #10
Bluyoda Bluyoda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne1886 View Post
That's for posting.

Even though DVD is no match for BD I still want to squeeze as much out of my DVDs as possible,as not all my favourite films are out on BD yet. I still find it incredible when some people state that they can see very little difference between an upscaled DVD and a BD. When I watch a DVD it looks soft,blurry and lacks detail. I personally think that Upscaling doesn't work that well as I've never seen a DVD get anywhere near the PQ of a BD.

Cheers for your help.
I have an Oppo BDP-83SE connected to a Pioneer LX5080, and I have the same experience as you. I must say that I am generally very sensitive to PQ, even in the cinema I constantly notice anomalies.
I guess many people really don't see that big a difference, whereas to me it's night and day.
I occasionally put in the DVD by mistake, because Paramount for example likes to put the DVD on the right side of the combo edition, and I literally go ewwww, and throw out the DVD in disgust, as it looks awful to me.
99,999999% of the time I watch BDs, and only Crossroads, or Diana Krall
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Old 07-05-2014, 10:12 PM   #11
Dylan34 Dylan34 is offline
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I find it funny that there is upscaling questions on here in 2014. I wondered myself about 4k upscaling and how good it could really be. Dvd upscaling is a joke really and always has been. In no way ,shape, or form does an upscaled dvd remotely compare to BD. that is just fact. The people that always said they could tell no difference i always wondered what the heck they were watching. Even the best scaler on the planet is not bringing DVD up to HD.

Last edited by Dylan34; 07-05-2014 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluyoda View Post
I have an Oppo BDP-83SE connected to a Pioneer LX5080, and I have the same experience as you. I must say that I am generally very sensitive to PQ, even in the cinema I constantly notice anomalies.
I guess many people really don't see that big a difference, whereas to me it's night and day.
I occasionally put in the DVD by mistake, because Paramount for example likes to put the DVD on the right side of the combo edition, and I literally go ewwww, and throw out the DVD in disgust, as it looks awful to me.
99,999999% of the time I watch BDs, and only Crossroads, or Diana Krall
-Live in Montreal, I have to watch on DVD, since they haven't been released on BD yet. .

Once you go Blu, you never go back. At least I can't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan34 View Post
I find it funny that there is upscaling questions on here in 2014. I wondered myself about 4k upscaling and how good it could really be. Dvd upscaling is a joke really and always has been. In no way ,shape, or form does an upscaled dvd remotely compare to BD. that is just fact. The people that always said they could tell no difference i always wondered what the heck they were watching. Even the best scaler on the planet is not bringing DVD up to HD.
To be fair, with DVD and with BD as well, What you see on your display device is all down to the quality of mastering of each individual DVD or BD title. I've seen some BD titles are so dodgy, they look like badly mastered DVD.

WRT DVD in my collection, the best mastered titles are:
  • "2001: A Space Odyssey"
  • "The Fifth Element"
  • "The Bourne Identity"

... and one of the worst is"
  • "The Bourne Ultimatum"

Just don't try to display DVD on large display devices and you'll be fine.

BTW, you seem rather naive in your outlook. Some very good titles will never be released on BD.

Last edited by Iain-; 07-06-2014 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:28 PM   #13
Dylan34 Dylan34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain- View Post
To be fair, with DVD and with BD as well, What you see on your display device is all down to the quality of mastering of each individual DVD or BD title. I've seen some BD titles are so dodgy, they look like badly mastered DVD.

WRT DVD in my collection, the best mastered titles are:
  • "2001: A Space Odyssey"
  • "The Fifth Element"
  • "The Bourne Identity"

... and one of the worst is"
  • "The Bourne Ultimatum"

Just don't try to display DVD on large display devices and you'll be fine.

BTW, you seem rather naive in your outlook. Some very good titles will never be released on BD.

Im not naive in the slightest man. Im stating facts, plain and simple. Secondly, i never said i didnt watch DVD' s. Too many people on these threads live to insult others for their opinions. Try reading something first before you jump on someone that had absolutely nothing to do with what was said bro
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:07 PM   #14
Iain- Iain- is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan34 View Post
... Try reading something first before you jump on someone that had absolutely nothing to do with what was said bro
As should you.

Obviously, your reading comprehension skills need improvement. No intention to "jump" on anyone, here.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:15 PM   #15
Dylan34 Dylan34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain- View Post
As should you.

Obviously, your reading comprehension skills need improvement. No intention to "jump" on anyone, here.
Ok, i dont want to argue at all so subject change. What would you say the best upscaler is, in a blu-ray player of course? I have a sony and the image is rather soft i think.
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:32 PM   #16
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Prior to updating my main system to a 65" ZT60, I had a 50" Kuro in that spot. The main seating distance was about 11.5 ft. Using an OPPO 983 with the ABT chipset I got a fantastic upscaled picture "if" the DVD was a well shot movie with a great transfer. On recent movies that met those two criteria the uninformed usually thought they were looking at HD. I have some Blu rays that actually look worse than some of my best upscaled DVDS. Of course seating distance and screen size played a big part in this setup. Once I installed the 65" set, I immediately realized that DVD wasn't going to cut the mustard for me anymore, and I updated my player to the OPPO 103 and started replacing my favorites with Blu Ray. One of the things I noticed once I moved to Blu was how sharp the backgrounds and distance shots were (assuming they were shot that way) ........ details like cars on the street below on aerial shots ........ leaves on trees in the background. I also discovered that just because it's Blu ray doesn't necessarily mean it's going to look good. Just like SD DVD, a bad transfer is a bad transfer. I have some great concert DVDs that will most likely never come out on Blu ray, as well as many older films. I moved the 983 to my bedroom system and can enjoy some of those films still on the Kuro in all their upscaled glory
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:06 AM   #17
UseY0ur1llusi0n UseY0ur1llusi0n is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluyoda View Post
I literally go ewwww, and throw out the DVD in disgust, as it looks awful to me.
Hehe me too.
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:02 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixtys View Post
If I have a UHD TV with upscalling function. Do I still need blu-ray player with upscalling function in order to get a better quality?
Yes you do need a BD player for better quality. All BD players upscale DVDs. some offer the ability to output native resolution of a DVD for those with external image processors that might have better technology in them than the source player. A HD TV does in fact scale an image, but it's not the same as "upconverting." A HD TV takes the image sent to it (if not upscaled by the player) and "stretches" it to it's own native display of 720P or 1080P, etc, to various success depending on the source. So basically you could compare this to plugging in some old home video tape recording to the tv. It will play the image at 1080P, but it will be blown out as the original source does not natively or artificially have the physical data to be shown attractively (just try hooking up a N64 for a good example).

Having a upscaling player, like a BD player, uses code to "fill in" the blanks of detail of the original picture in an attempt to match the display resolution. You will find various quality upscaling technology in players.

To answer your question: yes if you want the best quality, you want a BD player or DVD upscaling player.

Hope this helps.
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