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Old Today, 12:51 PM   #881
Richard--W Richard--W is online now
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Originally Posted by Infernal King View Post
I disagree. The entire first hour is not in the book at all and neither is the Mr. White plot (although Le Chiffre is executed by his Soviet superiors in the book). Bond is also not a newbie in Fleming's version.
We found something to agree on.

True, Bond is not a newbie in the novel Casino Royale. He's obviously been an agent for awhile, but falling in love was new to him. In the last chapter as we read his thought process he comes to certain realizations, in part about women spies and the cost of spying that brings us back to the first page's reference to "soul erosion." One gets the impression there is a maturation in Bond and a steeling of his resolve, together with bitterness and grief. His last words reveal just how much Vesper's behavior and death have impacted him.

The film should have opened liked the book, with the card game, and ended with the words "The bi tch is dead now." Hold on his expression for a moment and fade to black.
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Old Today, 12:55 PM   #882
Talzin78 Talzin78 is offline
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Originally Posted by Richard--W View Post
My information is factual and my views are shared by people who know better. .
Wait...who are These People?
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Old Today, 01:01 PM   #883
Kryptonic Kryptonic is offline
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My information is factual and my views are shared by people who know better. I feel sorry for you that are unable to comprehend what you watch.

By all means enjoy the current "Bond" films and look forward to the 24th, but for you to deny the obvious is just childish.
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Old Today, 02:59 PM   #884
Infernal King Infernal King is offline
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Originally Posted by Richard--W View Post
We found something to agree on.

True, Bond is not a newbie in the novel Casino Royale. He's obviously been an agent for awhile, but falling in love was new to him. In the last chapter as we read his thought process he comes to certain realizations, in part about women spies and the cost of spying that brings us back to the first page's reference to "soul erosion." One gets the impression there is a maturation in Bond and a steeling of his resolve, together with bitterness and grief. His last words reveal just how much Vesper's behavior and death have impacted him.

The film should have opened liked the book, with the card game, and ended with the words "The bi tch is dead now." Hold on his expression for a moment and fade to black.
I really wish you wouldn't talk down to those who you disagree with (you have not done so in this quote, I'm just using it as a springboard) because you obviously express yourself well and put a lot of thought into your posts. I enjoy reading all sorts of opinions on James Bond as long as the people sharing them aren't trolling or haven't otherwise given me a reason to disregard what they say. Please be more respectful of others in this thread so your opinions won't be disregarded out of frustration.
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Old Today, 03:31 PM   #885
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I really wish you wouldn't talk down to those who you disagree with (you have not done so in this quote, I'm just using it as a springboard) because you obviously express yourself well and put a lot of thought into your posts. I enjoy reading all sorts of opinions on James Bond as long as the people sharing them aren't trolling or haven't otherwise given me a reason to disregard what they say. Please be more respectful of others in this thread so your opinions won't be disregarded out of frustration.
I keep hearing John Simon's voice when reading his posts.

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Old Today, 04:02 PM   #886
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You never get told how long Bond was an agent before he got his 00. M says " I knew it was too early to promote you" implying to me at least he had been an agent for a while.
I always thought I read somewhere the synopsis for Casino Royal (movie only) said it was supposed to be Bonds first mission. Either way first or 50th don't matter to me I enjoyed the movie thoroughly.
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Old Today, 05:25 PM   #887
Richard--W Richard--W is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard--W View Post
We found something to agree on.

True, Bond is not a newbie in the novel Casino Royale. He's obviously been an agent for awhile, but falling in love was new to him. In the last chapter as we read his thought process he comes to certain realizations, in part about women spies and the cost of spying that brings us back to the first page's reference to "soul erosion." One gets the impression there is a maturation in Bond and a steeling of his resolve, together with bitterness and grief. His last words reveal just how much Vesper's behavior and death have impacted him.

The film should have opened liked the book, with the card game, and ended with the words "The bi tch is dead now." Hold on his expression for a moment and fade to black.
Quoting my own post to add further thoughts.

In the novel, Bond's last words at the end of the last page cause the reader to go back and realize just how stoic he's been. In addition to being a spy novel, it is also a tragic romance in which Bond and Vesper act on deep feelings they do not express in words, until the very end. Bond's stoicism escalates in equal measure to his growing passion for Vesper. The revelation of her betrayal and death is a shock and wake-up call to reality for him. He's hurting, but that quiet stoicism kicks in, and all he can say is "The bi tch is dead now."

We are told a few times in the book that their love-making is "savage" to use Fleming's exact word. Savage. As in not gentle. They are not lightweights, these two. We are also told that the savage lovemaking assuage's Bond existential pain; which means his impatience with the mundane and tediousness of daily life. He needs danger, conflict, a challenge and a situation in which he has to use his wits as much as his spycraft and killing skills. The relationship with Vesper heightens his sensations, which is why her death and betrayal hit him so hard.

The films blows all this completely. I've never seen a more thoroughly screwed up interpretation. The screenwriters didn't understand the book or didn't care. Instead of stoic performances and escalating passion with rough sex we get a chaste talkfest. Vesper ridicules Bond and tells him off, he whines and pouts like a pre-adolescent, she teaches him how to dress and be responsible, and suddenly they're in love. Along the way they talk, talk, talk, taking the emotional life out of the subtext and putting it in the clear text. Instead of methodically building up to "The bi tich is dead now" and then stopping -- such an ending would have been as powerful as that in OHMSS -- the words are followed by yet another lecture from M (on the telephone!) and an endcap to the irrelevant subplot about Mr. White.

The novel was an espionage noir, dark, moody and intense from page one. The opening has been highly praised as classic prose and is acutely cinematic. It's an atmospheric mood-builder that also establishes Bond's character, an intelligent, thinking, calculating killer in need of danger and sex to assuage his existential pain, but he's blessed with personal charm and all the social graces:

Quote:
1. The Secret Agent

The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the
morning. Then the soul erosion produced by high gambling -- a compost of
greed and fear and nervous tension -- becomes unbearable, and the senses
awake and revolt from it.

James Bond suddenly knew that he was tired. He always knew when his
body or his mind had had enough, and he always acted on the knowledge.
This helped him to avoid staleness and the sensual bluntness that breeds
mistakes.

The opening page is the keynote on which the rest of the story is built. There are simple methods by which this opening can be dramatized and visualized -- the same way Terence Young introduces Bond at the beginning of Dr. No. Instead the film opens with an off-the-wall outdoor chase and fight up a building construction site and down again, across town and into another building and outside again -- the point of which is to justify M's "one bomb maker" lecture to teach James Bond how stupid he is.

The film EON made may be an entertaining action movie, but it's James Bond in name only. The originating films, Dr. No and From Russia With Love, actually improved on the novels in significant ways while staying faithful to them. Casino Royale dismantles the novel and subverts its underlying meaning into the expression of Barbara Broccoli's agenda. This is self-evident and not a matter of opinion.

Last edited by Richard--W; Today at 05:30 PM.
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