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Old 09-08-2015, 05:48 PM   #5361
Yojimbo68 Yojimbo68 is offline
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Right...

I think that's what 99.9% of the people on Earth would like too...not just Americans

Anyways...no politics. Just curious.
Not to derail but then why don't they? Because the achievement of it is not simple. You have to fight for it and fight to keep it. The American way stands for something. It's more than a symbol. It's a way of life that was fought for by many who dreamed of living in a democracy. Getting PC about it is missing the point. IMHO..
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Old 09-08-2015, 06:32 PM   #5362
matirocker matirocker is offline
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It's a way of life that was fought for by many who dreamed of living in a democracy.
Sorry to disappoint, but half the world's countries live by that principle. Never got the ''american way'' thing either. And I don't know why super-heroes have to be attached to that.

Super heroes stopped being political propaganda after WWII and the Cold War (I guess) and they've become something for everyone. To stand out about what's right, not what's good for one country... I mean, would Jor-El have teached Kal to fight for the ''american way''?

Now that I think about it, that was one of the bits that bothered me about MOS. Even though I really like the movie, the military people kept getting worried about the safety of the United States. Sure, I guess it's their job to do so, but when you're doing a movie for the rest of the world to see, it gets annoying and very repetitive, since it's in A LOT of movies these days that could use perfectly without it.

Not trying to get US users against me, don't misunderstand me.
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Old 09-08-2015, 08:19 PM   #5363
Yojimbo68 Yojimbo68 is offline
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Originally Posted by matirocker View Post
Sorry to disappoint, but half the world's countries live by that principle. Never got the ''american way'' thing either. And I don't know why super-heroes have to be attached to that.

Super heroes stopped being political propaganda after WWII and the Cold War (I guess) and they've become something for everyone. To stand out about what's right, not what's good for one country... I mean, would Jor-El have teached Kal to fight for the ''american way''?

Now that I think about it, that was one of the bits that bothered me about MOS. Even though I really like the movie, the military people kept getting worried about the safety of the United States. Sure, I guess it's their job to do so, but when you're doing a movie for the rest of the world to see, it gets annoying and very repetitive, since it's in A LOT of movies these days that could use perfectly without it.

Not trying to get US users against me, don't misunderstand me.
So truth, justice and the global way? Just doesn't have the same ring.
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Old 09-08-2015, 08:28 PM   #5364
Lt. Brannigan Lt. Brannigan is offline
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Well to be fair, Smallville was marketed to the teen audience. I never watched it. Nor do I have the patience now, to sit there and watch, 10 seasons of a teen show.
The point is, it's there if you want watch it. I am tired of having the same ground covered again and again.... and again. We have seen Superman's youth on display in 2 movies, 2 TV series and countless comic books. I think it would be a novel idea to just start when he's been Superman for a while.

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It was never half as good as the main show it emulated, Buffy, and years later I'm sure it's even worse.
I enjoyed it, mostly. It took some really stupid turns and needlessly killed off the best character in the show halfway through its run. Also because of stupid rights issues we never got to see Tom Welling truly become Superman. Also the finale was anger inducing.
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Old 09-08-2015, 08:53 PM   #5365
AaronJ AaronJ is offline
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Originally Posted by Yojimbo68 View Post
I personally think that Superman should have an idealized comic book morality. Batman, that's a different story. But Superman...can't we have just one Comic Book hero who stays idealized? When I go to a Superman movie, I don't want to be reminded of how grey the world is. I want a guy who fights for truth, justice and the American way. That's it. But I guess that's not PC...
It has nothing to do with PC (the most overused term in the modern world -- and most misunderstood, but that's a different discussion).

It has to do with a couple of things. Superman didn't start out as the character that most people (who are, btw, imagining a character that's 50 years out of date) think of. Read "Action Comics #1" sometime.

Also, this "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" version of the Man of Steel hasn't existed in the comics in ages. He just hasn't.

More to the point, though, even though a world that includes Superman is fantastical on its face, you need to present some sort of world that is recognizable to the audience. You also need to present a character that is more complicated than some two-dimensional representation of out-of-date ideals. The Superman movie that some people seem to want would be about as interesting as watching paint dry, IMO.

Now, this isn't to say that Snyder's approach was the correct one (I happen to like the film, but understand that others don't and why). But people seem to want to paint this as some sort of showdown between what we got in MoS and a modernized movie version of the George Reeves show. That's incredibly over-simplifying.
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:17 PM   #5366
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Originally Posted by Lt. Brannigan View Post
The point is, it's there if you want watch it. I am tired of having the same ground covered again and again.... and again. We have seen Superman's youth on display in 2 movies, 2 TV series and countless comic books. I think it would be a novel idea to just start when he's been Superman for a while.



I enjoyed it, mostly. It took some really stupid turns and needlessly killed off the best character in the show halfway through its run. Also because of stupid rights issues we never got to see Tom Welling truly become Superman. Also the finale was anger inducing.
yeah, I got the point. I actually agree.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:07 AM   #5367
Lt. Brannigan Lt. Brannigan is offline
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yeah, I got the point. I actually agree.
Darn.... I was hoping for a long drawn out argument. Now what am I going to do with my spare time?
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:53 AM   #5368
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I also loved it. Don't get all the extreme hate.
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Old 09-09-2015, 03:04 AM   #5369
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Originally Posted by Yojimbo68 View Post
I personally think that Superman should have an idealized comic book morality. Batman, that's a different story. But Superman...can't we have just one Comic Book hero who stays idealized? When I go to a Superman movie, I don't want to be reminded of how grey the world is. I want a guy who fights for truth, justice and the American way. That's it. But I guess that's not PC...
The original movies still exist, which depict that Superman quite well. I am glad this one went for something different.
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Old 09-09-2015, 04:04 PM   #5370
Yojimbo68 Yojimbo68 is offline
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It has nothing to do with PC (the most overused term in the modern world -- and most misunderstood, but that's a different discussion).

It has to do with a couple of things. Superman didn't start out as the character that most people (who are, btw, imagining a character that's 50 years out of date) think of. Read "Action Comics #1" sometime.

Also, this "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" version of the Man of Steel hasn't existed in the comics in ages. He just hasn't.

More to the point, though, even though a world that includes Superman is fantastical on its face, you need to present some sort of world that is recognizable to the audience. You also need to present a character that is more complicated than some two-dimensional representation of out-of-date ideals. The Superman movie that some people seem to want would be about as interesting as watching paint dry, IMO.

Now, this isn't to say that Snyder's approach was the correct one (I happen to like the film, but understand that others don't and why). But people seem to want to paint this as some sort of showdown between what we got in MoS and a modernized movie version of the George Reeves show. That's incredibly over-simplifying.
People on this very forum have issues with the "American way" slogan. That's PC dude...

I thought the original Superman: The Movie dealt with Superman in a great way. It acknowledged the past while updating it to the then modern 70's. But they never lost sight of who the character was. And that version of Superman is not two dimensional at all. It's sad but maybe you're right that the ideals of the old school Superman are "out of date". All the more reason to bring them to the forefront. Personally, I think audiences are thirsting for a character that they can really root for that has a high standard of ideals. There are plenty of ambiguous Super Heroes in contemporary comics and films.
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Old 09-09-2015, 04:42 PM   #5371
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Darn.... I was hoping for a long drawn out argument. Now what am I going to do with my spare time?
Glad I disappointed you. Although I'll partake if attacked, I'm not into the drawn out, dumb back and forths.
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:05 PM   #5372
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People on this very forum have issues with the "American way" slogan. That's PC dude...

I thought the original Superman: The Movie dealt with Superman in a great way. It acknowledged the past while updating it to the then modern 70's. But they never lost sight of who the character was. And that version of Superman is not two dimensional at all. It's sad but maybe you're right that the ideals of the old school Superman are "out of date". All the more reason to bring them to the forefront. Personally, I think audiences are thirsting for a character that they can really root for that has a high standard of ideals. There are plenty of ambiguous Super Heroes in contemporary comics and films.
I'm in on the long game for the franchise. S:TMP is as near and dear to my heart as any film, it is that pitch perfect. But this will be a hi continuity cinematic Superman story and I'll be rooting for it to succeed. I think the treatment of the Kents is a bit wonky, compared to how they have traditionally functioned in the mythos but that's my only real problem with the interpretation. The rest of it, I think is pretty damn great, although I find it ironic how much of Donner's Krypton they ended up keeping.

I think your note about contemporary heroes is quite valid, and it would stake out territory no one else is willing to.
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:22 PM   #5373
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Originally Posted by Yojimbo68 View Post
People on this very forum have issues with the "American way" slogan. That's PC dude...

I thought the original Superman: The Movie dealt with Superman in a great way. It acknowledged the past while updating it to the then modern 70's. But they never lost sight of who the character was. And that version of Superman is not two dimensional at all. It's sad but maybe you're right that the ideals of the old school Superman are "out of date". All the more reason to bring them to the forefront. Personally, I think audiences are thirsting for a character that they can really root for that has a high standard of ideals. There are plenty of ambiguous Super Heroes in contemporary comics and films.
This Superman had plenty of "American Way" references.
They just weren't baby-fed to the audience.
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