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Old 07-03-2015, 04:17 PM   #1261
baheidstu baheidstu is offline
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I don't remember who made the point, but it seems like the gay thing changed faster than something like race relations, because of the more even distribution of gay people amongst all walks of life, families, workplaces and economic backgrounds. I suppose the internet also played a part.

It is funny to see how this stuff has evolved in cinema. I'd say that the lesbian scene in THE HUNGER would still raise an eyebrow today, but would be more the thing of snickering on late night talk-shows than revulsion. You certainly wouldn't have seen a similar scene between men back then, nor now, probably. At least not in a mainstream film with name actors. Part of that is a general lack of studio support for anything controversial that can't be marketed everywhere, including parts of the world where that wouldn't fly.

As it was, THE HUNGER bombed. It's kind of amazing that it ever got made the way it did to begin with. The closest thing I can relate it to is the remake of THE CAT PEOPLE for overall unholsum kinkyness.
This exactly. Lesbianism has always been viewed as something sexy for straight men which is why you often see it depicted in mainstream films and always between straight looking lipstick lesbians. I can think of several films featuring scenes like that in mainstream films, but as far as male homosexuality it's usually restricted to a kiss, or a film like Wet Hot American Summer where the scene is played largely for shock value laughs. Midnight Express almost went "all the way" but just as things were heating up, the characters chickened out.
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Old 07-03-2015, 09:04 PM   #1262
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This exactly. Lesbianism has always been viewed as something sexy for straight men which is why you often see it depicted in mainstream films and always between straight looking lipstick lesbians. I can think of several films featuring scenes like that in mainstream films, but as far as male homosexuality it's usually restricted to a kiss, or a film like Wet Hot American Summer where the scene is played largely for shock value laughs. Midnight Express almost went "all the way" but just as things were heating up, the characters chickened out.
I remember sitting in an audience for David Cronenberg's CRASH, which for those who don't know is kinky thriller about people who are aroused by car accidents.

Needless to say there is some pretty off-beat, and kinky illustrations of this fetish. At one point the two lead male actors who have only been seen engaging in heterosexual sex start to have pretty non-explicit sex. The notion was not that they were suddenly interested in gay sex, but that because they both shared this stronger, all-consuming fetish for car sex tied to car accidents, that it was almost immaterial what gender they were as long as focus was car crashes. This was easily the most tame, most clothed sexual encounter in a movie full of explicit hetero sexual encounters, yet a noticeably large group in the audience got up and left the theater I was in. I thought to myself, "so here's a film that explicitly depicts people getting it on before and after crashing their cars, but it was suggested sex between two guys that cleared the room?" Go figure?

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Old 07-03-2015, 11:48 PM   #1263
JekYL JekYL is offline
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I remember sitting in an audience for David Cronenberg's CRASH, which for those who don't know is kinky thriller about people who are aroused by car accidents.

Needless to say there is some pretty off-beat, and kinky illustrations of this fetish. At one point the two lead male actors who have only been seen engaging in heterosexual sex start to have pretty non-explicit sex. The notion was not that they were suddenly interested in gay sex, but that because they both shared this stronger, all-consuming fetish for car sex tied to car accidents, that it was almost immaterial what gender they were as long as focus was car crashes. This was easily the most tame, most clothed sexual encounter in a movie full of explicit hetero sexual encounters, yet a noticeably large group in the audience got up and left the theater I was in. I thought to myself, "so here's a film that explicitly depicts people getting it on before and after crashing their cars, but it was suggested sex between two guys that cleared the room?" Go figure?
While I don't disagree with what you're saying at all, you are right. I find it hard to believe you watched Crash in theaters. It's obviously not impossible, but it seems too convenient and neat. Like you just made this story about Crash in the theaters to feed your agenda. I don't know, just comes across as false to me...
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Old 07-03-2015, 11:51 PM   #1264
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I suspect we're more likely to see steamy lesbian scenes in movies because it's something that both sexes (straight) can appreciate, whereas straight men really don't want to see male homosexuality (graphically depicted) and I'm not sure how women truly feel about it either? That's not to say I'm offended by homosexuality - to each their own - just that I don't take any pleasure in watching it.
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Old 07-04-2015, 12:04 AM   #1265
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I suspect we're more likely to see steamy lesbian scenes in movies because it's something that both sexes (straight) can appreciate, whereas straight men really don't want to see male homosexuality (graphically depicted) and I'm not sure how women truly feel about it either? That's not to say I'm offended by homosexuality - to each their own - just that I don't take any pleasure in watching it.
Totally. I personally don't care either way. Lesbian or Homosexual love scenes (graphic or otherwise) don't bother me in the slightest. But I know lot's of guy friends who at least act grossed out when they see homosexual scenes. I don't know if that's just them being insecure and trying to "prove" they're not gay, or if they genuinely don't like seeing it.

Then there's my girlfriend, who claims she's not interested in sex with a girl, and that she couldn't do it, or would chicken out, but finds lesbian scenes in film hot. She's also fascinated by homosexuality, and likes seeing gay relationships in movies, but for some reason she doesn't like seeing a man and another man get it on. Like seeing the actual act, I mean.
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Old 07-04-2015, 01:52 AM   #1266
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Originally Posted by timothy ramzyk View Post
I remember sitting in an audience for David Cronenberg's CRASH, which for those who don't know is kinky thriller about people who are aroused by car accidents.

Needless to say there is some pretty off-beat, and kinky illustrations of this fetish. At one point the two lead male actors who have only been seen engaging in heterosexual sex start to have pretty non-explicit sex. The notion was not that they were suddenly interested in gay sex, but that because they both shared this stronger, all-consuming fetish for car sex tied to car accidents, that it was almost immaterial what gender they were as long as focus was car crashes. This was easily the most tame, most clothed sexual encounter in a movie full of explicit hetero sexual encounters, yet a noticeably large group in the audience got up and left the theater I was in. I thought to myself, "so here's a film that explicitly depicts people getting it on before and after crashing their cars, but it was suggested sex between two guys that cleared the room?" Go figure?
I'll be honest with you, as a 90's teen raised on generally homophobic attitudes I remember watching Six Feet Under on HBO and at first being really put-off by the homosexual love scenes between Keith and David. I loved the show though, so I powered through, and before I knew it I found those scenes not only acceptable but also really sweet. I think us 90's teens and the generations before were just so sheltered from it and raised to fear it so much we couldn't handle it, but then media and the internet made us realize pretty quickly through exposure that it's no big f'ing deal.

By the time Six Feet Under ended with scenes of a gay marriage I was rooting for those characters and arguing for it to happen in real life, and now it has, and that's a very cool thing.
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Old 07-04-2015, 02:59 AM   #1267
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I suspect we're more likely to see steamy lesbian scenes in movies because it's something that both sexes (straight) can appreciate, whereas straight men really don't want to see male homosexuality (graphically depicted) and I'm not sure how women truly feel about it either? That's not to say I'm offended by homosexuality - to each their own - just that I don't take any pleasure in watching it.
At the risk of straying even further off-topic...

Traditionally speaking (i.e. at least back to the 80s) homosexual "slash" fan-fiction was mostly created and read by heterosexual women. I knew a fair number of straight women who just loved the stuff.
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Old 07-04-2015, 03:12 AM   #1268
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Originally Posted by timothy ramzyk View Post
I remember sitting in an audience for David Cronenberg's CRASH, which for those who don't know is kinky thriller about people who are aroused by car accidents.

Needless to say there is some pretty off-beat, and kinky illustrations of this fetish. At one point the two lead male actors who have only been seen engaging in heterosexual sex start to have pretty non-explicit sex. The notion was not that they were suddenly interested in gay sex, but that because they both shared this stronger, all-consuming fetish for car sex tied to car accidents, that it was almost immaterial what gender they were as long as focus was car crashes. This was easily the most tame, most clothed sexual encounter in a movie full of explicit hetero sexual encounters, yet a noticeably large group in the audience got up and left the theater I was in. I thought to myself, "so here's a film that explicitly depicts people getting it on before and after crashing their cars, but it was suggested sex between two guys that cleared the room?" Go figure?
When that scene came on a guy in the row next to my buddy and I made a mad dash out of the theatre auditorium ....leaving his girlfriend sitting there eating popcorn like nothing happened. It was such a loud panicked ruckus, tripping over his girlfriends legs and banging and kicking the back of the seats in a mad dash to run from what was happening on the screen...I've never seen someone panic like that during a film...it was so hilarious and unexpected....we couldn't stop laughing. The guy couldn't get out of the theatre fast enough. That incident made our night ....couldn't stop laughing. Sad some people get so emotionally worked up over such subject matter.
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Old 07-04-2015, 03:44 AM   #1269
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While I don't disagree with what you're saying at all, you are right. I find it hard to believe you watched Crash in theaters. It's obviously not impossible, but it seems too convenient and neat. Like you just made this story about Crash in the theaters to feed your agenda. I don't know, just comes across as false to me...
Yes, because it's so unlikely that someone on a movie related forum would have watched a movie in a movie theatre.
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Old 07-04-2015, 06:56 AM   #1270
timothy ramzyk timothy ramzyk is offline
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While I don't disagree with what you're saying at all, you are right. I find it hard to believe you watched Crash in theaters. It's obviously not impossible, but it seems too convenient and neat. Like you just made this story about Crash in the theaters to feed your agenda. I don't know, just comes across as false to me...
How silly. Why would I have pulled this film out of my hat? I live in a college town and saw CRASH when it came out at the Oriental Landmark Theater, which is part of a chain that shows arthouse films... like CRASH.

Apparently I'm not the only one who experienced this phenomena from the sound of what someone else just wrote.

No agenda, just an actual occurrence. Not sure why you'd have cause to doubt it. I'd have nothing gain by making up such a story.
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Old 07-04-2015, 07:14 AM   #1271
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I'll be honest with you, as a 90's teen raised on generally homophobic attitudes I remember watching Six Feet Under on HBO and at first being really put-off by the homosexual love scenes between Keith and David. I loved the show though, so I powered through, and before I knew it I found those scenes not only acceptable but also really sweet. I think us 90's teens and the generations before were just so sheltered from it and raised to fear it so much we couldn't handle it, but then media and the internet made us realize pretty quickly through exposure that it's no big f'ing deal.
I'll be honest with you, I'm gay, and I wasn't even used seeing scenes like that on television, so they initially caught me off guard. It's not that they disgusted me, it was simply that I'd not seen gay intimacy in a show aimed at a general, adult audiences before, and there was probably something about it that made me self-conscious and slightly anxious at first.
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Old 07-04-2015, 08:52 AM   #1272
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How silly. Why would I have pulled this film out of my hat? I live in a college town and saw CRASH when it came out at the Oriental Landmark Theater, which is part of a chain that shows arthouse films... like CRASH.

Apparently I'm not the only one who experienced this phenomena from the sound of what someone else just wrote.

No agenda, just an actual occurrence. Not sure why you'd have cause to doubt it. I'd have nothing gain by making up such a story.
Well fair enough if it actually happened. I had no idea how old you are, but if you were in college at the time, then yes it's totally possible. I just assumed you were in your 30s or younger (for whatever reason, who knows...) which would have made you to young at the time to be randomly seeing a movie like Crash at the time of its release, especially with such a limited run. So I questioned it.
Far too many times on message boards I'll see people making up some random ridiculous story of something that happened to them at the movies, just so they push whatever point it is they're trying to get across.
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Old 07-04-2015, 03:16 PM   #1273
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Well fair enough if it actually happened. I had no idea how old you are, but if you were in college at the time, then yes it's totally possible. I just assumed you were in your 30s or younger (for whatever reason, who knows...) which would have made you to young at the time to be randomly seeing a movie like Crash at the time of its release, especially with such a limited run. So I questioned it.
Far too many times on message boards I'll see people making up some random ridiculous story of something that happened to them at the movies, just so they push whatever point it is they're trying to get across.
Well, I have no doubt believing your experience at a CRASH screening at that movie theatre. I think the film was so uncomfortable and bizarre to so many sitting in the audience that when the male make out scene in the car started, most of the audience had had enough and got up and left. I saw the movie at the Meadowbrook on Long Island with only about 20 people in the audience. But only that one guy had a serious reaction and ran from the auditorium.
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Old 07-04-2015, 03:49 PM   #1274
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Well, I have no doubt believing your experience at a CRASH screening at that movie theatre. I think the film was so uncomfortable and bizarre to so many sitting in the audience that when the male make out scene in the car started, most of the audience had had enough and got up and left. I saw the movie at the Meadowbrook on Long Island with only about 20 people in the audience. But only that one guy had a serious reaction and ran from the auditorium.
I was 29 when CRASH came out and probably a little older than the general audience. Cronenberg was still primarily thought of as a horror director With films like SCANNERS & THE FLY, so I can see how some people wouldn't know what they were getting into.

Years earlier I had a similar experience with a primarily black male audience. THE GRAND which was Milwaukee's last double-feature grindhouse theater was showing THE FLY with the then new, DEAD RINGERS. It was always kind of a ruckus crowd that that went to THE GRAND, and this was no exception. Everyone has a good interactive time with THE FLY, then DEAD RINGERS came on and you could hear a pin drop. After things started to get gynecological, I heard audible groans and eventually I was like one of ten people in a theater that must have had close to 70 in the audience for the first feature.

Cronenberg was good for that I guess.
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Old 07-04-2015, 04:00 PM   #1275
timothy ramzyk timothy ramzyk is offline
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Well fair enough if it actually happened. I had no idea how old you are, but if you were in college at the time, then yes it's totally possible. I just assumed you were in your 30s or younger (for whatever reason, who knows...) which would have made you to young at the time to be randomly seeing a movie like Crash at the time of its release, especially with such a limited run. So I questioned it.
Far too many times on message boards I'll see people making up some random ridiculous story of something that happened to them at the movies, just so they push whatever point it is they're trying to get across.
Nope, I'm 47-year-old fart and was the right age to have seen Croneberg, Lynch, Waters and even some Romero in theaters.

It's worth noting that even small-town cinemas still had "midnight movies" then, where they could slip in stuff too off-color or unrated for the prime-time crowd. Though I saw CRASH (which I think was NC-17) at a normal showtime.
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Old 07-04-2015, 07:09 PM   #1276
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Nope, I'm 47-year-old fart and was the right age to have seen Croneberg, Lynch, Waters and even some Romero in theaters.
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