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Old 06-28-2016, 03:43 PM   #41
segagamer12 segagamer12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlanga View Post
You mean the Ps4/X1 disc which you have to install in a hard drive anyways? The last gen was the last one we could put a disc in and play w/out having to copy it to a hard drive. More and more people are choosing straight up digital due to sales and sharing between a few consoles.


i don't understand how you guys want to play games in 4k. Games are not movies, its NOT only about hard drive size. You need much more resources than what it exists for current console costs. Expect 4K gaming on future consoles at least 6 years AFTER 4K becomes standard on PC gaming.
You don't seem to know how it works. You don't install the game from the disc and play it off the hard drive, it installs the files that are not easy to stream fast from the disc and runs the game from the disc. At least I never bought a game where I installed the entire game to the hard drive from the disc and put the disc away.
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Old 12-24-2016, 08:27 PM   #42
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Supporting the OP (not a rumor) and at the same time answering some of the posts in this thread:

Note: Charlie at Semiaccurate in 2012 posted that "Moles" at AMD were excited by Known Good Die and 2.5D stacked Memory being used by Game Consoles. Most of the discussions about stacked memory, KGD on Interposer, HSAIL and HSA, we now know, were not about the 2013 PS4 but the 2018 PS4 or PS5.

Date:

First cite:
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.tweaktown.com/news/48910/amd-expects-xbox-one-ps4-market-until-2019/index.html
Even though the next-gen consoles, currently teased as the Xbox Two and PS5, aren't expected for a few more years - we're now finding out how long this generation will last for. AMD has said that it will continue to supply APUs for the Xbox One and PS4, with a life cycle til 2019.
Second cite:

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://efficientgaming.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/Games_Consoles_Self-Regulatory_Initiative.pdf

Tier 1 Effective from 1st January 2014 >> PS4 1.8 TF 28nm

Tier 2 Effective from 1st January 2016 >> PS4 second version 28nm Global Foundries process

Tier 3 Effective from 1st January 2017 >> PS4 slim and Pro 14nm Polaris

Tier 4 Effective from 1st January 2019 >> PS4? or PS5 7nm Navi
Third cite, the above match up with the AMD GPU ROADMAP

Features:

What is the major difference besides performance in the PS5 chipset?

1) PS4 and XB1 2013 through 2017 require a separate ARM block for Codecs and encryption for DRM media (PS4's is in Southbridge while the XB1 is in the APU). The current GPUs can not be used for commercial codecs. Besides full HSAIL I expect the memory (the 2013 XB1 was the first AMD APU to have protected memory modes), CPU and GPU in the PS5 to have protected modes allowing DRM just like ARM does now. This is a side benefit due to a GPU controller being necessary for multiple smaller GPU blocks on Interposer which come with Known Good Die on interposer designs.

2) Coming with Navi and Zen, 10GB/sec Ethernet
3) Southbridge and Northbridge will be a part of the chipset which allows instant on like Carrizo now.

Note I'll update and post here when we know what's coming.

The 2012 Sony- Masaaki Tsuruta Interview about the next generation PS4 was largely about the 2019 Playstation given the features mentioned which match the AMD Navi GPU. A second Sony Technology VP mentioned the stacked memory was needed for 3D bandwidth.

"Sony's target of no more than 50ms latency even for 8k x 4k resolution at 300fps, clearly points to the need for a highly integrated TSV-based package." Is clearly about VR and 3D commercial media and beyond anything possible till 2019.

In the following slide from AMD, the sweet spot at a minimum is just barely greater than PS4, is in the middle the PS4 Pro and likely at the maximum of the sweet spot, the Navi PS(5). This I believe impacted the Sony Console Roadmap.



The 2013, 2015 and 2016 PS4s have HDMI 2.0a ports (now confirmed) and are called UHD capable by Sony in the efficientgaming.eu website. It is not known if the ARM block in the PS4 has a DSP powerful enough to support a HEVC codec for 4K commercial media. For sure the PS4 GPU is powerful enough to support multiple HEVC streams of 4K non commercial media. We are still waiting for confirmation on what Sony means by UHD Capable.

The wording of the AMD statement has implications:

They will stop making both XB1 and PS4 chipsets 2019 because (now my speculation):
1) The PS5 chipset will emulate all older chipsets.
2) The price will be in line with older chipsets even though it has more performance and features.

How is it possible to have a cheaper AND more powerful chipset? The PS4 pro with twice the performance of the 2013 PS4 is about the same price the PS4 launched at Nov 2013 due to the move from 28 nm to 14 nm. Doubling the number of GPU CUs did not take any more die space due to the node reduction. Navi in 2018 @ 7nm is a Known Good Die on interposer design with several smaller GPU blocks assembled on interposer rather than one large GPU block. Rather than have about a 15% redundancy in GPU CUs the smaller GPU blocks are tested before assembly on the interposer and only know good die are used. This is more efficient and results in less wasted die.

Multiple GPUs on Interposer requires a controller for scheduling and power. With less load maybe only one GPU block is turned on. If DSP is included, it will also be on the interposer because the interposer has the memory. It will also be turned on and off to save power. All the features of HSA and HSAIL will be needed and used and at the same time support protected modes for DRM.

Commercial VR will be possible with the PS5 (10-7 NM). Minimum of 8 TF (5X PS4) and as much as 10TF at a Livingroom TDP. Multiple GPUs can be distributed over the larger surface area of the Interposer allowing a higher TDP.

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 12-24-2016 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 12-24-2016, 09:28 PM   #43
jeff_rigby jeff_rigby is offline
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Also discussed in 2012, implications of HSAIL. Known Good Die on Interposer with multiple GPUs managed by a controller which likely doubles as the HSAIL controller, requires a new way to use GPUs in game and for Browsers. Since you are already managing multiple GPUs and other CPUs locally, there is no reason other than latency for not using off chip resources:

If AMD includes a HSA 2 IOMMU for the 10GB/sec LAN port then they can support HSAIL/HSA Distributed processing which was a dream of Sony's for the Cell processor as seen in Sony patents.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=j8j...page&q&f=false

The patent is for both a Gakai like Cloud server and distributed processing 2nd generation Cell Vision - Cell and APU hardware implementation allowing the "Cell Vision" of sharing processor, memory and data over broadband network (Internet and wireless) with a common ISA instruction set. This is the AMD HSA IL (JIT Virtual machine) which "Scales from Handheld to Supercomputer".

The date in the patent is Dec 8, 2011, it's after Sony chose the AMD APU for the PS4, it starts with Cell in PDAs (1 cell personal handheld devices like cell phones and Tablets), TVs 4 cell...you get the point, as many cell processors (CPU + SPU) as needed by the device and goes on to use Cell and APU as equivalent building blocks Cell=APU=(CPU + GPGPU)=(CPU + SPU).

The Dec 8, 2011 date is important! The first picture with Cell in everything is the original vision with Cell still planned for advanced CE devices displaying 4K (TV and high end 4K blu-ray). Cell is in the Toshiba 4K TV and it does have features not possible without Cell.

Toshiba PDF mentioning the reason for the Cell (power wall, Frequency wall) and applies to Heterogeneous Cell as well as Fusion APU.

Quote:
SPURS engine (4SPUs) designed to be included in platforms with other processors like X86 (Face Recognition, Media codec, Gesture recognition and more). This is now or will soon be provided by GPGPUs in platforms with GPUs. Platforms that need this power but don't need GPUs will probably use Cell (4K TV, 4K Blu-Ray). PDF also mentions clusters of cell over network to share processing, POSIX etc. This is a 2008 "Cell Vision" and the 2011 Sony patent is a later "cell vision" also including a Virtual engine like PS Suite's Mono.

Quote:
You can reuse your application and library running on SPE across all Cell family processor. All your efforts on one platform are preserved on other platforms.
Please quit “reinvention of the wheel”

Please join us to create common environment
Please stop developing environment, but feedback to common environment instead
Please focus on your actual applications
Please look forward to enjoying compatibility
Firstly, write your code using PS3 or CRS(Toshiba’s Cell Reference Set)
Then, scale up to high performance computing world using QS22 or later blades without any modification
And, make available to PC users using SpursEngine!
That AMD is including HSAIL in future AMD Full HSA Fusion APUs (2018? and later) means a future PS4 and future PCs (at least AMD) will be able to share application code and data transparently using HSAIL. I don't know how far this will be taken......it's possible to have the same applications run on PS4 and AMD PCs because of the HSA IL virtual machine.

AMD is addressing this via HSA. HSA addresses these fundamental points by introducing an intermediate layer (HSAIL) that insulates software stacks from the individual ISAs. This is a fundamental enabler to the convergence of SW stacks on top of HC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.anandtech.com/show/5847/answered-by-the-experts-heterogeneous-and-gpu-compute-with-amds-manju-hegde/3
Unless the install base is large enough, the investment to port *all* standard languages across to an ISA is forbiddingly large. Individual companies like AMD are motivated but can only target a few languages at a time. And the software community is not motivated if the install base is fragmented. HSA breaks this deadlock by providing a "virtual ISA" in the form of HSAIL that unifies the view of HW platforms for SW developers. It is important to note that this is not just about functionality but preserves performance sufficiently to make the SW stack truly portable across HSA platforms
Industry consortium to tackle open spec for software use across multicore devices

ARM, AMD Other companies in the HSA Foundation are Texas Instruments, which develops chips for smartphones, Imagination Technologies, which develops graphics technology used in smartphones and tablets and MediaTek, which provides mobile chips.

Quote:
The Heterogeneous System Architecture (HSA) Foundation will provide an open hardware interface specification under which program execution can be easily offloaded to other processing resources available in servers, PCs and mobile devices. The new specification will lead to applications that are portable across architectures, while also enabling workloads to be broken up between CPUs and graphics processors for faster and more power efficient computing.
= Cell vision 2011

Quote:
Software is usually written specific to a device, and the HSA Foundation is an effort to abstract the hardware layer so software can work across the multiple devices and cores, said Dean McCarron, principal analyst at Mercury Research.
For example, smartphones have customized versions of Android, but a standardized specification could provide the groundwork to abstract the hardware, which could enable Android builds to work across different devices.

"It looks to me like they are laying down some of the infrastructure to enable some portability," McCarron said. "If you established what amounts to a standard API for cores, that interaction can be abstracted."
= HSAIL which applies to multi core in the same machine and distributed processing across the home network between multiple platforms.

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 12-24-2016 at 09:54 PM.
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Old 01-08-2017, 07:45 AM   #44
steelertown steelertown is offline
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Originally Posted by SleeperAgent View Post
So much this. I will never buy a console without physical games.
Agreed with this quote. I have bought a few digital games for the first time ever due to some good deals through flash sales, however my preference is buying a real disc version.

Not only would I be disappointed if I couldn't buy a disc version of a game, I would be disappointed if the ps5 followed the ps4 pro and didn't include a 4k drive for movies. Kind of a deal breaker for me.
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:57 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by steelertown View Post
Not only would I be disappointed if I couldn't buy a disc version of a game, I would be disappointed if the ps5 followed the ps4 pro and didn't include a 4k drive for movies. Kind of a deal breaker for me.
By the time the PS5 comes out UHD Blu-ray players will likely be under $100. Personally I'd never use an expensive console to play movies, I'd rather put the extra wear and tear on a $50-$100 standalone player than a $400-$500 console.

Though I expect the PS5 will support UHD Blu-ray anyway and that'll be good for the format. More people will be able to buy UHD Blu-rays that never would have bothered to buy a stand-alone player.
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Old 01-08-2017, 10:34 PM   #46
Mavrick Mavrick is offline
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It's a tough one to call.

I honestly thought PS5 would be announced circa 2018 and launched between 2019/2020. But now with the death of generational life cycles it really throws a spanner in the works.

What motivation will there be to launch a PS5 so soon. When the Pro helped Sony sell over 6million units over Christmas I think they would be more than happy to continue selling Pro.

Sony made a loud statement by not including a UHD drive in the Pro. Claiming that their own research has shown more people rather watch streams or downloads than buy physical discs. That would suggest that they expect physical disc sales to decline even more by the time they are ready to announce the PS5 or whatever they decide their next hardware iteration to be called. So why would they decide to put in a UHD drive in the future if by their own account even less people will be taking advantage of it?

Personally I don't believe their excuse for not including a UHD drive. Sure their data may well indicate that, but in reality they just wanted to cheap out to make a bigger profit. After all, the BD drive they included with the Pro is the exact same one as they used in the slim. One drive for two machines = a massive cost saving on millions and millions of units.

I do expect the next console to have UHD drive though. Simply because the cost of the drives will be lower, not that they are that expensive now. Also because I can't see any company dropping physical media on home consoles for at least 10 more years. So if you're going to have a disc drive anyway why not a UHD one?

There's still a lot of time between now and then though, and Sony are already well under way working on the new console, so I'm sure they will go through multiple design choices and set ups before coming to a final product.

All we know for now is that their bold move to not include a UHD drive in the Pro doesn't seem to have hurt them at all, bar for a few vocal minorities online denouncing them for it. Doesn't matter how loud they are though as money will always talk louder, and if they see the Pro has been selling well then they proved themselves right by not including one.
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:06 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
It's a tough one to call.

I honestly thought PS5 would be announced circa 2018 and launched between 2019/2020. But now with the death of generational life cycles it really throws a spanner in the works.

What motivation will there be to launch a PS5 so soon. When the Pro helped Sony sell over 6million units over Christmas I think they would be more than happy to continue selling Pro.

Sony made a loud statement by not including a UHD drive in the Pro. Claiming that their own research has shown more people rather watch streams or downloads than buy physical discs. That would suggest that they expect physical disc sales to decline even more by the time they are ready to announce the PS5 or whatever they decide their next hardware iteration to be called. So why would they decide to put in a UHD drive in the future if by their own account even less people will be taking advantage of it?

Personally I don't believe their excuse for not including a UHD drive. Sure their data may well indicate that, but in reality they just wanted to cheap out to make a bigger profit. After all, the BD drive they included with the Pro is the exact same one as they used in the slim. One drive for two machines = a massive cost saving on millions and millions of units.

I do expect the next console to have UHD drive though. Simply because the cost of the drives will be lower, not that they are that expensive now. Also because I can't see any company dropping physical media on home consoles for at least 10 more years. So if you're going to have a disc drive anyway why not a UHD one?

There's still a lot of time between now and then though, and Sony are already well under way working on the new console, so I'm sure they will go through multiple design choices and set ups before coming to a final product.

All we know for now is that their bold move to not include a UHD drive in the Pro doesn't seem to have hurt them at all, bar for a few vocal minorities online denouncing them for it. Doesn't matter how loud they are though as money will always talk louder, and if they see the Pro has been selling well then they proved themselves right by not including one.
Sounds about right. Every successive Playstation has been released 6 to 7 years after the previous one. That would mean 2019 or 2020 for PS5. Prior to 2019 I doubt anything is released by Sony other than maybe another slightly upgraded PS4.
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:21 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by ChadFL View Post
Sounds about right. Every successive Playstation has been released 6 to 7 years after the previous one. That would mean 2019 or 2020 for PS5. Prior to 2019 I doubt anything is released by Sony other than maybe another slightly upgraded PS4.
I would imagine a PS4 Pro Slim or something like that. Another unit that will cut costs and increase profit, by reeling in the hold outs from launch or those that have finally made the jump to 4K and are after a cheap entry point to 4K gaming.

I'm intrigued by the Scorpio though. It's likely to have 2 or so years on the market to itself with the title of worlds most powerful games console. But based on the 6TF target it still won't be enough to run all games at native 4K just like the PS4 can't run all games at native 4K.

It's very likely to end up using the same tricks the Pro does and output an upscalled 4K image for most games.

I'm sure people will buy it, but it's not likely to close the 20million plus gap between PS and Xbox at this stage.
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:49 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
Personally I don't believe their excuse for not including a UHD drive. Sure their data may well indicate that, but in reality they just wanted to cheap out to make a bigger profit. After all, the BD drive they included with the Pro is the exact same one as they used in the slim. One drive for two machines = a massive cost saving on millions and millions of units.

I do expect the next console to have UHD drive though. Simply because the cost of the drives will be lower, not that they are that expensive now. Also because I can't see any company dropping physical media on home consoles for at least 10 more years. So if you're going to have a disc drive anyway why not a UHD one?
Sony didn't include a UHD drive because they wanted to sell their own 4K download and streaming service. But the PS5 will definitely need the benefit of 100GB discs for games. Therefore the included drive will already be UHD Blu-ray capable and they won't have a valid excuse for not supporting it.

Plus I suspect that the specifications for the PS4 Pro were already finalized before Microsoft announced the Xbox One S. Sony wasn't willing to change their existing plans (and likely delay the system), but they won't design a new system from the ground up that lacks features of their competition.

Last edited by PenguinMaster; 01-08-2017 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:18 AM   #50
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PS5 will have UHD disk support and I have absolutely no doubts on that at all. I don't care what people claim, but streaming 4K is never ever going to be as good as a full fat proper reference level UHD.

The PS4 Pro didn't need UHD because whilst it's more powerful and capable of native and FauxK, it isn't mainstream adopted for UHD movies to warrant that drive being used and smarter to reap the extra profits. Even if a minority claim it's a 'premium' product, the bottom line and truth is that the PS4 Pro was marketed as Sony's top of the line gaming machine. Not a home entertainment hub a la PS3 marketing.

Between 2017 and 2019 we may start getting more news leak about the PS5 but if had to guess, I'd say Sony are going to be targeting native 4K quite heavily with the PS4 Pro being the best testing ground fe the future. Console cycles Imo are still in effect but we've just got a bit of an aberration in terms of PS3 having been longed out and PS4 gen having a mid gen power boost but look at the wider factors in both cases:

PS3 launched by Sony as a stealth weapon to drive Blu Ray adoption in the format war and didn't centre on gaming like its predecessors as much as a media entertainment centre and a high price point relative to the competition which had already launched a year before with DVDs. Then we see how much the higher price point hurt and sales had to really catch up with price cuts and solid games finally releasing. Xbox had the whole RRoD fiasco and MS lost a ton of money and had no reason to try and release the new console whilst still trying to recoup as much as possible.

Cut to PS4 gen. The console launched to great fanfare at both price and what it could do compared to X1 which had a really bad start which kudos to MS they've really turned things around and tried to foster goodwill but too late at this point and Sony has won the gen BUT then we run into a tech shape up. Just as we were thinking PS3 was going to give us 3D gaming as a taste and PS4 advances that, we end up seeing VR come to the fore alongside another resolution bump to 4K with HDR now in tow. Suddenly Sony decides they need to adapt to this change which they knew was coming and release the PS4 Pro whilst MS showcase the Scorpio concept. Now we've ended up with a mid gen refresh following mobile phones a la iPhone 5 and 5s etc.

I think PS5 should be the return towards a more generational cycle of upgrades. HDR will become defacto and at best, 8K launches the generation after for movies and then gets followed eventually by consoles a la PS2 SD gaming to PS3 HD gaming.

If I can probably guess, 2018 reveals with 2019 release would be possible but likely scenario is 2019 reveal with 2020 release.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:27 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinMaster View Post
Sony didn't include a UHD drive because they wanted to sell their own 4K download and streaming service. But the PS5 will definitely need the benefit of 100GB discs for games. Therefore the included drive will already be UHD Blu-ray capable and they won't have a valid excuse for not supporting it.

Plus I suspect that the specifications for the PS4 Pro were already finalized before Microsoft announced the Xbox One S. Sony wasn't willing to change their existing plans (and likely delay the system), but they won't design a new system from the ground up that lacks features of their competition.
I think the cost difference between the BD drive and a UHD drive was only around the $10 mark. The Pro supports HDCP2.2 and HDMI 2.0 already, adding in the UHD drive even if it was at the last minute wouldn't have caused that much of an issue other than the $ cost increase of the drive eating away at their profit.

They simply saved way more money by using the exact same BD drive in the slim and Pro, bigger order = cheaper wholesale cost = more profit per unit sold.

I'm not sure if we will need 100GB discs for games just yet. We've had 50GB BDs for 10 years almost and only a minority of games actually use up the full 50GB. A lot of games still weigh in under 30GB, it's the patches that are the biggest issue, some of them are starting to come close to being as large as the actual games it's ridiculous.

We haven't had a game that has exceeded a single BD yet, and there really shouldn't be a need to at this stage. Heck, PCs are still using DVD. Consoles shouldn't have a need for 100GB discs for a long time.

But even if we did need UHD discs for the next console, there is no guarantee that Sony would enable it for UHD BD playback.

If they are that concerned with pushing their own digital content they can just leave UHD BD playback disabled just like Nintendo did when the disabled DVD playback on the Wii/U.

In the long run though I really don't care what they do with it personally. I already have 2 UHD players, so it's a non issue for me. I'm interested from a spectators standpoint though. Following gaming industry is more of a hobby these days for me than actually gaming.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:33 AM   #52
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Have there been Pro only numbers yet? Everywhere I read reports say it's not meeting expectations.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:42 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NARMAK View Post
PS5 will have UHD disk support and I have absolutely no doubts on that at all. I don't care what people claim, but streaming 4K is never ever going to be as good as a full fat proper reference level UHD.

The PS4 Pro didn't need UHD because whilst it's more powerful and capable of native and FauxK, it isn't mainstream adopted for UHD movies to warrant that drive being used and smarter to reap the extra profits. Even if a minority claim it's a 'premium' product, the bottom line and truth is that the PS4 Pro was marketed as Sony's top of the line gaming machine. Not a home entertainment hub a la PS3 marketing.

Between 2017 and 2019 we may start getting more news leak about the PS5 but if had to guess, I'd say Sony are going to be targeting native 4K quite heavily with the PS4 Pro being the best testing ground fe the future. Console cycles Imo are still in effect but we've just got a bit of an aberration in terms of PS3 having been longed out and PS4 gen having a mid gen power boost but look at the wider factors in both cases:

PS3 launched by Sony as a stealth weapon to drive Blu Ray adoption in the format war and didn't centre on gaming like its predecessors as much as a media entertainment centre and a high price point relative to the competition which had already launched a year before with DVDs. Then we see how much the higher price point hurt and sales had to really catch up with price cuts and solid games finally releasing. Xbox had the whole RRoD fiasco and MS lost a ton of money and had no reason to try and release the new console whilst still trying to recoup as much as possible.

Cut to PS4 gen. The console launched to great fanfare at both price and what it could do compared to X1 which had a really bad start which kudos to MS they've really turned things around and tried to foster goodwill but too late at this point and Sony has won the gen BUT then we run into a tech shape up. Just as we were thinking PS3 was going to give us 3D gaming as a taste and PS4 advances that, we end up seeing VR come to the fore alongside another resolution bump to 4K with HDR now in tow. Suddenly Sony decides they need to adapt to this change which they knew was coming and release the PS4 Pro whilst MS showcase the Scorpio concept. Now we've ended up with a mid gen refresh following mobile phones a la iPhone 5 and 5s etc.

I think PS5 should be the return towards a more generational cycle of upgrades. HDR will become defacto and at best, 8K launches the generation after for movies and then gets followed eventually by consoles a la PS2 SD gaming to PS3 HD gaming.

If I can probably guess, 2018 reveals with 2019 release would be possible but likely scenario is 2019 reveal with 2020 release.
I feel like generations are now going to follow the iPhone cycle, the PS4 Pro is the "S" year for us, hopefully the next will be the full fat numbered year.

I would think they will be targeting 90% native 4K. Cerny has gone on record to say that a console would need to be pushing at least 8TF to have native 4K across the board.

The only trouble is we still haven't got native 1080p60 across the board let alone 4K. Makes me doubtful to be honest.

Another factor that we can only speculate on is the HDMI 2.1 Spec which is actually a pretty important for gamers.

Not only does it add 8K/10K video and dynamic HDR but more importantly for us is that it adds variable refresh.

'Game Mode VRR' closely mirrors the G-Sync and FreeSync technologies available for PC monitors,offering a "variable refresh rate, which enables a 3D graphics processor to display the image at the moment it is rendered for more fluid and better detailed gameplay, and for reducing lag, stutter and frame-tearing".

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Game Mode VRR could - in theory - see the complete elimination of screen-tear from console video gaming without the judder associated with traditional v-sync, and could also allow developers to target arbitrary frame-rates as performance targets as opposed to the standard 30fps or 60fps (though we wouldn't expect to see this occur too often as older screens will still be the main target). Although it is an HDMI 2.1 feature, the new 48G cable isn't required for today's resolutions - and in theory, this element of the protocol could be retrofitted to existing consoles paired with HDMI 2.1 screens (as we've seen in the past with PS3 3D and PS4 HDR support added to existing consoles via firmware updates). Of course, support in new screens will depend upon manufacturers fully supporting the HDMI 2.1 spec.
I'm more interested to see this implemented in to PS5 than a UHD drive.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:48 AM   #54
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Have there been Pro only numbers yet? Everywhere I read reports say it's not meeting expectations.
I haven't seen any reports on it not meeting expectations.

But it is out of stock 90% of the time, much like the PSVR, Sony aren't getting enough of them shipped to retail so right now there's more demand than supply which is really hurting them.

The PSVR for example has been sold out since before Christmas and the earliest possible shipment Amazon are expecting is early to mid Feb!

The latest figures for the PS4 were combined 6.2million between December 6th and Jan 5th.

We haven't had a Pro in stock where I work for about a month.
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:54 PM   #55
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I love my pro. That is my contribution to this discussion

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Old 01-09-2017, 02:16 PM   #56
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I'm sure PS5's unveiling/release date will depend on the market's reaction to the Scorpio. If Scorpio is killing it in sales and eating into Sony's market share, I'm sure Sony will react. If it's sales stagnate and PS4/PS4 Pro continue to dominate, I'd say Sony will continue to ride that success and be in no rush to get PS5 on the market.
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:37 PM   #57
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I'm sure PS5's unveiling/release date will depend on the market's reaction to the Scorpio. If Scorpio is killing it in sales and eating into Sony's market share, I'm sure Sony will react. If it's sales stagnate and PS4/PS4 Pro continue to dominate, I'd say Sony will continue to ride that success and be in no rush to get PS5 on the market.
The thing is (assuming Scorpio sells well), how soon could SONY release another system without people saying "to hell with it all?"
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Old 01-09-2017, 03:21 PM   #58
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The thing is (assuming Scorpio sells well), how soon could SONY release another system without people saying "to hell with it all?"
There's a 20 million unit gap between the two and it keeps on growing. I don't see how and premium priced console like Scorpio is going to claw back that big of gap.
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Old 01-09-2017, 04:22 PM   #59
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There's a 20 million unit gap between the two and it keeps on growing. I don't see how and premium priced console like Scorpio is going to claw back that big of gap.
Agreed but I wouldn't expect Sony to wait for Scorpio to close the gap before reacting anyway.

What's got me more curious than anything with Scorpio is just HOW big a difference will multiplat games look/run on it compared to the Pro? When Digital Foundry starts posting video comparisons, will the Scorpio versions just completely embarrass the Pro versions? If so I can't imagine Sony allowing that to continue for a great length of time.
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Old 01-09-2017, 04:24 PM   #60
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Quote:
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There's a 20 million unit gap between the two and it keeps on growing. I don't see how and premium priced console like Scorpio is going to claw back that big of gap.
Especially without exclusives to draw people in.
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