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Old 01-05-2014, 07:19 PM   #681
stvn1974 stvn1974 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miniroll32 View Post
When did WB or WHV ever promise that they would be releasing all the Tom and Jerry shorts in chronological order? Let alone complete.
Tom And Jerry The Golden Collection, Volume One kind of implies that there will be other volumes.
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Old 01-05-2014, 07:22 PM   #682
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Originally Posted by ws_sw View Post
WB has the rights to them, THEY DO NOT OWN THEM, ART (NO MATTER IF IT IS MUSIC ART OR VIDEO) is owned by the masses and the people who created them.

WB is pure EVIL censoring these shorts and stealing them from people who want to own a copy of them.
Actually, according to both U.S. and international copyright law, WB does own them. The masses do not own art and performance created by others (except, for most works, 95 years after the creator's death). If you record a song written by others, you have to pay the song's publisher. If you want to use a recorded song in a movie or other work, you have to pay both the publisher and the label. If you take a song and put it up on a streaming site, you have to make payment to Sound Exchange. If I can't come into your house or place of business and take whatever I want, then don't think that you can ethically steal the work of artists. The works most certainly DO NOT belong to you.

You know what happens when art is free and no one can make money on it? It disappears. Aside from Shakespeare, some Sherlock Holmes and some Alexandre Dumas, go to your local bookstore and try to find some public domain works. You won't find very much even though publishers don't have to pay a penny in royalties, as they tend to avoid this material because the second it becomes moderately successful, another publisher can put out the same work and compete with them.

WB may be making an artistic error in not releasing the titles in question, but they're not stealing anything from anyone any more than Disney is stealing when they vault titles or when a publisher or record label lets a title go out-of-print.

Get over it.
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Old 01-05-2014, 08:00 PM   #683
garyd97 garyd97 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miniroll32 View Post
When did WB or WHV ever promise that they would be releasing all the Tom and Jerry shorts in chronological order? Let alone complete.
Jerry Beck confirmed before Vol 1 was released that it would be 37 shorts instead of the 41 because the 4 were not ready and would be included on Vol 2 including Mouse Cleaning.
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Old 01-06-2014, 07:37 PM   #684
Boris S. Boris S. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miniroll32 View Post
When did WB or WHV ever promise that they would be releasing all the Tom and Jerry shorts in chronological order? Let alone complete.
It was never explicitly stated as such, AFAIK. The press release for vol. 1 doesn't mention chronological or "complete series": http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Tom...Volume-1/15823 . That said, in the press release, Mary Ellen Thomas used the word "comprehensive", which suggests complete.

Anyway, even if WB never actually promised either of those things, the trend of chronological presentation certainly seemed to be the case when you look at vol. 1 and the postponed vol. 2's contents (minus the two missing cartoons, of course). And we as collectors deserve the best possible release of this (and other) classic series. That means including every cartoon, uncut.

Last edited by Boris S.; 01-06-2014 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:59 PM   #685
miniroll32 miniroll32 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris S. View Post
It was never explicitly stated as such, AFAIK. The press release for vol. 1 doesn't mention chronological or "complete series": http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Tom...Volume-1/15823 . That said, in the press release, Mary Ellen Thomas used the word "comprehensive", which suggests complete.

Anyway, even if WB never actually promised either of those things, the trend of chronological presentation certainly seemed to be the case when you look at vol. 1 and the postponed vol. 2's contents (minus the two missing cartoons, of course). And we as collectors deserve the best possible release of this (and other) classic series. That means including every cartoon, uncut.
I do agree with you certainly, and of course I as much as anyone would like to see these cartoons complete on blu-ray. But I do have to question how some followers have reacted to the 'postponement', as if WB have flat-out lied about everything.

WB have been extremely clever in the way that they originally marketed the Golden Collection. They never explicitly said that all the shorts would be released, but as someone mentioned earlier, the 'Volume' title implies that the product would be part of a collection.
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:22 PM   #686
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I'm still holding out hope that this will get released. If the major studios are too gun shy or don't see enough profit in these releases it would be nice to see them licensed to a smaller company that would give them a proper release. Shout! Factory comes to mind. I'm waiting and willing to give them my cash for comprehensive Tom & Jerry as well as Looney Tunes collections.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:03 AM   #687
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I was watching Some of Warner's "Tex Avery's Droopy: The Complete Collection" DVD set this evening, and this is the exact disclaimer that pops up before the main menu even appears:

"The animated shorts you are about to see are a product of their time. They may depict some of the ethnic, sexist and racial prejudices that were commonplace in American society. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. While the following shorts do not represent the Warner Bros. view of today's society, these animated shorts are being presented as they were originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed."


My, how things have changed. I highlighted the last part because it's the key point here that so many have taken issue with regarding Tom and Jerry set 2 on blu-ray. I don't think Warner's world came crashing down on them for releasing Droopy uncut on DVD. And back then they claimed to actually have respect for the original shorts by presenting them uncut. Fast forward a few years and now all of us who just wanted Tom and Jerry to get the same treatment get bashed as if we're the problem, not Warner. Obviously things have changed at Warner since Droopy on DVD. There was a time when they did the right thing. All they had to do is put this at the beginning of Tom and Jerry and be done with it.
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Old 03-04-2014, 11:06 PM   #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mar3o View Post
I was watching Some of Warner's "Tex Avery's Droopy: The Complete Collection" DVD set this evening, and this is the exact disclaimer that pops up before the main menu even appears:

"The animated shorts you are about to see are a product of their time. They may depict some of the ethnic, sexist and racial prejudices that were commonplace in American society. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. While the following shorts do not represent the Warner Bros. view of today's society, these animated shorts are being presented as they were originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed."


My, how things have changed. I highlighted the last part because it's the key point here that so many have taken issue with regarding Tom and Jerry set 2 on blu-ray. I don't think Warner's world came crashing down on them for releasing Droopy uncut on DVD. And back then they claimed to actually have respect for the original shorts by presenting them uncut. Fast forward a few years and now all of us who just wanted Tom and Jerry to get the same treatment get bashed as if we're the problem, not Warner. Obviously things have changed at Warner since Droopy on DVD. There was a time when they did the right thing. All they had to do is put this at the beginning of Tom and Jerry and be done with it.

Exactly!
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:23 PM   #689
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Re: Jerry Beck on Stu's Show last night: From what it sounds like, this release sounds dead in the water unless one of two things occur:
A) Legal budges and allows "Casanova Cat" and "Mouse Cleaning"
B) WB releases the set as it was going to back in 2013, with the two banned cartoons skipped.

"A" will never happen, because there's apparently someone working in legal who is steadfastly refusing the release of "Casanova Cat" and "Mouse Cleaning".

And "B" will never happen, because if WB releases the Blu-ray set without the two shorts, fans will (understandably) be pissed again, and WB doesn't want to deal with more bad PR. Okay, maybe "never" is a bit extreme- it's a tiny bit more likely than "A", since WB basically had the set done and so it would feel like money wasted to them if they didn't release it at all. But there's still the bad PR thing they'd have to worry about.

So yeah, we have quite a conundrum.

Last edited by Boris S.; 03-13-2014 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:39 PM   #690
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****ing lawyers. **** them in their ****ing asses.
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Old 03-13-2014, 02:00 PM   #691
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At this point in time, I just want vol. 2. Let them keep their damned 2 shorts.

Take my money and get this over with.
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Old 03-13-2014, 02:07 PM   #692
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Would it really be the end of the world if this volume was released without those 2 shorts? It wouldn't bother me, I just want to see more Tom & Jerry on Blu-Ray.
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Old 03-13-2014, 05:01 PM   #693
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Yeah, let's just have it already. We won't get the shorts in question until the regime changes at Warners, so we've gotta chalk it down as a loss and move on; something is better than nothing.

The 'outraged' fans have made their voices heard already, so I don't think Warners would be afraid of a 'backlash' about the censorship - what's the worst that could happen? I don't think that the media will be all that concerned with us nerds protesting about not seeing old-timey racism in cartoons, what with the recent hoopla surrounding stuff like 12 Years A Slave.

Besides, most of us will probably have the two contentious 'toons in one form or another (like my 'Art of' laserdisc sets), so it's not like they've been erased from existence. And if something changes at Warners at a later date, they could offer a disc swap, a download or something along those lines.
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:06 PM   #694
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Maybe they should just release V2 without the 2 shorts (hear me out) and put those 2 shorts along with the Censored 11 and other banned shorts and do something with THAT in the future. My idea still stands; all Censored 11 and other banned shorts from Warner and MGM in one big collection and released exclusively at the TCM Shop.
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:17 PM   #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
something is better than nothing.
That's what I tried telling people. I warned people here to not go on this 1-star rampage as it wasn't productive. Nonetheless, you'll still have some "fans" here who'd rather have nothing than an "incomplete" set. Go figure.
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:32 PM   #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailwraps View Post
Maybe they should just release V2 without the 2 shorts (hear me out) and put those 2 shorts along with the Censored 11 and other banned shorts and do something with THAT in the future. My idea still stands; all Censored 11 and other banned shorts from Warner and MGM in one big collection and released exclusively at the TCM Shop.
An exclusive online release would be the best bet, because then there's no way in hell that a casual - i.e. easily offended - consumer could just stumble across it and get all het up.

But it's patently clear that the person(s) witholding the episodes has a lot of clout, so instead of holding on to the notion that we can somehow make it happen, we've gotta move on. For the longest time we never thought we'd get anything Blade Runner related, but things changed, stances softened, and now we've got more stuff than we could've dreamed of.

So let's put the issue to one side, give it a few years, and the two T&J shorts may well reappear; it's the right battle but the wrong time for it, given how small the market is for this sort of material on Blu-ray, because we don't want to send the message that we don't want them at all!
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:44 PM   #697
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This trend is another example of why PC people suck. If they have their way, no animated shows or films before 2000 would be released.
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:20 PM   #698
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I hate this kind of politically correct bullshit. Yes, there were stereotypes, but you can't simply erase an important part of animation history. I remember watching these cartoons as a kid on Cartoon Network, and now they can't even be released on a Blu-Ray set intended for adult collectors? I guess we should ban Dumbo too. Those crows could really offend somebody.
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:08 PM   #699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris S. View Post
Re: Jerry Beck on Stu's Show last night: From what it sounds like, this release sounds dead in the water unless one of two things occur:
A) Legal budges and allows "Casanova Cat" and "Mouse Cleaning"
B) WB releases the set as it was going to back in 2013, with the two banned cartoons skipped.

"A" will never happen, because there's apparently someone working in legal who is steadfastly refusing the release of "Casanova Cat" and "Mouse Cleaning".

And "B" will never happen, because if WB releases the Blu-ray set without the two shorts, fans will (understandably) be pissed again, and WB doesn't want to deal with more bad PR. Okay, maybe "never" is a bit extreme- it's a tiny bit more likely than "A", since WB basically had the set done and so it would feel like money wasted to them if they didn't release it at all. But there's still the bad PR thing they'd have to worry about.

So yeah, we have quite a conundrum.
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:11 PM   #700
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WB should release them with the two shorts included and if/when people start whining about the racism issue then WB can pull them and say they were put on there by mistake and then release an edited version.
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